It just didn't add up

[lfthndthrds]

I stumbled onto this site a few months back while researching for some data about wealth of some mega pastors for a friend of mine. One in particular was Lee Strobel "the case for Christ" because a coworker had bought me he book in hopes of wooing me back into the church. Anyway, seems Mr. Strobel made a lot of money off a book and movie deal.

 

I was raised Catholic and by the time I graduated high school, I'd abandoned it for obvious reasons. I married young and had a couple of kids early on and for some reason I decided to take the family to church, maybe out of the guilt I learned early on? So, I got involved in a non-denominational church and within a few years I began to  question a lot of things about scripture. I guess it was because growing up in the catholic church I never actually read the bible. This soon became a problem. 5-6 years in I couldn't do it anymore. I was in a terrible marriage that I desperately wanted out of, I didn't believe the scriptures and I was sick and tired of the control within the church. I knew nothing short of a clean break would work so that's exactly what I did. That was in 2001. To this day there was only one person from the church who would ever speak to me again. It was the best thing I could have done.

 

I got out of the marriage that was riddled with infidelity on her part, I raised my kids and I remarried someone I love. The only mistake I made was thinking that the church would help my failing marriage by jumping into that mess.

 

This is a great site for people trying to reclaim their lives, I can see where It would have helped a lot had I been able to find it back in 2001 but all is good.

 

 

[mymistake]

Welcome to ex-C!

[Joshpantera]

Welcome aboard! Coonass country, eh? 

[sdelsolray]

3 hours ago, lfthndthrds said:

I stumbled onto this site a few months back while researching for some data about wealth of some mega pastors for a friend of mine. One in particular was Lee Strobel "the case for Christ" because a coworker had bought me he book in hopes of wooing me back into the church. Anyway, seems Mr. Strobel made a lot of money off a book and movie deal.

 

I was raised Catholic and by the time I graduated high school, I'd abandoned it for obvious reasons. I married young and had a couple of kids early on and for some reason I decided to take the family to church, maybe out of the guilt I learned early on? So, I got involved in a non-denominational church and within a few years I began to  question a lot of things about scripture. I guess it was because growing up in the catholic church I never actually read the bible. This soon became a problem. 5-6 years in I couldn't do it anymore. I was in a terrible marriage that I desperately wanted out of, I didn't believe the scriptures and I was sick and tired of the control within the church. I knew nothing short of a clean break would work so that's exactly what I did. That was in 2001. To this day there was only one person from the church who would ever speak to me again. It was the best thing I could have done.

 

I got out of the marriage that was riddled with infidelity on her part, I raised my kids and I remarried someone I love. The only mistake I made was thinking that the church would help my failing marriage by jumping into that mess.

 

This is a great site for people trying to reclaim their lives, I can see where It would have helped a lot had I been able to find it back in 2001 but all is good.

 

 

 

If you have not already done so, you may wish to read "The Case Against the Case for Christ" by Robert M. Price.  It's a rather good read (accessible, plain speaking) and addresses Strobel's "The Case for Christ" chapter by chapter identifying the lies, misrepresentations, and logical fallacies that Strobel is so good at inventing.

 

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8124168-the-case-against-the-case-for-christ

 

 

 

[disillusioned]

Glad you're in a better place now, and glad that you're here. Welcome!

[MOHO]

Welcome, @lfthndthrds

 

I notice one of your interests is "occult studies". Do cults make sense to you where xanity does not? Are you including xanity in those studies? Good topics for posts in other sections I recon. 

[lfthndthrds]

"I notice one of your interests is "occult studies". Do cults make sense to you where xanity does not? Are you including xanity in those studies? Good topics for posts in other sections I recon. "

~ MOHO

 

I guess the sense it makes to me is that "there's nothing new under the sun" M.P. Hall "Secret Teachings of All Ages" , HP Blatvasky "The Secret Doctrine just to name a couple, give lots of insight into where most of the Bible actually comes from. Most of the bible comes from ancient teachings of pagan religion and Astrological knowledge of the ancients. One of the more simple things to see is that Jesus was actually the Sun not the Son. Sun worship was incorporated into the new testament and personified with the character, Jesus. I have no god that I worship, I just find it interesting to study where all that came from.  

[lfthndthrds]

Thanks for the welcomes everyone.

[Joshpantera]

57 minutes ago, lfthndthrds said:

"I notice one of your interests is "occult studies". Do cults make sense to you where xanity does not? Are you including xanity in those studies? Good topics for posts in other sections I recon. "

~ MOHO

 

I guess the sense it makes to me is that "there's nothing new under the sun" M.P. Hall "Secret Teachings of All Ages" , HP Blatvasky "The Secret Doctrine just to name a couple, give lots of insight into where most of the Bible actually comes from. Most of the bible comes from ancient teachings of pagan religion and Astrological knowledge of the ancients. One of the more simple things to see is that Jesus was actually the Sun not the Son. Sun worship was incorporated into the new testament and personified with the character, Jesus. I have no god that I worship, I just find it interesting to study where all that came from.  

 

I have the same material on my book shelf. It's part of studying comparative world religion, the esoteric side. You'll do well here because a large number of us are sympathetic to the mythicist arguments, which, of course delve into solar worship and other areas of concern. 

 

 

[lfthndthrds]

"I have the same material on my book shelf"

~ Joshpantera

 

I'm only a couple of years into the studies but I'm always hungry for knowledge. The book that really got me started was "How to Understand Your Bible" by M.P. Hall.

[Geezer]

Leaving Xianity is a little bit like finding a tiny crack in a dam. It tends to get bigger and bigger. A small leak slowly becomes a big leak and then one day that small leak has become a major problem that cannot be fixed. That small leak eventually destroys the dam. 

 

Welcome to the site of the free and the home of the very brave. 

[Riven]

Welcome! I'm new to posting here, although I've read the forums here for years. Even when I still considered myself a Christian. I think I found this site when I was Googling the latest thing I was pissed about in Christianity.

 

I read a post the other day where @sdelsolray recommended the book by Price. I've ordered it. I used to invite unsuspecting friends over (back in the day) and talk them into viewing Lee Strobel's movie. I thought it was an airtight case for Christ!

 

Anyhow, welcome, and hope to see you on the boards!

[lfthndthrds]

1 hour ago, Riven said:

Welcome! I'm new to posting here, although I've read the forums here for years. Even when I still considered myself a Christian. I think I found this site when I was Googling the latest thing I was pissed about in Christianity.

 

I read a post the other day where @sdelsolray recommended the book by Price. I've ordered it. I used to invite unsuspecting friends over (back in the day) and talk them into viewing Lee Strobel's movie. I thought it was an airtight case for Christ!

 

Anyhow, welcome, and hope to see you on the boards!

Thanks for the welcome. I intend to get the book myself. I looked it up on ibooks but all they have is the audio book. I like to read it better.

[◊ DestinyTurtle ◊]

Welcome to X-Christian! Oh yeah I read "Case for Christ" back when I was a teenager and my parents wanted me to be impressed by the amount of supposed evidence there was for Christianity. The book was so badly argued that it actually instilled a great sense of doubt in me... even though I was a Christian during the time in which I read it. If there was a shred of substantial evidence why would Christians resort to a mish-mash of shoddy interviews, misinterpretations, and terrible logic to make their crowning case? 

[SeanClouse]

15 hours ago, DestinyTurtle said:

Welcome to X-Christian! Oh yeah I read "Case for Christ" back when I was a teenager and my parents wanted me to be impressed by the amount of supposed evidence there was for Christianity. The book was so badly argued that it actually instilled a great sense of doubt in me... even though I was a Christian during the time in which I read it. If there was a shred of substantial evidence why would Christians resort to a mish-mash of shoddy interviews, misinterpretations, and terrible logic to make their crowning case? 

I agree. I read the book as I was deeply questioning Christianity and it helped push me on out the door. The supposed evidence was so weak that it merely proved it was all a scam. I'm so glad to be thinking clearly...

[Lerk]

On 6/10/2018 at 4:32 PM, DestinyTurtle said:

Welcome to X-Christian! Oh yeah I read "Case for Christ" back when I was a teenager and my parents wanted me to be impressed by the amount of supposed evidence there was for Christianity. The book was so badly argued that it actually instilled a great sense of doubt in me... even though I was a Christian during the time in which I read it. If there was a shred of substantial evidence why would Christians resort to a mish-mash of shoddy interviews, misinterpretations, and terrible logic to make their crowning case? 

 

I didn't read "The Case for Christ" until I had deconverted. Part of my "due diligence" I suppose. My impression was that he must have been a terrible reporter! He says he was an atheist, yet he only interviewed believers. I didn't believe him... he either was, or desperately wanted to be, a believer. And the writing was like bad fiction! He mentions some look of facial expression of the person he's interviewing in every single paragraph! Terrible drama!

 

I quit reading in the chapter where he mis-quotes the inscription on the arch at Miami University. If he can't even get that right (he mis-quotes it twice in the same chapter) then how can I believe that the quotes from his interviews are accurate, or that he was even paying attention. He seems to have used audio equipment to record the interviews, yet he imagines them pausing before they sit down, or glancing at him with a twinkle in their eye before answering his question. Right, sure thing Lee. You're making shit up.

[◊ DestinyTurtle ◊]

On 6/21/2018 at 3:02 PM, Lerk said:

 

I didn't read "The Case for Christ" until I had deconverted. Part of my "due diligence" I suppose. My impression was that he must have been a terrible reporter! He says he was an atheist, yet he only interviewed believers. I didn't believe him... he either was, or desperately wanted to be, a believer. And the writing was like bad fiction! He mentions some look of facial expression of the person he's interviewing in every single paragraph! Terrible drama!

 

I quit reading in the chapter where he mis-quotes the inscription on the arch at Miami University. If he can't even get that right (he mis-quotes it twice in the same chapter) then how can I believe that the quotes from his interviews are accurate, or that he was even paying attention. He seems to have used audio equipment to record the interviews, yet he imagines them pausing before they sit down, or glancing at him with a twinkle in their eye before answering his question. Right, sure thing Lee. You're making shit up.

Yeah, no kidding. I remember one part where he purports to calculate the probability of Jesus's miracles not being a miracle. What the calculation is doing, if you can even call it that, is that *assuming* all the miracles happened the way they were described in the bible, literally, what the probability that they happened due to random occurrence. It is an extremely stupid thing to speculate as what's being debated is whether the biblical accounts of the miracles happened at all, *not* whether or not it's miraculous if you pre-assume that it happened! Of course this didn't occur or bother to him and he pursued as though he had proven that all the miracles were true. What a sack full of sh*t that whole argument was.