Unconditional Love is Garbage

[knightcore]

Yes I'm going to talk about my relationship with my parents again because apparently all I do on here is to pop in and give encouragement and then complain about my parents after I go and visit them.

 

That said I really hate that my parents can be so actively hurtful to me but still be like "oh but we always love you". Not to mention that they also are like "God still loves you too". It's just this whole mentality that even though we're both hurting each other we still need to stay close. I really hate the God aspect because every time I go to my parents church I feel like I hear the pastor's yearly sermon on how bad those deviant homosexuals are. God obviously does not want me in his church and never has.

In a lot of ways going to my parents house feels like going to church. I know I'm welcome but not as a member of the family really. I can go through all the motions but I'm still othered and not a part of the congregation. I can pay alms but not join. There's just a huge barrier between us and it's never talked about anymore because they've already made their stance clear that I'm not their son and never will be. 

It's honestly so bad that when I finally got home and my roommate called me my name I was caught off guard because I hadn't heard it in four days. My parents refuse to even call me the nickname I've asked them to use, which is an abbreviation of my deadname. They used to have no problem with it but now that it's a compromise they won't do it.

I think it wouldn't be so bad if my dad didn't go out of his way to identify me as a woman constantly. Either by calling me his daughter or just flat out asserting it constantly. My mom will at least just call me her eldest. 

But despite all of the ways that I am constantly disrespected they love me and I love them. In most toxic relationships you can ease out eventually but it feels so much harder with family.

 

I don't really know where this rant is going I'm just intensely sad right now, I know this is much less thought out than my usual posts but my brain is all over the place. I'm tired of people telling me my parents will come around because genuinely no one knows that for sure. And from what I know about my parents they won't and when one day I finally break off from them they'll blame me for it and expect an apology. My parents are so so deep in their faith that nothing is going to pull them from it. Not even me, which hurts as well but that's life I guess? Not being enough has always been my greatest fear and that's probably going to come true. 

[LostinParis]

My niece (formerly nephew) is going through something similar. It’s a giant pile of suck. 

I’m sorry that you have to endure the unnecessary heartache.

Hugs

[Eowynesque]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It is so much harder with family. Ironic that faith is supposed to make people more loving yet it gives people this notion that you're not loving someone if your not trying to save their soul and results in very unloving behavior. 

[ToHellWithMe]

My parents also try to dominate me. I won't let them and so long as they insist on it, they won't be in my life. It's just a matter of putting your foot down and not budging. In practice that may mean cutting most connections. But is that the problem in your case? Do they tell you what to do or do they just insist on you not telling them what to do?

 

You can't force them to think the way you'd like them to. That's within their boundaries and you cannot make demands there. Pronouns and names are a grey area I guess, but if you go with a desperate "at least grant me this", even if you're putting your feet down on it it's still pleading and that implies admitting your weak posision. Cuts both ways of course.

[mymistake]

That is awful knightcore.  I"m assuming they have some kind of leverage over you that forces you to visit with them and go to their church . . . or else.  Just awful.  Your parents have an obligation to you that they can never satisfy because they don't understand it.  It's going to suck every time they are closer to their imaginary friend than they are to their own family.  I'm so sorry.

 

At my last church my last Pastor had a Hate-the-Gays sermon he did once a year.  It really pissed me off.  Then it must have been so successful with our community that he bumped it up to once a month.  I hated that even more.  Then he started doing it twice a month and I had to get my wife and kids out of that church so they didn't start thinking that Nazi crap was normal.  What the hell is wrong with people?  It's like they want to do the 1930's all over again.

 

If there are decent people at your parent's church they will eventually leave that church.  Many of them will become ex-Chrisitans because of all the hate.

[knightcore]

1 hour ago, mymistake said:

That is awful knightcore.  I"m assuming they have some kind of leverage over you that forces you to visit with them and go to their church . . . or else.  Just awful. 

 

I've been thinking about this since I woke up and saw it and I don't... know that they do. This may sound like a silly revelation to have but they don't really? Except for being able to see my siblings? It's just understood that I go to church when I'm home out of "respect" but if I ever don't my dad throws a fit for the rest of the day and is impossible to be around. Is manipulative behavior leverage?

But I guess there isn't really like. A solid reason to go home, or to put up with all of this other than obligation. 

This is genuinely a lot to think about and I'm glad you phrased things the way you did.

[knightcore]

2 hours ago, ToHellWithMe said:

Pronouns and names are a grey area I guess, but if you go with a desperate "at least grant me this", even if you're putting your feet down on it it's still pleading and that implies admitting your weak posision. Cuts both ways of course.

 

I've already tried that and it really doesn't work. I think I came off too weak honestly. But you're really right at the end of the day I can't force values on them and I think that's why I'm so resigned at this point. 

[Geezer]

2 hours ago, mymistake said:

That is awful knightcore.  I"m assuming they have some kind of leverage over you that forces you to visit with them and go to their church . . . or else.  Just awful.  Your parents have an obligation to you that they can never satisfy because they don't understand it.  It's going to suck every time they are closer to their imaginary friend than they are to their own family.  I'm so sorry.

 

At my last church my last Pastor had a Hate-the-Gays sermon he did once a year.  It really pissed me off.  Then it must have been so successful with our community that he bumped it up to once a month.  I hated that even more.  Then he started doing it twice a month and I had to get my wife and kids out of that church so they didn't start thinking that Nazi crap was normal.  What the hell is wrong with people?  It's like they want to do the 1930's all over again.

 

If there are decent people at your parent's church they will eventually leave that church.  Many of them will become ex-Chrisitans because of all the hate.

 

Preachers tend to preach a lot about the sins they are struggling with......just say'n. 

[mymistake]

2 hours ago, knightcore said:

 

I've been thinking about this since I woke up and saw it and I don't... know that they do. This may sound like a silly revelation to have but they don't really? Except for being able to see my siblings? It's just understood that I go to church when I'm home out of "respect" but if I ever don't my dad throws a fit for the rest of the day and is impossible to be around. Is manipulative behavior leverage?

But I guess there isn't really like. A solid reason to go home, or to put up with all of this other than obligation. 

This is genuinely a lot to think about and I'm glad you phrased things the way you did.

 

 

It's called emotional blackmail.  You want a normal healthy family and it is in your nature to desire close family ties.  Your parents deny a normal relationship with you unless you jump through the hoops they demand of you.  Parental affection should not be withheld.  Maybe they lie to you about loving you unconditionally but it looks to me like their affection is transactional.   You should expect them to lie about love because that is build into Christianity.  God is suppose to love us unconditionally but only if we pledge our allegiance to Jesus and join the religion.  This is the opposite of unconditional.  What is even worse it the demands your parents put on you are to change your core personal identity.  This is something you couldn't change even if you wanted to.  This is as bad as the stereotype father who could never love his son because the father wanted the son to be a football star instead of a math genius.

 

 

 

[midniterider]

After a while I might start to feel less obligation to put up with their baloney. If they are going to be turds I would not want to visit them.

[older]

21 hours ago, knightcore said:

In most toxic relationships you can ease out eventually but it feels so much harder with family.

 

I think everyone wants to be loved by his or her parents. It really hurts when you somehow never measure up. You are not alone in this.....Having parents who demand that you be what they expect you to be, rather than accepting you for who you are, is painful. Having a parent who is quick to point out what in their eyes are your mistakes and failures and never acknowledges your successes really hurts. I don't think there is any full cure for this. There are ways to ameliorate it, but the hurt of the loss of a truly accepting parent may always lurk in the background. Time and distance do help, and as those two factors increase, the pain will decrease.  But the road to that point is a rough and winding one.

[knightcore]

12 hours ago, mymistake said:

 

 

It's called emotional blackmail.  You want a normal healthy family and it is in your nature to desire close family ties.  Your parents deny a normal relationship with you unless you jump through the hoops they demand of you.  Parental affection should not be withheld.  Maybe they lie to you about loving you unconditionally but it looks to me like their affection is transactional.   You should expect them to lie about love because that is build into Christianity.  God is suppose to love us unconditionally but only if we pledge our allegiance to Jesus and join the religion.  This is the opposite of unconditional.  What is even worse it the demands your parents put on you are to change your core personal identity.  This is something you couldn't change even if you wanted to.  This is as bad as the stereotype father who could never love his son because the father wanted the son to be a football star instead of a math genius.

 

 

 

 

I do think they love me I don't think that part is a lie. But I do definitely think that the definition of love is distorted. Also I'm not sure it's being withheld so much as forced? Like when I talk to my dad I can feel the strain of him trying to be normal and not talk about anything related to my being transgender.

But I also feel like it will only be forced as long as I play along. I know they don't see it as transactional because they've placed all of that on me. If I ever decide I want to break off that's on me and not them because they're going to love me regardless even though they don't accept me. They've made it really clear that if there ever is a rift in the family that it will be because I break off and not them and therefore that's my fault and not theirs.

I was talking to my friend this morning and described it as playing hypothetical chess with myself, but against them. Because all the choices are on me and they're refusing to play but they're still the opponent. Every move is my fault because they will only take a passive role.

[knightcore]

3 hours ago, older said:

 

I think everyone wants to be loved by his or her parents. It really hurts when you somehow never measure up. You are not alone in this.....Having parents who demand that you be what they expect you to be, rather than accepting you for who you are, is painful. Having a parent who is quick to point out what in their eyes are your mistakes and failures and never acknowledges your successes really hurts. 

 

I think what really stings is that my dad especially has always been hard on me and been vocally disappointed in my grades, college, and general choices even before I came out. But he is always highly supportive of one of my brothers. It's really obvious who the favorite is with him. 

[mymistake]

3 minutes ago, knightcore said:

I do think they love me I don't think that part is a lie. But I do definitely think that the definition of love is distorted. 

 

Well I'm not there but it seems reasonable that your parents would care about you the best way they know how.  But if they tell you it's unconditional then your parents are not being honest with you or themselves.  I'm sure there is both good and bad in the mix.

 

 

5 minutes ago, knightcore said:

 Also I'm not sure it's being withheld so much as forced? Like when I talk to my dad I can feel the strain of him trying to be normal and not talk about anything related to my being transgender.

 

Awkwardness is to be expected.  I don't think that can be helped.

 

 

7 minutes ago, knightcore said:

 But I also feel like it will only be forced as long as I play along. I know they don't see it as transactional because they've placed all of that on me. If I ever decide I want to break off that's on me and not them because they're going to love me regardless even though they don't accept me. They've made it really clear that if there ever is a rift in the family that it will be because I break off and not them and therefore that's my fault and not theirs.

I was talking to my friend this morning and described it as playing hypothetical chess with myself, but against them. Because all the choices are on me and they're refusing to play but they're still the opponent. Every move is my fault because they will only take a passive role.

 

Yeah, the way they treat you is unhealthy and unfair.  Maybe they can't help it because they are indoctrinated with a religion that is a pack of lies.  You have my sympathy.  I would also encourage you to think up new ways to protect yourself from this crap.  When I moved away from my folks I picked an area that was 500 miles away specifically so they wouldn't visit me often and I wouldn't be able to visit them at all.  That distance was such a relief.  After a decade away I couldn't remember why we didn't get along.  But maybe your situation calls for something else.  Find what works for you.

[Fweethawt]

You can save yourself a lot of grief simply by arriving at the conclusion that your parents are under no obligation to love you, or to love you unconditionally.

 

Stop calling it a loving relationship because its not. It's an obviously conditional toxic relationship. 

 

Accept that -- and then you have something to work with.

[Lucy]

Is visiting your family worth all the grief? If you still want to keep the relationship, it might be better to stay away for a longer time. Then when they see you they might be less apt to act so disdainfully for fear you might stay away longer next time.

 

Some parents act like they own their children. They can't control who you are as much as they might try. If you stop going around them, it would be perfectly understandable to any reasonable person. It doesn't matter who they try to put the blame on. They don't even call you by your name.

[older]

12 hours ago, Lucy said:

Is visiting your family worth all the grief? If you still want to keep the relationship, it might be better to stay away for a longer time. Then when they see you they might be less apt to act so disdainfully for fear you might stay away longer next time.

 

Some parents act like they own their children. They can't control who you are as much as they might try. If you stop going around them, it would be perfectly understandable to any reasonable person. It doesn't matter who they try to put the blame on. They don't even call you by your name.

 

^ ^ ^

[knightcore]

22 hours ago, Fweethawt said:

You can save yourself a lot of grief simply by arriving at the conclusion that your parents are under no obligation to love you, or to love you unconditionally.

 

Stop calling it a loving relationship because its not. It's an obviously conditional toxic relationship. 

 

Accept that -- and then you have something to work with.

 

Much easier said than done. But you're right.

 

15 hours ago, Lucy said:

Is visiting your family worth all the grief? If you still want to keep the relationship, it might be better to stay away for a longer time. Then when they see you they might be less apt to act so disdainfully for fear you might stay away longer next time.

 

Some parents act like they own their children. They can't control who you are as much as they might try. If you stop going around them, it would be perfectly understandable to any reasonable person. It doesn't matter who they try to put the blame on. They don't even call you by your name.

 

I really don't know if it is anymore. I'm mixed parts happy and miserable when I'm there but whenever I get home the depression hits like a 16 wheeler. So logically no it's not worth the grief. 

Also seeing that last sentence really hit me hard even though it's something I've told myself often.

[mwc]

     Tell them that you cannot be around them with things the way they are.  If they wish to restore contact your door is always open, you love them but they know what your terms are.  Be sure you're willing to do this though.  It could last a lifetime since they likely see things in a similar fashion.

 

          mwc