Borticus

What’s the point of judgement day?

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If god is supposedly omnipotent and know everything you’ve done in life (most importantly receiving or denying Christ). Then why can’t he just judge people right after their death? Also sorry if this comes across as a low effort post.

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I've asked myself questions like this for a while now.  You could take it a step further and ask why an omnipotent being that supposedly knows every hair on your head before you're born make you in such a fashion that you'll doubt, then go directly to Hell.  I could never rectify "free will" with omniscience.  God knows the future, past, and present and will judge you accordingly on them even if you don't have a choice in the matter.  I think Calvinism works like this.  Also see Romans and the parable of the potter's clay, which formed a lot of my opinions on this subject.

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3 hours ago, Borticus said:

If god is supposedly omnipotent and know everything you’ve done in life (most importantly receiving or denying Christ). Then why can’t he just judge people right after their death? Also sorry if this comes across as a low effort post.

 

One Christian interpretation could be that the dead remain in the grave until judgment day, at which point all the dead will then be judged.  Revelations 20:11-15 has the dead being judged after several events (prophesies?) occur, including the 1,000 year reign of the priests of God and Jesus, and the devil being released for a while before being thrown in the lake of fire.   But some dead individuals are perhaps already in heaven, such as Enoch and Elijah, and one of the thieves who crucified along with Jesus (Jesus tells him that he would be in paradise on that day in Luke 23:43).  Which seems to suggest that they have already been judged...

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     I only have a minute but the quick answer is that Judgement Day comes every year.  The Jews would do their sacrifices (which in the Rabbinic version work a bit differently but I'm not going to get bogged down in any of that since it really doesn't matter overall) and instead of everyone and everything getting what they deserved the world would get another "cycle" and the whole thing would simply repeat until next time.

 

     But there was a belief where there would come a day when the cycles would end and the there would be one final judgement.  That would be at the end of days.  What this meant was really sort of vague but in some views it would mark the return to the beginning.  Sort of a return to the "golden age" prior to when the cycles began in the first place only once this happened then that would be that and that age would exist forever.  Sort of how people imagine what might happen in the post-Revelation world when the "new" Earth and all that happens.

 

     So the judgement is only necessary because it is a holdover from Judaism.  It is part of the yearly cycle.  The year ends.  The readings end.  They work their magic.  And the year starts anew.  The readings start from the beginning.  It's the way the system works.  It's just not all too logical when it comes to deciding fates and all that nonsense.

 

          mwc

 

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It all makes perfect since if placed in context. The Bible is literature. It isn't history. And it's literature commonly classified as fiction. Mankind has been making up God's and  religions for thousands of years. Christianity is but one of many religions that caught on and became popular. The Bible plus endless brainwashing & indoctrination has produced a couple billion believers. 

 

The same can be said for Islam. Brain wash children from birth and your religion will not only survive but it will also prosper. That formula has been working quite well for thousands of years. 

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12 hours ago, Borticus said:

If god is supposedly omnipotent and know everything you’ve done in life (most importantly receiving or denying Christ). Then why can’t he just judge people right after their death? Also sorry if this comes across as a low effort post.

It's a convenient rhetoric to get simple minded people to reflect on their actions and try to live their life morally, as though they were to face a literal court at the end of it all. I don't think the concept was originally constructed with ill intent, but over millenia fear-mongers and cult-leaders appropriated it to scare people into doing what they personally want, rather then some general good behavior. I think a lot of the rhetoric in the bible make more sense if you frame it in terms of what behavior it's intended to invoke, rather than whether it makes logical sense (spoiler warning: it usually doesn't make sense, and if you point it out to a believer you'll get "God is beyond our understanding" yadayada...)

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If there is an omnipotent being that created humans, then they cannot possibly have free will.

 

A free will must necessarily include the ability to refuse to obey or worship, which thing an omnipotent being cannot be denied.

 

"All" power, after all, must include every kind and degree of power, inclusive of the ability to stop any dissent.

 

The idea that a god rages in righteous anger at people who refuse his rule is hilarious.

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On 7/7/2018 at 1:08 AM, readyforchange said:

 

One Christian interpretation could be that the dead remain in the grave until judgment day, at which point all the dead will then be judged.  Revelations 20:11-15 has the dead being judged after several events (prophesies?) occur, including the 1,000 year reign of the priests of God and Jesus, and the devil being released for a while before being thrown in the lake of fire.   But some dead individuals are perhaps already in heaven, such as Enoch and Elijah, and one of the thieves who crucified along with Jesus (Jesus tells him that he would be in paradise on that day in Luke 23:43).  Which seems to suggest that they have already been judged...

 

Sounds like you've come into contact with Adventist doctrine and soul sleep theology. 

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What right does god even have to judge us in the first place, when he has the power to stop human trafficking, school shootings, world hunger, and jock itch; but he doesn't lift a finger to do dick-all about any of it?

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On 7/6/2018 at 8:46 PM, Borticus said:

If god is supposedly omnipotent and know everything you’ve done in life (most importantly receiving or denying Christ). Then why can’t he just judge people right after their death? Also sorry if this comes across as a low effort post.

 

 

Because he's a drama queen?

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For that matter, what’s the point of judgement day if our deceased loved ones are already in heaven watching over us? 

We’ve likely heard the response that everybody has their personal judgement day, when they’re met at the pearly gates or whatever, but this response does not account for why the Bible would talk about THE Judgement day, does it?

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2 hours ago, TrailBlazer said:

For that matter, what’s the point of judgement day if our deceased loved ones are already in heaven watching over us? 

We’ve likely heard the response that everybody has their personal judgement day, when they’re met at the pearly gates or whatever, but this response does not account for why the Bible would talk about THE Judgement day, does it?

 

If there wasn't THE Judgement Day, then there would be no "TA-DA" moment when Christ returns.  Everyone has a good show: snacks are served and the fate of everyone is determined.  I kind of hope they let Richard Dawson out of where ever he went to host the whole shebang.

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On 7/9/2018 at 1:37 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

What right does god even have to judge us in the first place, when he has the power to stop human trafficking, school shootings, world hunger, and jock itch; but he doesn't lift a finger to do dick-all about any of it?

 

Well said. I nominate this for post of the year.

 

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It's a recruitment tool found in the "fear" arsenal. Obviously it makes no sense in the story context.

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On 7/6/2018 at 9:46 PM, Borticus said:

If god is supposedly omnipotent and know everything you’ve done in life (most importantly receiving or denying Christ). Then why can’t he just judge people right after their death? Also sorry if this comes across as a low effort post.

 

Judgment is to show that God is just in how he would've dealt with sinners. Every tongue (including those of hellbound sinners) will confess that God was right. The records of sins are evidence which show that certain beings forfeited life.

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8 hours ago, Thumbelina said:

 

Judgment is to show that God is just in how he would've dealt with sinners. Every tongue (including those of hellbound sinners) will confess that God was right. The records of sins are evidence which show that certain beings forfeited life.

Thumb, you still believe that the account of Genesis is true? Your answer will mean everything to me. 

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9 hours ago, Thumbelina said:

 

Judgment is to show that God is just in how he would've dealt with sinners. Every tongue (including those of hellbound sinners) will confess that God was right. The records of sins are evidence which show that certain beings forfeited life.

 

I thought you didnt believe in Hell? Change your mind?

 

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10 hours ago, Thumbelina said:

 

Judgment is to show that God is just in how he would've dealt with sinners. Every tongue (including those of hellbound sinners) will confess that God was right. The records of sins are evidence which show that certain beings forfeited life.

 

No wonder Christians fear death. The Bible says many will say in that day, "Lord, Lord, we did many good works in your name." And the Lords response will be, "Depart from me, I NEVER knew you." 

 

That certain sounds like he's talking to Christians. And those scriptures completely contradict Ephesians 2: 8-10, but we know the Bible is filled with contradictions &  inconsistencies. It would be expected that a book that is filled with inconsistenties, contradictions,  obvious myths, and stories that could not be possibly be true would have human origins.

 

I do not see any evidence that would indicate the Bible had Divine origins, or that it is in any way sacred. The Bible seems to be a collection of fictional stories that were intended to scare gullible people. 

 

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9 hours ago, Geezer said:

 

No wonder Christians fear death. The Bible says many will say in that day, "Lord, Lord, we did many good works in your name." And the Lords response will be, "Depart from me, I NEVER knew you." 

 

If God never knew me, then He had no recollection about my birth, had no plan, and doesn't know the (thinning) number of hairs on my head.  If He doesn't know all that, then He's not omniscient, which means he's not omnipotent.  You could argue that God chooses not to remember, but then He has a lack of knowledge in that area of His existence, which indicates a lack of omniscience, as I've already mentioned.

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1 hour ago, 1989 said:

 

If God never knew me, then He had no recollection about my birth, had no plan, and doesn't know the (thinning) number of hairs on my head.  If He doesn't know all that, then He's not omniscient, which means he's not omnipotent.  You could argue that God chooses not to remember, but then He has a lack of knowledge in that area of His existence, which indicates a lack of omniscience, as I've already mentioned.

 

Or, it could be that God only exists in the mind of a believer.

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12 hours ago, Margee said:

Thumb, you still believe that the account of Genesis is true? Your answer will mean everything to me. 

Yes ma'am. 

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11 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

I thought you didnt believe in Hell? Change your mind?

 

I never said I didn't believe in hell. The bible clearly states that it will exist.

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10 hours ago, Geezer said:

 

No wonder Christians fear death. The Bible says many will say in that day, "Lord, Lord, we did many good works in your name." And the Lords response will be, "Depart from me, I NEVER knew you." 

 

That certain sounds like he's talking to Christians. And those scriptures completely contradict Ephesians 2: 8-10, but we know the Bible is filled with contradictions &  inconsistencies. It would be expected that a book that is filled with inconsistenties, contradictions,  obvious myths, and stories that could not be possibly be true would have human origins.

 

I do not see any evidence that would indicate the Bible had Divine origins, or that it is in any way sacred. The Bible seems to be a collection of fictional stories that were intended to scare gullible people. 

 

 

Don't you know that the bible says God calls those things which are not as if they already were (already happened)? Scripture describes God as being omniscient. Therefore, He knows that the redeemed will be from every nation, kindred, tongue and people (diverse people).

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Thumbelina said:

I never said I didn't believe in hell. The bible clearly states that it will exist.

 

I remember you saying something like we won't go to the eternal flames, we'll just go to sleep.

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2 hours ago, 1989 said:

 

If God never knew me, then He had no recollection about my birth, had no plan, and doesn't know the (thinning) number of hairs on my head.  If He doesn't know all that, then He's not omniscient, which means he's not omnipotent.  You could argue that God chooses not to remember, but then He has a lack of knowledge in that area of His existence, which indicates a lack of omniscience, as I've already mentioned.

 

If God never knew you, no worries about hell, right?

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