Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 22 minutes ago, mymistake said: No, you were not. Poisoning the environment isn't helping. And you don't know what Knott's theological views are so you can't tell us his opinion. Or am I wrong and you two have known each other for decades and discussed theology in every detail? WHOOO was poisoning, End or the collective group... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 13 minutes ago, end3 said: WHOOO was poisoning, End or the collective group... It was you. In case you can't figure it out this place is called Ex Christian Net. It was created for the ex-Christians. "Look out, those terrible ex-Christians are minding their own business over at ex-Christian net and not bowing down or rolling over any time a Christian tries to save their souls! How rued of them!!!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 11 minutes ago, Ann said: Knowledge and understanding are two different things. I understand why christians believe...I was raised to believe, and believed wholeheartedly for 25 years, until knowledge of critical thinking, knowledge of lack of evidence.... that god was a made up concept. Science and evidence is not a concept...god is a concept. I reject the concept of god based on evidence. If science proves tomorrow there is a god, I will accept the proof and evidence given. E I think...don't want to speak for her....so correct me if I'm wrong please E.....wanted evidence. Belief does not require evidence...faith is a main component in christian belief is it not? Because of lack of evidence for faith based belief logical fallacies are required for said belief...logical fallacies "are often identified because they lack evidence that supports their claim." I do understand where Knott is coming from, I just don't agree with it. He can say what he wants....no one is stopping him from saying anything he wants. I can also say what I want, but try to back up what I have to say. If I cannot then it's my fault and I either accept that I cannot back up what I say and or change my view. And that has happened many times personally for me on this site. I don't get my feelings hurt by it. It's a good learning experience for me. From what I've read, objective reality is about as provable as God... If you want to live your life running concurrently with the knowledge base, then that's your choice certainly. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, end3 said: From what I've read, objective reality is about as provable as God... You need to make better reading choices. If objective reality didn't exist then schizophrenia would be the normal condition for everyone. So End3, are you derailing Knott's thread as a favor to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ann said: Were you not just complaining about the arrogance and rudeness of others on this thread? Interesting..... I was doing as I suggested...giving you something to think about.... i.e. researching objective reality... wasn’t trying to be rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 22 minutes ago, mymistake said: You need to make better reading choices. If objective reality didn't exist then schizophrenia would be the normal condition for everyone. So End3, are you derailing Knott's thread as a favor to him? You discount a soul obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, end3 said: You discount a soul obviously. In fact I do not believe in souls except as a metaphor. I'm a materialist. I think animation and consciousness arise from emerging properties of brains, which in turn, are completely material objects. Now tell me, why are you derailing Knott's thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted June 6, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 6, 2018 3 hours ago, end3 said: Knott, my brother, don't let them beat you down. They are going for the, "why did we not all have the same experience" mode...."your theology is different". One I have counseled them on several times.....that they each, as individuals, ignore. We aren't beating him down - he's doing a very good job of that himself. He has that most infuriating of Christian habits of not directly answering questions but instead going on doctrinal sermons. Perhaps as a fellow brother you could ask him to answer questions directly? Please and thank you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted June 6, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 6, 2018 47 minutes ago, end3 said: You discount a soul obviously. Do you have any evidence for a soul? If so all of us here would be most intrigued to see it. I guess we should start off by asking what do you call a soul. Also is it different from a spirit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knott Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 11 hours ago, Knott said: I believed in Christ in me. I was hung ho for the "relationship, not religion"7 bs. If I had found any evidence for Christ in me I would still believe If Christ did actually live in a believer, how do you suppose he could express himself ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 47 minutes ago, Knott said: If Christ did actually live in a believer, how do you suppose he could express himself ? I'm sorry but that sounds creepy. If it was somebody else, not Jesus, you would have the plot for a horror movie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 9 hours ago, sdelsolray said: Perhaps End3 can give Knott some lessons in how to compose more tasty word salads. *Offers a bottle of ranch dressing* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted June 7, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2018 On 5/25/2018 at 9:08 AM, Knott said: So what I'm curious about is: when you left whatever you left, was it because of all the man-made dogma junk, and being used like a piece of meat in structured religion. I was involved for 8 years, that and a mutitude of other things drove me nuts. 1 Hi Knott and Welcome to Ex-c. These are the reasons I left the christian god (and church) summed up in a letter I wrote to 'god' a few years ago when I joined. Hope it helps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knott Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 35 minutes ago, Margee said: Hi Knott and Welcome to Ex-c. These are the reasons I left the christian god (and church) summed up in a letter I wrote to 'god' a few years ago when I joined. Hope it helps. Thank you, very moving. I could feel the old pain coming back as you described your experience that I can relate to. I was basically in the same place having experienced religion. I don't think I want to get into it out in the open in here but will say. It's a nasty, horrible place to be, to me there is no greater evil than religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 18 minutes ago, Knott said: Thank you, very moving. I could feel the old pain coming back as you described your experience that I can relate to. I was basically in the same place having experienced religion. I don't think I want to get into it out in the open in here but will say. It's a nasty, horrible place to be, to me there is no greater evil than religion. .... do you guys REALLY take yourself seriously that you are not a religion??? This truly does show how limited your thinking process actually is! So the Pope is not a Catholic either! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Realist said: .... do you guys REALLY take yourself seriously that you are not a religion??? This truly does show how limited your thinking process actually is! So the Pope is not a Catholic either! re·li·gion rəˈlijən/ noun noun: religion the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. "ideas about the relationship between science and religion" synonyms: faith, belief, worship, creed; More sect, church, cult, denomination "the freedom to practice their own religion" a particular system of faith and worship. plural noun: religions "the world's great religions" (google.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Maybe he meant organized religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 58 minutes ago, midniterider said: Maybe he meant organized religion. Yeah, this is quite typical. When we get a Christian visitor, if they are part of a denomination then they think we are ex-Christians because we went to the wrong church that taught us the wrong theology. If they believe they "don't have a religion, have a relationship" then they think we are ex-Christians because man-made religion did us wrong. If they stopped attending church altogether then they think we are ex-Christians because church did us wrong. The Christian visitors always look to their own personal experience to explain away our existence. It could never be the reason ex-Christians give - that Christianity is empty and false - because Christianity could never be false. Nah, it's bad denominations, bad churches and bad man-made religion. Funny how an all-powerful God who can do anything and is birthed inside people in such a way that Jesus changes lives can't stop these petty little problems from driving people away from Christianity. Something something free will because reasons? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 hour ago, mymistake said: Yeah, this is quite typical. When we get a Christian visitor, if they are part of a denomination then they think we are ex-Christians because we went to the wrong church that taught us the wrong theology. If they believe they "don't have a religion, have a relationship" then they think we are ex-Christians because man-made religion did us wrong. If they stopped attending church altogether then they think we are ex-Christians because church did us wrong. The Christian visitors always look to their own personal experience to explain away our existence. It could never be the reason ex-Christians give - that Christianity is empty and false - because Christianity could never be false. Nah, it's bad denominations, bad churches and bad man-made religion. Funny how an all-powerful God who can do anything and is birthed inside people in such a way that Jesus changes lives can't stop these petty little problems from driving people away from Christianity. Something something free will because reasons? Upon baptism, Jesus takes up residence in a Pentecostal, a Catholic and a Baptist ... then tells them all conflicting doctrine. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Sugar coat it and call it a "relationship" or whatever they want to! It IS a RELIGION! FACT! The problem I have found, is that to argue with christians, their "beliefs" win over "facts" every time! Indoctrination is a very powerful tool! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted June 7, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2018 7 hours ago, Knott said: ...there is no greater evil than religion. Well we might actually agree on something... Which begs the question why are you religious? (Assuming Midnites definition holds true) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 ... so if "relationship" is what separates you from being a religion or religious ... maybe some muslims have a closer "relationship" with their god because they are prepared to kill themselves for him! They therefore must have the "true" relationship! Not your lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 31 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: (Assuming Midnites definition holds true) Plus every other noted dictionary I have ever looked in! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 17 hours ago, mymistake said: Yeah, this is quite typical. When we get a Christian visitor, if they are part of a denomination then they think we are ex-Christians because we went to the wrong church that taught us the wrong theology. If they believe they "don't have a religion, have a relationship" then they think we are ex-Christians because man-made religion did us wrong. If they stopped attending church altogether then they think we are ex-Christians because church did us wrong. The Christian visitors always look to their own personal experience to explain away our existence. It could never be the reason ex-Christians give - that Christianity is empty and false - because Christianity could never be false. Nah, it's bad denominations, bad churches and bad man-made religion. Funny how an all-powerful God who can do anything and is birthed inside people in such a way that Jesus changes lives can't stop these petty little problems from driving people away from Christianity. Something something free will because reasons? Well said. One would expect an omnipotent deity to be more powerful than mortal humans, but over and over again Christians indicate that such is not the case. Heck, mortal humans don't even need the old iron chariots (Judges 1:19) to overpower a supposedly all-powerful being. Amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 On 6/6/2018 at 2:46 PM, Knott said: I think what makes it hard to understand for people is it hasn't been readily discussed and looked at, not in religion anyway. It hasn't been readily discussed insomuch as you have failed to explain yourself or directly answer some of their questions. You just throw out little comments here and there that may make sense to you because you already know where you're coming from, but those comments do not explain in detail to others where you're coming from. The problem is your lousy communication abilities. By the way, did you bother to read the letter I wrote to my parents (which you had implied a while back that you would look at)? Just curious.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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