The Importance of Rule #2

[disillusioned]

Alright, people of Ex C. Are you ready?

 

At the outset, I’m going to make one promise, and one promise alone: This Rant Is Not About Donald Trump. It's not about politics. That's why I'm posting it here, and not in ToT.

 

Caveat: I will discuss Trumpipants before I am done. Relax, libruls. I’m one of you at heart. Relax, others. I still love you.

 

Disclaimer(s): I’m not a leftist. I’m not pushing an agenda. I’m a Canadian, not a MURICAN (™). I don’t align myself with either the left or the right, but rather with those who attempt to think clearly.

 

So we’ve got that out of the way. Are you ready? Are you sure?

 

Here we go. This is what it looks like when disillusioned speaks his mind. Brace yourself.

 

How. The. Fuck. Did. We. Get. Here.

 

It’s 2018. I’m tempted to ask you to consider where we were ten years ago. But, at the pace that life is currently moving, that’s way too far back to try and go. Five years? Still, too far. Three years. There’s the sweet spot.

 

2015. It was an intrepid time. Something about ISIS, Crimea, Ebola, Castro, etcetera, etcetera. Somehow, none of that matters anymore. Do you feel disoriented? Confused? Wondering how the hell we got here? #metoo.

 

What the fuck is going on?

 

When did white men become the victims? Am I, admittedly, a white man, an asshole If I’m not on board with the faux anger, the faux outrage, the faux hurt that is driving my fellow alabaster (and, in some cases, shall we say tangerine (deepest apologies; I said I wouldn’t go there)) gentlemen if I don’t subscribe to the narrative that we white men are being oppressed by the minorities? Am I a traitor somehow if I think that black lives actually do matter? Am I just a librul fucktard if I think that NATO is more, not less relevant than it used to be, and that the reason for this is that the US now represents a clear and present danger to the world at large? Am I less of a man somehow because I think that women have, in fact, been oppressed for a long time, and that I think that we men should probably try to rectify this situation? Is there any sanity left in the world?

 

For fuck sakes.

 

I’ve been absent on this site, which I used to consider to be a paragon of clear thought, for roughly a month now. Prior to my absence, I was heavily engaged in an effort, along with certain other members who shall go unnamed, to steady the proverbial ship, as it were. A number of us had noticed a general decrease in civility, and an increase in hostility. This was associated with declining membership. Some people were just not stopping by anymore, and some others were overtly making their exits. Either way, it wasn’t cool. So my colleagues and I tried to do what we could to limit the damage. To try and mend the rift. To try to help people remember that we all share a common purpose: to help and support those who are newly deconverted. Politics is lovely. It’s an interesting topic of conversation. And it is incredibly, fundamentally (these days, especially) important. But it is not the point of this site. Here, it is an aside, at best.

 

We are here because we used to be Christians, and now we are not.

 

Some of us have suffered incredible abuse at the hands of Christianity. Some of us struggle with mental health issues. Some of us are entirely nonplussed by discussions of politics, and that’s just fine. Such people may simply stay out of ToT. But, at the same time, some of us are deeply interested in discussing politics, but would rather engage in discussion of the actual issues than in ad hominem attacks, non-sequiturs, and general shit-slinging. Politics or otherwise, I think we’d all be well-advised to try this approach. This is why I’ve always maintained that I try to live by two rules: 1) Do whatever makes you happy, and 2) Don’t be a dick.

 

The thing is, rule #2 is really fucking important. And somewhere along the way, we’ve lost sight of this.

 

Don’t get me wrong; it’s not as important as rule #1. Not by a long shot. In fact, rule #2 doesn’t really matter at all as long as you’re content to live your life in isolation. If you’re only worried about you, then just do whatever the hell you want, and be a dick, if that tickles your fancy. That’s just peachy. I don’t have a problem with isolationist assholes, or even with assholes in general, so long as I’m free to tell them that they are assholes. They can fuck right off, and I’ll just move on with my life. Free speech, and all that. Yay!

 

But here’s the question that I really want to ask: if that’s you, if you’re an asshole who isn’t concerned with rule #2, then why the fuck are you here? Have you lost sight of the purpose of this site? We are supposed to be helping ex-Christians. And we are all ex-Christians. So why are we pushing each other away?

 

How can we help each other if we insist on being dicks?

 

Before I go any further, I should say that I appreciate that I don’t make the rules for this site. Dave is the Admin. It’s his house, and we’re all just living in it. And, if he decides he doesn’t want me, or anyone else to hang out here anymore, then that’s his business. See, the thing is, I get that free speech doesn’t extend everywhere, and that it shouldn’t, necessarily, extend everywhere. I also get that I’m just another passenger on this train. My opinion doesn’t matter that much. I’m not a mod here. I’m not even that influential of a regular member. Sure, I’ve been around for a bit, had some good discussions, racked up a few reputation points, etcetera, etcetera, but what does that matter? In principle, it doesn’t really, and in practice, it doesn’t at all.

 

Nevertheless, here we are. The fact is that for a while now, people have been leaving this site because of the inflammatory bullshit that has been getting posted. And, some people have been banned for dissenting. Is this the ExC that we want? Really? An ExC where people feel unwelcome because of their political leanings? An ExC where people, who should be free to explore their new-found freedom of thought, and apply it to all areas, including politics, are finding themselves badgered into thinking a certain way, or pissing off for all eternity? Is that who we are? Really?

 

(Dave and mods, please don’t take this as a critique of you. Please realize that I know that this is not a true democracy. You reign supreme. If I must be silenced, then so be it. But, dare I say, so much, then, for tolerance and free speech. And further, if I may be so bold, so much for the purpose of this site: for I, too, am an ExChristian, with my own need for support, and need to express myself. This is a topic which has been bothering me for quite some time now. Silence me if you will: that is your prerogative. Either way, know that I appreciate you, what you are trying to do here, what you have done here, and, above all, that I value the point and purpose of this site. There are members here who are, and will always be, my friends. Some of them are amongst your ranks. For that, you have my sincerest thanks.)

 

Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. And something about guns. That is the essence of America. But I’m Canadian. From up here, things are a little less (or, perhaps, more) murky. Sure, we all want freedom. And, for the most part, we have it. But it isn’t guaranteed.

 

We need to be able to say the things that we want to say. For those South of the border, the first amendment comes to mind. For those of us to the North, we’ll cite the Charter. Others from around the globe will make their own claims. But the thing is, freedom of speech doesn’t mean, and has never meant, freedom from other people judging you for your speech. Sometimes that looks like people disagreeing with you on the internet. That’s fine. Sometimes it looks like you getting fired. And that’s fine too, as long as the people who fired you aren’t the government. This is all well and good. I don’t think anyone here seriously disagrees with me on this.

 

Nevertheless, if I were to say that the president of the United States is a racist, sexist, asshole, who is probably a traitor and is definitely one of the worst presidents to ever represent the great country that is the United States of America on the world stage, I would, by the majority on this site at least, probably wind up being labelled as an intolerant ignoramus.

 

And that would be fine.

 

No violation of my freedom of speech. I get to say what I want. And you get to judge me for it. No harm, no foul.

 

(See, libruls? I told you we’d get to Trumpipants sooner or later.)

 

But there’s one problem: there is harm, and I’m calling foul.

 

Trump is not a normal president. He’s not just a republican that I don’t happen to agree with politically. He’s doing things which are genuinely disturbing from a humanistic perspective. Children in cages, and what-not. Fake news. Alternative facts. The media is the enemy of the people. I’m a very stable genius, who knows words, and has the best words. NO COLLUSION, LOCK HER UP, BUILD THAT WALL. WE’VE ALWAYS BEEN AT WAR WITH EASTASIA. SAD!

 

He’s made it so that I, as a Canadian, now consider the United States of America to be the single greatest threat to my nation in the world. The USA, who used to be our brethren. It makes me sick to think this way.

 

So please realize, my American friends, that I still love you. I have family in the US. I want nothing more than to go back to the days when our two great nations were BFFs. But that is not my call. It seriously looks to me like you have a president who is determined to make your nation the bad guys. I don’t want to be at odds with you. I seriously don’t. But here we are. If you side with that guy, then you are, axiomatically, placing yourself against the world. It’s your right to do so. But it does make you kind of a dick.

 

So much, then, for rule #2.

 

It seems that Trumpipants’ version of America is one that lives exclusively by rule #1.

 

Are you all just dicks, then, America? The world needs to know.

 

(Obligatorily, I’m sorry about all of that. I’m Canadian. Didn’t feel right to just lay it on you like that. I love ya. I feel the need to emphasize that we can still be friends, if you want.)

 

More to the point of the site, are we all just dicks as Ex Christians? Or can we do better?

 

For the record, I’m for trying to do better. Because rule #2 matters.

 

Don’t be a dick people.

 

Or, at least, try.

[disillusioned]

I was gonna, Burnedout. I was gonna. 

Honestly, I feel better even just having ranted.

[buffettphan]

18 minutes ago, disillusioned said:

I was gonna, Burnedout. I was gonna. 

Honestly, I feel better even just having ranted.

 

And I feel better having read your rant!  (Possibly combined with the 3 beers last night!  )

 

 

 

 

[Geezer]

^{Religion & politics are different subjects. I try to steer clear of political discussions because they tend to become too similar to Christians debating atheists. Nobody pays much, if any, attention to what the other person is saying  because they don't care. Each side is convinced the other side is wrong, but just too bullheaded to admit it. So people end up talking past each other and nothing is accomplished and few, if any, minds are changed. Apparently, that is just what humans do.}

 

^{It seems to me if you are not religious you're expected to be politically liberal. If you are religious you're expected to be a politically conservative. It seems no other options are possible, much less permissible.}

 

^{As as far as people falling away on this site, that is true for all discussion boards. Eventually a person says everything they want to say, and have pretty much heard about all there is to hear on Christianity vs Atheism. In other words they just wear out, but many return after their sabbatical with new energy. And so it goes.}

 

^{Lots of people are leaving Christianity all over the world, so I don't see this site becoming irrelevant any time soon. So just hang in there, and this too shall pass.}  

 

 

 

 

[LogicalFallacy]

@disillusioned Epic Fucking Rant.

 

Pretty much spoke my mind. Canadians and New Zealanders must think alike... even if NZ doesn't exist in the minds of some  

[TABA]

6 hours ago, Geezer said:

 

^{Religion & politics are different subjects. I try to steer clear of political discussions because they tend to become too similar to Christians debating atheists. Nobody pays much, if any, attention to what the other person is saying  because they don't care. Each side is convinced the other side is wrong, but just too bullheaded to admit it. So people end up talking past each other and nothing is accomplished and few, if any, minds are changed. Apparently, that is just what humans do.}

 

 

I need to follow Geezer’s example and stay the hell away from politics in this neighborhood.  I don’t want to end up leaving this place, but ToT has driven me to the brink lately. It’s best to leave the politics to the handful of stalwarts who like to hear themselves pontificate. Cause they’re sure as hell not changing anybody’s minds. 

[ag_NO_stic]

Well damn.

[Jeff]

This dickish-american salutes you Canadian citizen   pew pew pew!

 

Nah. Actually, well done my friend!

Good read.

Great Rant!

[TABA]

Moderators, shouldn’t this thread be in ToT?

Seems pretty political to me. 

Totally Off Topic

Almost anything goes, including politics. Please confine political discussions to this area.

[buffettphan]

I, as the moderator for Rants, have been following this thread and posted one of the first responses to it.   Politics and religion can cross all boundaries, including rants, so I will let it stay here .   This thread  won't get sent to TOT.  But if it gets out of line,  I will lock it and leave it here as the Epic Rant it is. 

 

The thread is about Rule #2, Don't Be A Dick.   So everybody, please stay on topic while making your comments -- and Don't Be A Dick while making  them.   Thanks.  

[◊ DestinyTurtle ◊]

There's a lot of hurt people on this site, for obvious reasons, and there are also vultures who come here to peck on the weak and weary. It's bound to have a lot of tension. I'm amazed that it maintains itself as well as it does (I don't really hang around ToT though). 

 

Not all americans are dicks... I hope we have an opportunity to show that at some point

[Wertbag]

Nope, I can't handle it, I'm completely triggered now. That's it, I'm off to my safe space to snuggle bunnies and listen to whale song 

[buffettphan]

This thread will remain here in Rants and locked in order to keep violators of Rule #2 from turning the thread into a ToT-ish mess.   

 

Fini