Joe Rogan / Robert Schoch

[Joshpantera]

This is a good follow up and up to date conversation about the early dating of the Sphinx. I've been interested in this for years since the 90's when it hit the media. There's been a lot of new age theories thrown at it, with aliens and atlantis and all that, but Schoch is the geologist that confirmed the water erosion originally and then went to gather a lot of corroborating evidence. This is his science based theory on how and why the 9,700 BCE era is of special interest with the breaking up of the ice age and solar activity. Anywho, the video is posted below. I've been listening to it on drives and working through the whole thing: 

 

 

[mymistake]

Wow, that is a really long video.  I won't be getting into that but isn't the basic hypothesis that a much older culture made a much (slightly) bigger monument?  Then the Egyptian culture grew up around that old monument and reshaped it to their own purpose?

 

 

 

(Edited for clarity.)

[Joshpantera]

7 hours ago, mymistake said:

Wow, that is a really long video.  I won't be getting into that but isn't the basic hypothesis that a much older culture made a much bigger monument?  Then the Egyptian culture grew up around that old monument and reshaped it to their own purpose?

 

Yeah, and it's dam interesting seeing the evidences he shows for that conclusion. I've been listening to this over a few long drives. It's about 3 hrs. The geological evidence shows older structures having been renovated at a later time. And the thing is, Egyptian mythology says this. It's in the Zep Tepi myth. And he shows how there are inscriptions that say as much in different places. The politics of Egyptian Egyptologist's seems to be a huge stumbling block. Because they don't want to admit that the whole thing is not completely original. There's evidence of the pyramids being built around an older sacred site that they decided to revamp. 

 

Where it gets really interesting is the evidence of a solar induced dark age period following the break up of the last ice age. That's where the 9,700 BCE dating comes into play. And find correspondence in other sites discovered to date back to around 10,000 BCE which have arisen since the 90's when the rain erosion features of the Sphinx were made public. Schoch want's to take Rogan to Egypt and do a pod cast there, and physically walk him through all of the evidence. I hope they do that. It would make one hell of a show. And political stink with the Egyptologist's. 

[Fweethawt]

11 hours ago, mymistake said:

...but isn't the basic hypothesis that a much older culture made a much bigger monument?  Then the Egyptian culture grew up around that old monument and reshaped it to their own purpose?

Yeah!!! They took that "much bigger monument" and chipped away at it using their little stones and chisels until they were left with what we see today -- 3 big pyramids and a Sphinx. It's absolutely amazing!

[Joshpantera]

There was ruins, they think the sphinx was a lion originally and the pharoh's head carved out later. The bed rock area seems to be old ruins down below that pyramids were built up from. All the geological details are discussed. 

[♦ nivek ♦]

josh,

 

Thanks man, this is by far not my area of deep interest however DO find subject fascinating.   Opened up ewet00b and been listening.  Amazing what is being discovered and myths being exposed with research and shovels.

 

kL 

[mymistake]

4 hours ago, Fweethawt said:

Yeah!!! They took that "much bigger monument" and chipped away at it using their little stones and chisels until they were left with what we see today -- 3 big pyramids and a Sphinx. It's absolutely amazing!

 

 

Not the pyramids.  Just the sphinx.  And by "much bigger" we are talking about maybe 10% to 30% bigger than the present day sphinx.  Perhaps "much" was a poor word choice on my part.  And mostly thousands of years of rain are what chipped away at it.

[Fweethawt]

3 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

There was ruins, they think the sphinx was a lion originally and the pharoh's head carved out later. The bed rock area seems to be old ruins down below that pyramids were built up from. All the geological details are discussed. 

Back in the day, I found myself getting deeply wrapped up in the conspiracy theories surrounding the building and designs of the pyramids and all that crap. Then, once it occurred to me that I was just being sucked down another road of bullshit like so many of the ones that are out there, I called it quits and stopped paying attention to what was going on over there and what other things were being uncovered.

[Joshpantera]

8 minutes ago, Fweethawt said:

Back in the day, I found myself getting deeply wrapped up in the conspiracy theories surrounding the building and designs of the pyramids and all that crap. Then, once it occurred to me that I was just being sucked down another road of bullshit like so many of the ones that are out there, I called it quits and stopped paying attention to what was going on over there and what other things were being uncovered.

 

Yeah, all variety of aliens theories and new age ideas surround it all. Many of which seem easily dismissed. The age issue is not as easily dismissed, though. And it's not too big a deal, it just pushes back the dates for civilization a few thousands years earlier. But that's enough to piss off Egyptologist's. Shcoch keeps pointing out that they are not scientist's, not geologists, and aren't really qualified to make the statements that they often do about those issues. 

[Joshpantera]

Schoch discusses how he thinks the older structures date back to contemporary with finds like this, which he's also been involved with: 

 

 

[mymistake]

25 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Yeah, all variety of aliens theories and new age ideas surround it all. Many of which seem easily dismissed. The age issue is not as easily dismissed, though. And it's not too big a deal, it just pushes back the dates for civilization a few thousands years earlier. But that's enough to piss off Egyptologist's. Shcoch keeps pointing out that they are not scientist's, not geologists, and aren't really qualified to make the statements that they often do about those issues. 

 

Conspiracy theories and science shouldn't be in the same conversation.  Apples and oranges and all that.  As for the Egyptologists, I don't see why they would be upset.  If it turns out this is right then they will simply be the curator of a second ancient culture.  It still happened in the area that is now Egypt so they would still be in charge of whatever is found.

[Joshpantera]

1 hour ago, mymistake said:

 

Conspiracy theories and science shouldn't be in the same conversation.  Apples and oranges and all that.  As for the Egyptologists, I don't see why they would be upset.  If it turns out this is right then they will simply be the curator of a second ancient culture.  It still happened in the area that is now Egypt so they would still be in charge of whatever is found.

 

And, the Egyptians claim that they came from an earlier culture, so it doesn't undermine the Egyptians. But apparently they're hostile towards the notion that sphinx and pyramids were a renovations project rather than original construction, basically. 

[mymistake]

9 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

 

And, the Egyptians claim that they came from an earlier culture, so it doesn't undermine the Egyptians. But apparently they're hostile towards the notion that sphinx and pyramids were a renovations project rather than original construction, basically. 

 

 

Okay I admit I didn't watch either video because they are way longer than 15 mins but are you saying they are claiming that the pyramids are much older than the traditional timeline?

[Joshpantera]

59 minutes ago, mymistake said:

 

 

Okay I admit I didn't watch either video because they are way longer than 15 mins but are you saying they are claiming that the pyramids are much older than the traditional timeline?

 

Schoch thinks they were reworked in the Egyptian period. Possibly capped over and brushed up, or built up over ruins. But he's more certain about the ruins below and the sphinx dating back to around 9,700 BCE

[Joshpantera]

On 6/12/2018 at 7:48 PM, Ann said:

I haven't watched/listened to the whole podcast yet...but will. I love this stuff! Anyway.....doesn't Schoch think there is something under the Spinx as well? I heard about that theory some time ago....with evidence to back up why there might be a cavern under the Spinx and was most upset Egyptologists didn't jump on the evidence presented and start looking. It seemed weird to me the politics surrounding who found what and when in Egypt would trump a potential amazing discovery like something may be under the Spinx.

 

He discussed that in the pod cast. He did seismic readings back in the 90's and found a hallow under the left paw. And Egyptian politics have prevented it's investigation. 

[Geezer]

I'm about half way through Dr. Robert M. Schoch's book Voyages of the Pyramid Builders. I love history so this book is right up my alley. Schock presents evidence that there were advanced ancient cultures that interacted with other cultures all over the world long before Columbus "discovered" the New World. 

 

His case is build strictly on evidence. He notes in his book that all humans are faced with survival issues. And since all humans share some similarities they obviously will independently come up with similar ideas on how to survive. He presents historians case that there are ways to identify a completely new idea verses one that has been copied and/or modified and then transferred from one culture to another culture.  

 

He notes some things were clearly transferred between cultures like corn. Corn  was indigenous to Mexico, but ended up as a staple crop for cultures all over the Old Word long before Columbus "found" the new world. Chickens were another example. This was an Old world resources that was transferred to the New World long before Columbus "found" the new world. These are but two of many examples he sites that required contact and interaction between very distant cultures. Cultures that supposedly didn't know each other existed. 

 

Pyramid design and construction is another example of transferal of knowledge between distance cultures where each culture changed or modified some aspects of the design and construction technique. 

 

Ancient maps provide other evidence that there was interaction between old and new world cultures. Ancient maps, that were copied from even more ancient maps, give accurate information about Antarctica's coast line and interior a long time before Antarctica was "discovered". The maps indicate Antarctica was not covered by ice when the source map was originally drawn. There was interior ice but not on the coastlines. These maps identify inland rivers that are known to have existed. 

 

Other maps, that were copies of much older maps, have accurate latitude and longitude markings which was thought to be impossible, but absolutely required for accurate navigation. Figuring accurate longitude requires knowledge of highly advanced mathematics, and a knowledge that the earth is not flat because part of the math requires the curvature of the earth be figured into the equation. That information wasn't even available to Columbus.

 

When Schoch and others are talking about highly advanced ancient cultures this is the kind of stuff they're talking about not that they had planes, rockets, or IPhones. These ancient cultures knowledge of engineering, navigation, and mathematics was far more advanced than what is generally believed today. If Schoch and others are correct, then it would appear that humanity and its accumulated knowledge has been wiped out by extinction events in the past requiring starting from scratch again, and probably more than once. 

 

If you're into this kind of stuff like I am, then you will enjoy his book. 

 

 

[Tsathoggua9]

On 7/28/2018 at 1:30 PM, Geezer said:

I'm about half way through Dr. Robert M. Schoch's book Voyages of the Pyramid Builders. I love history so this book is right up my alley. Schock presents evidence that there were advanced ancient cultures that interacted with other cultures all over the world long before Columbus "discovered" the New World. 

 

His case is build strictly on evidence. He notes in his book that all humans are faced with survival issues. And since all humans share some similarities they obviously will independently come up with similar ideas on how to survive. He presents historians case that there are ways to identify a completely new idea verses one that has been copied and/or modified and then transferred from one culture to another culture.  

 

He notes some things were clearly transferred between cultures like corn. Corn  was indigenous to Mexico, but ended up as a staple crop for cultures all over the Old Word long before Columbus "found" the new world. Chickens were another example. This was an Old world resources that was transferred to the New World long before Columbus "found" the new world. These are but two of many examples he sites that required contact and interaction between very distant cultures. Cultures that supposedly didn't know each other existed. 

 

Pyramid design and construction is another example of transferal of knowledge between distance cultures where each culture changed or modified some aspects of the design and construction technique. 

 

Ancient maps provide other evidence that there was interaction between old and new world cultures. Ancient maps, that were copied from even more ancient maps, give accurate information about Antarctica's coast line and interior a long time before Antarctica was "discovered". The maps indicate Antarctica was not covered by ice when the source map was originally drawn. There was interior ice but not on the coastlines. These maps identify inland rivers that are known to have existed. 

 

Other maps, that were copies of much older maps, have accurate latitude and longitude markings which was thought to be impossible, but absolutely required for accurate navigation. Figuring accurate longitude requires knowledge of highly advanced mathematics, and a knowledge that the earth is not flat because part of the math requires the curvature of the earth be figured into the equation. That information wasn't even available to Columbus.

 

When Schoch and others are talking about highly advanced ancient cultures this is the kind of stuff they're talking about not that they had planes, rockets, or IPhones. These ancient cultures knowledge of engineering, navigation, and mathematics was far more advanced than what is generally believed today. If Schoch and others are correct, then it would appear that humanity and its accumulated knowledge has been wiped out by extinction events in the past requiring starting from scratch again, and probably more than once. 

 

If you're into this kind of stuff like I am, then you will enjoy his book. 

 

 

 

I haven't read Schoch in many years, but i always found his ideas intriguing!

[Joshpantera]

I'm always keeping an eye on new developments. I figure if correct this will all unravel eventually into accepted basic understanding. But right now it's a fight because it requires a rethink. 

[Joshpantera]

 

Some more issues with the break up of the last Ice Age...