Another Rant... Republianity.

[Riven]

When I first became a Christian, I was already an adult. One of the first things I was taught, was that we prayed for the president, no matter what the party affiliation. I can remember getting handed those, "Voter Guides" that I eventually realized had candidates from just one party. But aside from that, the takeaway was: The Bible tells us to pray for those in authority. As a new believer, wanting to follow what god said and take it seriously, I did so. I was one of those "all in" believers that took the bible seriously, and believed I should try to the best of my ability to follow it. And yet, during the eight years of Obama's presidency, my email inbox and Facebook feed was filled with Obama hatred. Jokes and memes of the most vile kind. I almost didn't survive the last election. 

 

One side note: I can get along with people of any political persuasion. I have friends that are Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Independent, Green Party, and so on. My issue is not with politics, my issue is with those who call themselves Christians, and then proceed to slander those they disagree with, in the most vile ways. (By the way Christians, slander is a no-no according to your god -- Psalm 101:5 and 1 Peter 2:1, Ephesians 4:31-31 to name a few.) But modern day Christians don't care with the word of their god says if it's inconvenient for them. Uunless it is to judge another with it. They largely ignore verses and teachings that touch any part of the way they want live their lives.

 

So, moving on. The vast majority of these hate-filed, mocking memes I've had to endure are posted by my believer friends. How do I know this? As a good little evangelical Christian for 25 years, I was properly indoctrinated to associate only with my own kind. Therefore, 99% of my Facebook friends are evangelical. (At least they were at the time of my deconversion starting.) Evey time I saw this selective enforcement by my Christian friends, following only the rules they want to follow, it chipped away at me. They felt completely "justified" because they have "truth on their side" and that somehow invalidated how Jesus taught they should treat others.

 

We have tried to raise our son to not "hate one party over the other" but instead to think critically about issues and make decisions based on thoughtful reflection. Most of all, when we were still believers, we taught him respect for the office, and to pray for who is there, regardless of party. The Bible actually has a specific verse for this,  but again, Evangelical America selectively ignores what they don't want to do. 

 

Evidently, this measured approached was not appreciated in my son's youth group at the time, because he got "called out" for responding in reasonable and measured tones when some Obama hatred conversation was happening. (He was just 11 years old and already being subjected to the idea that if you don't conform to Evangelical “group think”, then you are rejected!) I'm not sure when being a Republican became a litmus test for proper Christianity, but I see and encounter this regularly. This was another reason we got out. I wasn't sure what scared me more: That my boy would be singled out for holding reasonable views, or that he would succumb to peer pressure and become like them.

Let’s move on to Boy Scouts. No fewer than five of my Christian friends knew my son has joined, have had the following reaction (as either the first or second sentence out of their mouths):

 

"Aren't you worried about the homosexual thing?" 

 

I have LITERALLY had to reassure them that, "No, I don't think there's any worry there." It's pedophiles we should be worried about, NOT gay men. Because, THIS IS HOW THEY THINK.

 

For years I watched the subtle judging and shaming that goes on in Evangelical church culture. There is an "us/them" mentality that has become more and more prevalent. The silent judgment and not-so-subtle ostracizing of those whose political beliefs are different. The very subtle way they say, "We love you as a lost sinner, but once you become one of us, either you change or you're out of the club".  So the "unofficial list" of everything we can't talk about, be involved in, or like, if we are Christians, grows ever longer. Christians: For the record, judgment is a very bad evangelism strategy.

There were so many unofficial "litmus" tests to jump through. You learn early on that you don't ask certain questions, even if they are questions that stem from a true desire to understand. 

 

Back when I was a new Christian, spending a lot of time in the Bible, I did have some questions. Some things didn't make sense, some chapters seemingly contradicted other chapters, or events. I just wanted to ask someone to help me understand. I learned many, many years later that I had unintentionally bumped right up against the "inerrancy" doctrine of the Bible, and how we should never point out any flaws. (I believe the "inerrancy" thought is relatively new -- 19th Century?)

 

You get branded as a "troublemaker" if you continue to ask questions, so you are shamed into silence. The litmus tests I've encountered are:

• You must vote republican, or you are voting for murder (abortion).  This was literally said to me.
• If I'm not a "one issue" voter, I can't be a Christian.
• If I believe in man-made global warming, I'm clearly not in the fold, or worse, a liberal.
• Social justice. If I'm "for" helping the least of these, I'm clearly a liberal. (Ignoring all of the scriptures on this exact mandate to help those less fortunate.)

 

Ironically, the Christian/Republican dogma of "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" with no help from the government rings amazingly true to Darwinian "survival of the fittest." I digress.

 

I have actually seen in the 25 years that I was a Christian, it go from "following the teachings of Jesus" when I help the poor, to "being a liberal." Seriously. 

 

Social justice issues used to be a ministry option, now it's a dirty liberal word. Or worse, Democrat! Helping the homeless in some church circles is considered "controversial!" I actually overheard a pastor in my own church refer to "those people" with disgust when discussing “the problem” that there are "more and more of them" in our town.

 

Then the endorsement of Donald Trump by Jerry Falwell, Jr. happened. One became the front-runner of the Republican Party and the other was hailed with applause in the largest Christian college in America.  Mic drop. The beginning of the end for me.

 

And the silence has been deafening in Evangelical America. These preachers of hateful, xenophobic rhetoric are the only voices doing the talking. Of course mainline Christian pastors are talking, but as Franklin Graham recently said in his ridiculous "tour" to "save California" recently said, those in mainline Christian denominations are, "godless." His words! So now evangelicals are attacking any form of Christianity that doesn't mirror their echo-chamber truths. The bile is backing up in my throat just typing that.

 

And I see the evangelical Christian churches falling in line with messages of nationalism over the teachings of Christ. Ignoring inconvenient teachings about enemy love, and instead proof texting bible verses, going to war against any other believer that sees it differently. Guns, borders, walls, immigrants --- are all political wars that have been brought right into the church.  And the church wonders why there's a mass exodus. And the the fully indoctrinated continue to point out that those who fall away because of what "man" does, were probably never believers! Well, some of us fall away because we've bothered to study the bible critically and we're sickened by what the church has become. But that doesn't fit into your neatly tied little package of conditional grace and love, does it?

 

My question is this: How can you Christians show the love of Jesus to all people, when that love has become so conditional? So politically entangled? When you've become more known for what you are against?

Culture wars. Christmas wars. Offended at every turn. I spent more time undoing damage done by Christians when I used to talk to a non-believer than I did actually showing the love of Christ (when that was my thing). How is a dying and hurting world expected to believe Jesus loves them, when his followers clearly don't? And they are blind to their own hypocrisy!

 

The church has always seen itself as counter cultural. Yet somehow American Christians think that conforming American culture to the church is an assignment straight from God Himself. We are just over 200 years old as a nation. 2000 years ago the early church did not think this way and a cultural takeover (or take back) is not a biblical mandate, although I'm sure plenty of evangelicals would argue that.  You see yourselves as "being persecuted" simply because Christianity is no longer holding the same privileged position is has for so much of our country's history. Your solution? Legislate us back into the 1950s. No thank you.

 

I've seen gay and transgendered people run out of churches. Why? Because they continue to live in "sin?" Because they "chose" that "lifestyle?" (I hate that phrase.) I have news for you. Everyone's got something they are dealing with in the "shit they need to deal with" category. INCLUDING YOU, CHRISTIAN. Every single one of you ought to think about that. Because that is conditional love.  What happened to "come all ye who are weary and I will give you rest?"  I know, I know, you have a thousand doctrinally sound reasons why people who continue to "sin" can't stay in your church. My only point is that if you could actually enforce the idea, with 100% accuracy, that those who are sinning (according to you) without repentance are not welcome in your congregation, your church would have to shut its doors due to lack of attendance. Starting with all the so-called Christians slandering others with impunity on social media.

 

American Evangelical Christianity has become so wrapped up in nationalism that I barely recognize it anymore. Republianity. What happened to "this world is not my home" and that we are foreigners here?  Political views have been elevated to the level of theology. Can anyone really say that a culture war to "take back the United States" is advancing the cause of Christ? It's not. It's repelling people. 

 

I've seen this a lot, given that most of the ministries I have spent my 25 years in the church in are "front line" where I had a high degree of contact with non-believers.  For years, the conversations have gone something like this: "Wow, I would go to church if more people were like you..." Then they tell a story of being judged and condemned by someone who called themselves a Christian. 

 

What they are really saying is, "unconditional love is shocking, I want more." Christ could have not been more clear when he talked about this. In fact, I see more unconditional love, or acceptance, by those who hold no beliefs at all. Including my new friends here at Ex-C.

 

I realize I'm not talking about all churches or even all the people in my own former church. I won't paint all evangelical Christians with the same broad brush I see them using against those who don't believe as they do.  But these issues, along with a multitude of problem areas in the Bible itself, plus the disingenuous way that pastors preach from it, have repelled me out of that system.

Good riddance, Republianity.

 

[sdelsolray]

Good rant.  

 

Many strains of the Christian God Virus are quite virulent and infect the believer with all sorts of nonsense, including immoral behavior, selfishness, hate, bigotry and willful ignorance.  Many Evangelical sects are like this.  Members tend to be boring, creepy, xenophobic and disingenuous, among other cheesy traits.

 

I choose to ignore them.  Fortunately, there are better people to spend time with and more interesting things to do instead.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Wow, great rant!

 

Someone on my FB feed wrote this today:

 

"Biblical history shows when a land or a country does not give God 
Honor and Glory.(And choose sin over all) God gives them bad leaders.(Read your bible)

When a president is birthed "only by God into a country". God places a mantle on them.(His tangible approval )
People at first will not like the righteous changes They make.(They like sin and darkness ) 
Donald Trump is the placement of God for America. He is not perfect (But God never picks perfect people to do his business "Never)
I see a great change going on in this country and it started with hearts of the people toward God the Father.
God is saying enough.

Let's make America God Great Again

As we love God and are country. And are president. God will lead us. And shine His blessing upon us. 
From the Church House to the White House."

 

 

[mymistake]

Good rant.  My whole family vote only one way because of Jesus.  I can totally relate.

 

 

Just one minor thing:  You were thinking of social darwinism.  Social darwinism has nothing to do with Charles Darwin or "survival of the fittest".  By unfortunate coincidence they share a similar name but that is about it.  In the science of evolution human success is explained through our cooperation.  In contrast social darwinism is just a cover story for a hate group.

 

 

But again, great rant.  You totally nailed it about the dangers of mixing religion and politics.

[Tsathoggua9]

2 hours ago, ficino said:

Wow, great rant!

 

Someone on my FB feed wrote this today:

 

"Biblical history shows when a land or a country does not give God 
Honor and Glory.(And choose sin over all) God gives them bad leaders.(Read your bible)

When a president is birthed "only by God into a country". God places a mantle on them.(His tangible approval )
People at first will not like the righteous changes They make.(They like sin and darkness ) 
Donald Trump is the placement of God for America. He is not perfect (But God never picks perfect people to do his business "Never)
I see a great change going on in this country and it started with hearts of the people toward God the Father.
God is saying enough.

Let's make America God Great Again

As we love God and are country. And are president. God will lead us. And shine His blessing upon us. 
From the Church House to the White House."

 

 

 

Well, all I can say to this is -- "YUCK!!"

 

Yeah, I know, I should strive to be a bit more articulate....

[midniterider]

3 hours ago, ficino said:

Wow, great rant!

 

Someone on my FB feed wrote this today:

 

"Biblical history shows when a land or a country does not give God 
Honor and Glory.(And choose sin over all) God gives them bad leaders.(Read your bible)

When a president is birthed "only by God into a country". God places a mantle on them.(His tangible approval )
People at first will not like the righteous changes They make.(They like sin and darkness ) 
Donald Trump is the placement of God for America. He is not perfect (But God never picks perfect people to do his business "Never)
I see a great change going on in this country and it started with hearts of the people toward God the Father.
God is saying enough.

Let's make America God Great Again

As we love God and are country. And are president. God will lead us. And shine His blessing upon us. 
From the Church House to the White House."

 

 

 

So everyone started believing in Jesus around Nov 2016?

[midniterider]

I became a Republican (you know, checked the GOP box at the voter's registrar office) while Christian, but still voted for the democrats. lol.

[Riven]

15 hours ago, sdelsolray said:

Good rant.  

 

Many strains of the Christian God Virus are quite virulent and infect the believer with all sorts of nonsense, including immoral behavior, selfishness, hate, bigotry and willful ignorance.  Many Evangelical sects are like this.  Members tend to be boring, creepy, xenophobic and disingenuous, among other cheesy traits.

 

I choose to ignore them.  Fortunately, there are better people to spend time with and more interesting things to do instead.

 

Thanks, @sdelsolray. I'm still expecting to get in trouble for posting something like this. I was literally afraid to look at comments. I have a ways to go in healing.

 

I aspire to getting to the "ignore" stage. Right now, I'm processing and mad as hell! (Oops... don't believe in that!) 

[Riven]

3 hours ago, ficino said:

Wow, great rant!

 

Someone on my FB feed wrote this today:

 

"Biblical history shows when a land or a country does not give God 
Honor and Glory.(And choose sin over all) God gives them bad leaders.(Read your bible)

When a president is birthed "only by God into a country". God places a mantle on them.(His tangible approval )
People at first will not like the righteous changes They make.(They like sin and darkness ) 
Donald Trump is the placement of God for America. He is not perfect (But God never picks perfect people to do his business "Never)
I see a great change going on in this country and it started with hearts of the people toward God the Father.
God is saying enough.

Let's make America God Great Again

As we love God and are country. And are president. God will lead us. And shine His blessing upon us. 
From the Church House to the White House."

 

 

 

It's this rhetoric that was the final nail in the coffin for me. The crazy thing is that not only have the talking heads from that party all been repeating those same talking points, but so has the church, and now the congregants. Shallow theology for shallow people. In 25 years it went from, "pick the most godly man in the race" for our voting, to "everyone makes mistakes, looks at "x" (insert name) from the Bible." Really? So, I guess they'll be changing who can serve in leadership or be pastor, right? No? Such hypocrisy.  This is the church and everyone in it saying the the ends justify the means. I'm not sure where that Biblical principle is.

[sdelsolray]

9 minutes ago, Riven said:

 

Thanks, @sdelsolray. I'm still expecting to get in trouble for posting something like this. I was literally afraid to look at comments. I have a ways to go in healing.

 

I aspire to getting to the "ignore" stage. Right now, I'm processing and mad as hell! (Oops... don't believe in that!) 

 

You're doing quite well.

[Riven]

35 minutes ago, midniterider said:

I became a Republican (you know, checked the GOP box at the voter's registrar office) while Christian, but still voted for the democrats. lol.

 

Me too. I registered Republican when I was 18 because that's what my parents had raised me to think.  However, after a number of years, I began to vote for the issue or the person, not the party. Finally, I registered Independent. It was more of less symbolic at that point, since I'd been voting how I wanted for years, but by that time, I was sick of the church trying to tell me how to vote.

 

By the way, I like your link to the characteristics of skeptics vs. pseudo skeptics!

[Riven]

2 hours ago, mymistake said:

Good rant.  My whole family vote only one way because of Jesus.  I can totally relate.

 

 

Just one minor thing:  You were thinking of social darwinism.  Social darwinism has nothing to do with Charles Darwin or "survival of the fittest".  By unfortunate coincidence they share a similar name but that is about it.  In the science of evolution human success is explained through our cooperation.  In contrast social darwinism is just a cover story for a hate group.

 

 

But again, great rant.  You totally nailed it about the dangers of mixing religion and politics.

 

Thanks, @mymistake for that clarification. I guess I didn't realize that. I'll have to look into the origins of that phrase -- I didn't realize it was a hate group!

[MOHO]

It has been my personal experience that this group think that @Riven wrote of occurs in all walks of life - from evangelical circles, to political think tanks (Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Green, Blue, Red, Yellow), to corporate board rooms, to Saturday morning bicycle clubs. 

 

Even amongst former Christians and Atheists the propensity to bash a certain political party and/or political doctrine is a manifestation of this.

[MOHO]

3 minutes ago, Ann said:

I don't know exactly when it became Republican = christian.

 

At some point, decades ago, the religious right (not necessarily all of xianity) hijacked the Republican party - just as SJW's hijacked the Democrat party. 

 

The focus used to be on how much government you wanted in you life. Now it seems to be about WHERE you want your government - not how much. 

[Riven]

1 hour ago, MOHO said:

It has been my personal experience that this group think that @Riven wrote of occurs in all walks of life - from evangelical circles, to political think tanks (Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Green, Blue, Red, Yellow), to corporate board rooms, to Saturday morning bicycle clubs. 

 

Even amongst former Christians and Atheists the propensity to bash a certain political party and/or political doctrine is a manifestation of this.

 

I would absolutely agree with this. I've definitely seen and experienced this in many group situations. I have to say that I personally don't like it from any "side." When my husband and I started attending the United Methodist church (I am supporting his continued belief, and he is supporting my stipulation that I would not attend a church with him that wasn't open and affirming), I noticed their tendency to talk the same way about the "other Christians" (read: Evangelical Republicans). I don't like that either. It's a personal decision, but I don't want to engage on that level. Of course here, on Ex-C, I will admit I'm blowing off a lot of pent up, held in steam from years and years, however, my issue is entirely about evangelical hypocrisy and how they express themselves on social media to those with whom they disagree. If you claim that the bible is "all true, every word," then slandering is not something god allows you to do. I'm all for open, respectful debate about differences, but unfortunately, those experiences are the exception with evangelicals in social media, not the rule.

 

23 minutes ago, Ann said:

Well said!

I don't know exactly when it became Republican = christian.   I graduated high school in 1989. My parents sent me to a "christian camp" in Colorado Springs for my graduation present....thanks a lot assholes! Anyway the two weeks I spent there the leaders of the camp were very clear that to be a good christian you must be Republican...really some John Birch Society shit mixed with christianity. They were unapologetic about their goal of making young adults into political warriors for jesus and encouraged the youth to get involved with the right kind of politics because that is in line with god. I think since the Ronald Regan days the christian powers that be have succeeded in blending right wing politics with christianity. That's just a guess. Anyone know how this kind of thinking got started? Has it always been there and I just started to notice when I was becoming an adult?

 

Ann, I think that it was the Moral Majority, starting in 1969 or 1970 by Jerry Falwell, but think it may go back further. I had an article bookmarked about it, but I can't find it. However, there was a recent article in Forbes that is closely related to this that I recently read (and saved). It's long, but well worth the read , if one is interested.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisladd/2017/03/27/pastors-not-politicians-turned-dixie-republican/#3f018c06695f

[MOHO]

1 hour ago, Riven said:

Of course here, on Ex-C, I will admit I'm blowing off a lot of pent up, held in steam from years and years, however, my issue is entirely about evangelical hypocrisy and how they express themselves on social media to those with whom they disagree

 

I fully empathise with you, @Riven

 

I live with these people. 

[TABA]

2 hours ago, MOHO said:

 

At some point, decades ago, the religious right (not necessarily all of xianity) hijacked the Republican party - just as SJW's hijacked the Democrat party. 

 

The focus used to be on how much government you wanted in you life. Now it seems to be about WHERE you want your government - not how much. 

 

Exactly. 

 

[Questioner]

Riven - this is a great rant.  You hit all the points and wrote it so clearly.  Good job!

[MOHO]

8 minutes ago, Questioner said:

Riven - this is a great rant.  You hit all the points and wrote it so clearly.  Good job!

 

HEEEEEEEEEEY!

 

knock it off, @Questioner!

The rest of us are trying to hijack this thread, dammit!  

 

Great job on the thread, @Riven

[Riven]

48 minutes ago, MOHO said:

 

I fully empathise with you, @Riven

 

I live with these people. 

 

Oh man.... you have my full empathy as well. I am fortunate in that my husband is OK with my conclusions. The Christian extremist wing of my family is a few states away, so I only need to deal with it during holidays. 

 

8 minutes ago, Questioner said:

Riven - this is a great rant.  You hit all the points and wrote it so clearly.  Good job!

 

Thanks! It had a few decades to think about it.

[buffettphan]

3 hours ago, Ann said:

 

They were unapologetic about their goal of making young adults into political warriors for jesus and encouraged the youth to get involved with the right kind of politics because that is in line with god. I think since the Ronald Regan days the christian powers that be have succeeded in blending right wing politics with christianity. That's just a guess. Anyone know how this kind of thinking got started? Has it always been there and I just started to notice when I was becoming an adult?

 

BINGO!  Check out "Dominionism, " "Christian Reconstructionism," and "Theonomy."  Also, the documentary Silhouette City which came out about 10 years ago, gives an eye-opening (and kind of frightening!) history on the subject.      https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1259226/      It's been a while since I last watched it, but near the end, they list names of many of the prominent people in the movement.  Remembering the movie was made more than 10 years ago and seeing the list now will make your skin crawl at their success in infiltrating jeeeesus into American politics and law.   As much as I abhor Islam and its radicals, good ol' home grown Christian Fundamentalists are much more dangerous to America at the present time.

[Joshpantera]

5 hours ago, Riven said:

 

Me too. I registered Republican when I was 18 because that's what my parents had raised me to think.  However, after a number of years, I began to vote for the issue or the person, not the party. Finally, I registered Independent. It was more of less symbolic at that point, since I'd been voting how I wanted for years, but by that time, I was sick of the church trying to tell me how to vote.

 

By the way, I like your link to the characteristics of skeptics vs. pseudo skeptics!

 

I did the same. There's actually very few republican deconverts. Mostly libertarians, either conservative or liberal libertarians. I don't think you'd experience a big fall out for posting this rant. 

[MOHO]

18 minutes ago, buffettphan said:

 

BINGO!  Check out "Dominionism, " "Christian Reconstructionism," and "Theonomy."  Also, the documentary Silhouette City which came out about 10 years ago, gives an eye-opening (and kind of frightening!) history on the subject.      https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1259226/      It's been a while since I last watched it, but near the end, they list names of many of the prominent people in the movement.  Remembering the movie was made more than 10 years ago and seeing the list now will make your skin crawl at their success in infiltrating jeeeesus into American politics and law.   As much as I abhor Islam and its radicals, good ol' home grown Christian Fundamentalists are much more dangerous to America at the present time.

 

What's happening in current events (in America - not Ex-C) really is scary. We have a president (love him or loathe him) who is using religion as tool to grab power. Not to just to kinda pander a little or make sure he has the support of one cross section of his purported political party, but actually as a tool to enlist those of the radical right wing persuasion. Regardless of their beliefs or intents the fact that they tend to be radical and/or "one minded" scares the living shit out of me. 

[mymistake]

57 minutes ago, MOHO said:

 

What's happening in current events (in America - not Ex-C) really is scary. We have a president (love him or loathe him) who is using religion as tool to grab power. Not to just to kinda pander a little or make sure he has the support of one cross section of his purported political party, but actually as a tool to enlist those of the radical right wing persuasion. Regardless of their beliefs or intents the fact that they tend to be radical and/or "one minded" scares the living shit out of me. 

 

He is only giving Christianity lip service.  He is the most anti-Christian and anti-Christ-like leader we have ever had.  But he gives great lip service.  Talk is free.  Really Trump is merely taking advantage of the situation that Christians and Republicans spent decades creating, as outlined in Riven's original post.

[MOHO]

2 minutes ago, mymistake said:

 

He is only giving Christianity lip service.  He is the most anti-Christian and anti-Christ-like leader we have ever had.  But he gives great lip service.  Talk is free.  Really Trump is merely taking advantage of the situation that Christians and Republicans spent decades creating, as outlined in Riven's original post.

 

Thanx, @mymistake

In a dirty sort of way...I feel better now...