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On 6/6/2018 at 7:45 PM, Knott said:

 

If Christ did actually live in a believer, how do you suppose he could express himself ?

 

:jerkoff:

 

If a unicorn did actually exist, what do you supposed he'd look like? Once you've arrived at an answer, does speculating on that change that a unicorn does not exist?

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Having read through this thread, I think I would like to share a few thoughts that seem to be relevant to this discussion.   Christianity is essentially a prepackaged worldview. Its seems pl

Welcome to Ex-C.   To be clear, I am an Ex-Christian, not an Ex Church Goer. The congregation and pastor I was involved with were blameless and knew no better. The premise of the religion an

"I'm not perfect, I'm just forgiven ... you assholes!"   LoL      

Guest end3

Let's look at the Santa Clause analogy.  We gather that Santa was real and that he died.  And many of us, every December, return to that special feeling via songs, memories, etc. and share that "spirit" that perhaps was brought to us by that one dude. 

 

Is that real or not.

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And one can act religiously towards science....js....."we practice science religiously".  And for that matter, science is ultimately faith (MM), because everything is constantly dynamic.

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18 minutes ago, end3 said:

And one can act religiously towards science....js....."we practice science religiously".   

 

You just used an equivocation.  When you do that you are wrong.  That is why some people try to avoid equivocation.

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, end3 said:

And for that matter, science is ultimately faith (MM), because everything is constantly dynamic.

 

If you don't know what words mean then you should ask questions instead of making assertions.

 

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, end3 said:

Let's look at the Santa Clause analogy.  We gather that Santa was real and that he died.  And many of us, every December, return to that special feeling via songs, memories, etc. and share that "spirit" that perhaps was brought to us by that one dude. 

 

Is that real or not.

 

 

Just as real as Harry Potter.  Getting sentimental about a Coca-cola advertising campaign from 100 years ago has nothing to do with some guy who did a bit of charity work 300 years ago.

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On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 1:20 PM, end3 said:

On a personal note, I was triggered to respond to the arrogance here.

 

Don't conflate confidence with arrogance. They are not the same thing.

 

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Does Santa send people to hell like Jesus does? 

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8 minutes ago, Citsonga said:

 

Don't conflate confidence with arrogance. They are not the same thing.

 

 

 

Don't you know that arrogance is when people conclude that my imaginary friend is not real?  All these arrogant people don't realize just how wonderful and amazing and powerful and perfect I imagine my imaginary friend.

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41 minutes ago, mymistake said:

 

You just used an equivocation.  When you do that you are wrong.  That is why some people try to avoid equivocation.

See 3A ......  I brush my teeth religiously. 

41 minutes ago, mymistake said:

Definition of religious

1 : relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity
  • a religious person
  • religious attitudes
2 : of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances
  • joined a religious order
3 a : scrupulously and conscientiously faithful

 

 

 

If you don't know what words mean then you should ask questions instead of making assertions.

If you only had a brain...

 

41 minutes ago, mymistake said:

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, end3 said:

And one can act religiously towards science....js....."we practice science religiously".  And for that matter, science is ultimately faith (MM), because everything is constantly dynamic.

 

End, the only way you can get away with the claim is by specifying the difference between religious faith and mundane faith, they are not the same thing. Any argument trying to shoe horn religious faith into science will be shot down and revealed as mundane faith, at best. And what it actually is, is an going truth seeking process aimed at trying to figure out what's really going on, because we don't already know the answer. Religious books don't tell us the literal truth, and science can only provide a patch work of better answers that doesn't yet reveal reality in total. 

 

Yes one can act religious towards science, many christians who are scientists do just that. But they aren't religious about science, they're religious about pseudo science. 

 

The atheist's you might try and refer to will always come back to being mundane in their positive beliefs, not religious. 

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45 minutes ago, end3 said:

To the island of misfit toys....

 

Santa doesn't insist you love him either. Just be nice.

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54 minutes ago, end3 said:

See 3A ......  I brush my teeth religiously. 

 

You are equivocating.  You are using the meaning where "religious" is a metaphor for strict, regimented behavior and mixing that up for the meaning where "religious" is literally a belief system regarding the supernatural.  You are wrong.  Strict, regimented behavior is not a belief system about the supernatural.

 

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2 hours ago, end3 said:

Let's look at the Santa Clause analogy.  We gather that Santa was real and that he died.  And many of us, every December, return to that special feeling via songs, memories, etc. and share that "spirit" that perhaps was brought to us by that one dude. 

 

Is that real or not.

 

I don't think I could have picked a better analogy if I tried. You're strawmanning me a little, I never said Jesus did not exist, I talked about unicorns. I was using the analogy to demonstrate speculating on hypothetical somethings that have not been proven. 

 

If Jesus did exist, like Santa, than he was nothing more than a person that has become a legend since his death. Using your analogy, Santa is based on a person who did good deeds and was well liked/remembered. Somehow that became a fat, bearded, red-clad, ho-ho-ho decreeing, immortal being that lives in the North Pole and has elf slave labor to be able to cater to all the good little children, while keeping tabs on the naughty children. And somehow he carries ALL those gifts to everyone in a single night on a single sleigh carried by flying reindeer.

 

So yeah. Maybe Jesus was just a little carpenter with a couple magic tricks who wasn't the biggest asshole around and tried to help others not be assholes. The "resurrected, son of god, perfect being" part might be the legendary lies we're referring to.

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Heavenly Toothbrush, I come before you today. Please put a hedge of fluoride protection around my teeth. Let my gums be free from gingivitis. Give my breath a fresh minty flavor. In the name of the Crest, the Colgate and the holy Aquafresh I pray.

 

edit. Jesus Crest? Coincidence?

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2 hours ago, end3 said:

And one can act religiously towards science....js....."we practice science religiously".  And for that matter, science is ultimately faith (MM), because everything is constantly dynamic.

 

Knott says he's not religious, but he believes in Jesus. What say you? Is he religious?

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1 hour ago, end3 said:

I'm not, thanks.

 

Then what prompted you to make the false accusation?

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35 minutes ago, midniterider said:

Heavenly Toothbrush, I come before you today. Please put a hedge of fluoride protection around my teeth. Let my gums be free from gingivitis. Give my breath a fresh minty flavor. In the name of the Crest, the Colgate and the holy Aquafresh I pray.

 

edit. Jesus Crest? Coincidence?

 

I want the Father to be Arm & Hammer!

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35 minutes ago, midniterider said:

Heavenly Toothbrush, I come before you today. Please put a hedge of fluoride protection around my teeth. Let my gums be free from gingivitis. Give my breath a fresh minty flavor. In the name of the Crest, the Colgate and the holy Aquafresh I pray.

 

edit. Jesus Crest? Coincidence?

 

 

The best part about brushing your teeth religiously is that you get to spend eternity in heaven.  It's so much better than becoming a Christian.

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1 hour ago, ag_NO_stic said:

 

I don't think I could have picked a better analogy if I tried. You're strawmanning me a little, I never said Jesus did not exist, I talked about unicorns. I was using the analogy to demonstrate speculating on hypothetical somethings that have not been proven. 

 

If Jesus did exist, like Santa, than he was nothing more than a person that has become a legend since his death. Using your analogy, Santa is based on a person who did good deeds and was well liked/remembered. Somehow that became a fat, bearded, red-clad, ho-ho-ho decreeing, immortal being that lives in the North Pole and has elf slave labor to be able to cater to all the good little children, while keeping tabs on the naughty children. And somehow he carries ALL those gifts to everyone in a single night on a single sleigh carried by flying reindeer.

 

So yeah. Maybe Jesus was just a little carpenter with a couple magic tricks who wasn't the biggest asshole around and tried to help others not be assholes. The "resurrected, son of god, perfect being" part might be the legendary lies we're referring to.

 

I think it's a perfect analogy also.   We (most of us) believed in Santa when we were children.  In time we put away our childish ways and figured out (one way or another) that Santa wasn't real.   To continue believing in Santa would have been embarrassing to say the least.  But ohhhhhhhh---to have those feelings  (and gifts!) that the belief in Santa gave us.     Wait--we can have it!  Just believe in Jesus/God aka Santa-For-Adults.   No evidence, no logic necessary -- it's all about the feelings.

 

(edited for clarity)

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1 hour ago, mymistake said:

 

You are equivocating.  You are using the meaning where "religious" is a metaphor for strict, regimented behavior and mixing that up for the meaning where "religious" is literally a belief system regarding the supernatural.  You are wrong.  Strict, regimented behavior is not a belief system about the supernatural.

 

Look, when I came here, I made the same observation.....the avatars were set up according to member hierarchy......essentially parishioners, deacons, elders, etc.  Still is somewhat.  The point I think he is trying to make, and I agree, is that your beliefs and faith are now just in another camp whether you wish to admit that or not.  But let me make this clear.  I do understand that you are about to say that you change your beliefs according to the scientific understanding.  And my response to that, is how is that much different than a believer having a revelation.

 

 

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1 hour ago, midniterider said:

 

Knott says he's not religious, but he believes in Jesus. What say you? Is he religious?

 

1 hour ago, midniterider said:

 

Knott says he's not religious, but he believes in Jesus. What say you? Is he religious?

Per both our definitions, I would say he is religious according to his faith in Christ, but not as religious in conventional practice.

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6 minutes ago, end3 said:

Look, when I came here, I made the same observation.....the avatars were set up according to member hierarchy......essentially parishioners, deacons, elders, etc.  Still is somewhat.  The point I think he is trying to make, and I agree, is that your beliefs and faith are now just in another camp whether you wish to admit that or not.  But let me make this clear.  I do understand that you are about to say that you change your beliefs according to the scientific understanding.  And my response to that, is how is that much different than a believer having a revelation.

 

 

 

Christians: "I think what Jesus is trying to say, and I agree, is _______" 

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12 minutes ago, end3 said:

Look, when I came here, I made the same observation.....the avatars were set up according to member hierarchy......essentially parishioners, deacons, elders, etc.  Still is somewhat. 

 

You know that part is a joke, right?  Our profiles also have chess pieces on them.  That doesn't mean we worship chess.

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, end3 said:

The point I think he is trying to make, and I agree, is that your beliefs and faith are now just in another camp whether you wish to admit that or not.  But let me make this clear.  I do understand that you are about to say that you change your beliefs according to the scientific understanding.  And my response to that, is how is that much different than a believer having a revelation.

 

Words matter.  I change my beliefs according to logic and objective evidence.  That is the opposite of ignoring logic and evidence to follow a revelation.  They are opposites.

 

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