Did you actually know God, before giving up?

[donthodl]

This is an honest question. One thing that I've noticed after reading many of the stories as people said they grew up in a Christian home, or they got involved in Church, they did ministry, they went on Missions or whatever it way. I haven't heard anyone say they had a personal relationship with Jesus, witnessed signs and wonders, healings, the blind see, demons cast out etc as in the book of Acts and New Testament.

From what I perceive and I don't mean to sound offensive, but it sounds like many came in contact with religion. I can read a book about someone, but that doesn't mean I know them. I completely understand if this is your Christian experience it would be boring as hell and no wonder you'd get frustrated and leave. I was in the same situation. I had been on missions trips, seen people healed and many supernatural things, but there was always something missing. To be honest I was a slave still to my own sin and drowned in fear and unworthiness. I believed God was real, but was never really full on and partly stopped going to Church.

 

I came across a guy in Cape Town South Africia who was involved in street ministry as well as going to hospitals and prisons. My wife suggested going and spending a short time with him. So I went over to South Africia. About the very first day we were just walking through a shopping mall and he walked past some then turned back and said, "How's your knee." Then proceeded to pray for the man's knee and it got healed. The man wasn't actually even walking, so it wasn't obvious that there was something wrong. This happened many times.

I still felt somewhat unworthy that God could use me and believed I'd made too many mistakes. There was over a hundred stories from that trip and will just share a couple of them.

 

We were at a hospital praying for mostly gun shot victims, who'd been shot by gangs or in gang wars. I was praying for a man who hand internal pain and had a patch on his back to show where the pain had been. While I was praying for him he said the pain was leaving. When I took my hand away, he said, "put your hand back, the pain is leaving." I was in shock and kept praying until the pain completely left. I went back to where I was staying and my heart for the first time started to change. As I started operating in faith and of the Holy Spirit I was releasing the love of God. As it says it's better to give than receive. That is true. As I gave away love I received it.

 

Another time at a prison we met about 15-20 young girls, who had no hope. They were sitting there and my friend asked. "Does anyone need healing"? A young girl came out, who had lost her voice and could hardly speak at all. He prayed a quick prayer for her and immediately she started signing a song. A couple of the girls in the front row burst into tears and simply couldn't believe it. We spent time praying for the rest of them and many others were healed also.

 

While I was praying for a girl at the hospital and her family I suddenly felt a sensation like running your hands under water and realized that's exactly what Jesus said. "John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." It suddenly became even more real.

 

Since returning back to Australia I've seen demons cast out of my atheist skeptic friend who had an unknown immune sickness, another completely healed from stage 4 stomach cancer and many others healed. I work with people in New Age, Budhists, Hindus and atheists and make every effort to pray for people and tell them about the love of God. Just to put this in prospective.

I go to pubs or wherever I can to meet people and recently prayed for a man with cancer at a bar. 

 

In a sense could I now walk away from Jesus and say, "it's not for me?" It would be basically impossible. Yes there's ups and downs and have a normal life, but know that the life following Jesus is one of the Spirit, not of the flesh. It's not about sitting in church, while someone preaches. That's ok, but how much faith is required to listen to someone else? That's why it says be doers not hears only.

 

The question I was getting to is??

 

Did you know God before giving up on the faith? To that I know you'll say. God doesn't exist, so it's impossible to know Him. If that is your response, then you weren't actually a believer to start with. If believing was doing Christian practices, such as attending Church and playing in the worship band.

 

But I read the bible and went to bible school. I was a devout Christian: The devil knows the scriptures, but does that mean he's saved? Let's look at Judas. He looked just like the 12, he went everywhere they did, performed signs, but his heart wasn't totally sold out. Satan still had an entry point in regards to his love for money. "John 13:2 During supper, when the devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, to betray him". You see we can look just like believers, walk the walk and talk the talk, but that still doesn't mean we know God. Yes I know Judas did know Jesus, but in knowing Jesus he chose not to trust him and betray him. Many believers today attend church, are involved with church or even pastors and teachers, but they haven't actually repented or turned away from sin and are still living half in the world and half following Jesus. It's one or the other. Galations says "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh". The entire Christian life is based on being born again of the water and the spirit. Receiving the Holy Spirt and daily feeding on the Word to renew the mind. To know if someone is truly saved can be known by their fruit and some of the fruits are "love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control" and a change in behavior (I'm not talking about good works here, just a chance in nature). 

 

You may not agree with what I've written, but I do find it interesting. Tomorrow I'm aiming to pray for a girl at work who hurt it in a motorbike accident and has had two failed operations. Yes she's not a believer, but will see God heal her tomorrow.
I went and visited a nice elderly lady who's been in horrific pain and waiting for the public health system to give her a knee replacement. She let me pray for her knee the other day and when she walked around was in shock and couldn't believe she'd rejected letting me pray for her earlier. It really just showed her that God is real and not just an ideology or theory made up by man to enslave mankind into submission.

 

Questions regarding my story??

1. Miracles don't happen. Show me proof and I'll believe: This is a common one that I've had with atheists. There are likely hundreds of videos on YouTube showing various healings,  people being delivered from demons etc. But you say aren't they just faking it and use actors? Yes seeing someone healed doesn't force someone to believe, they can always choose to believe or not believe. I'd say go and see for yourself if you don't trust the YouTube videos.

 

2. Your story's are all fake and made up: Yes, most of these stories weren't filmed or recorded, so I don't have actual proof. The deliverance of my friend though he can testify to that. The lady with the stage 4 cancer, she has actually thanked me a couple of times for visiting her. She's still alive 18 months later and hasn't had any more cancer. 

 

3. Miracles don't mean you know God: In Matthew 7:22 "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name. And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness". Yes from this it looks like it's even possible to see signs and wonders and not really know God, but it's talking about lawlessness or evildoers. I would say this is speaking of believers that haven't repented and turned away from sin or maybe thinking they are saved just because they've seen signs and wonders.

[florduh]

Wow, that was a rather lengthy way to say, "You were never a real Christian anyway." Thanks, because we never heard that one before.

 

Thanks for playing!

 

[pratt]

hope all the doctors are out of jobs now amd hospitals closed in australia

 

oh wait. there are still doctors and hospitals in australia

[MOHO]

55 minutes ago, donthodl said:

From what I perceive and I don't mean to sound offensive, but it sounds like many came in contact with religion.

 

Your perceptions, sir, indicate that you have barely scratched the surface of the vast experiences of the members of Ex-Christian. 

 

Did we KNOW God/Jesus? We honestly thought we did but, based on experiences and research detailed in the content of this site, many of us came to the realization that the Christian faith has too many holes to be respected and is likely merely a means of controlling the masses. 

 

We have also come to the conclusion that God either does not exist or does not give shit about the world or humanity, or is simply impotent to act.

 

As for your experiences of faith healing - everything you mentioned can also be explained as the psychological impact of soothing words or human touch, and are likely temporary. Those experiences also could have been setup ahead of time or you could also have simply constructed all of those incidents in your imagination. 

 

So, you stated that you do not intend to sound offensive, and I believe you, but you are. And your basic assertion is typical of what we have encountered when honestly approaching a pastor or a devout friend or relative in our quest for the truth. 

 

I invite you to visit this site on a regular basis and read read read. Keep an open mind. Read some Hitchens and Carrier and Dawkins. Perhaps one day you will realize that you have been affected by the god virus, that the Bible is a collection of literature and not history, and that you can be free of the fear of Hell.

 

    - MOHO (Mind Of His Own) 

 

 

[yunea]

Yes, indeed. I thought my life was a conversation with God through signs, emotions, thoughts, other people. My hands would heat up during prayer and people would experience pain relief. I experienced many "healings" too but they all turned out to be me refusing to acknowledge the pain, dissociating it away. 

 

It hurts the most, I think, when you've been living like your relationship with Jesus is the one thing in your life you cannot lose no matter what, and then it's gone. That happened to me. I nearly died. I wanted to, I had someone hold me down physically so I did not harm myself. It wasn't boredom with church rituals, it wasn't that i was trying to have a relationship with a book. I thought I really had the real thing, Jesus walking with me through my life. 

 

However, these days I'm more gentle and loving than I was as Xtian. My hands still heat up the same way, and it seems something flows through my hands that calms down pets (and people too), I took very long to dare to try it but it still works. I also speak in tongues to help myself focus when I meditate. It works very well for that.

 

How do you know it's Biblegod, donthodl, and not just abilities and sensitivities that some people happen to have for no particular divine reason? Why do similar things happen in so many religions and spiritual practices - feeling close to gods/spirits/Gaia, a type of touch that calms and seems to boost healing (well, all gentle touch does, so there's that even if the "flow of energy" is just a trick of my mind), feeling peace and kindness towards the fellow humans and the planet? 

[Joshpantera]

On 8/1/2018 at 10:15 AM, donthodl said:

This is an honest question. One thing that I've noticed after reading many of the stories as people said they grew up in a Christian home, or they got involved in Church, they did ministry, they went on Missions or whatever it way. I haven't heard anyone say they had a personal relationship with Jesus, witnessed signs and wonders, healings, the blind see, demons cast out etc as in the book of Acts and New Testament.

 

 

Well then you've missed that. Because many people have declared all or some of the above. We're made up of many different denominations of ex christians. 

 

On 8/1/2018 at 10:15 AM, donthodl said:

In a sense could I now walk away from Jesus and say, "it's not for me?" It would be basically impossible. Yes there's ups and downs and have a normal life, but know that the life following Jesus is one of the Spirit, not of the flesh. It's not about sitting in church, while someone preaches. That's ok, but how much faith is required to listen to someone else? That's why it says be doers not hears only.

 

It's not impossible, though. Many here were once more pious than yourself, among clergy, studying to be clergy, etc. Zealous evangelizing, faith healing, speaking in tongues, etc., etc. There's nothing new under the sun for this community. And yet, upon waking up and realizing inside that the fairy tale is not literally true, the whole game was over just like that. The problem here is that you're clearly engaged in a form of self delusion. It's difficult for you to see it because you're right in the middle of it and are not looking in from an objective outside perspective. But it's very obvious for those who were once in your shoes and have since opened up and moved forward. 

 

For instance, many of us have experienced the world through eyes very similar to your own. But you have not experienced the world through the eyes we see through now. So that puts you at a disadvantage among an audience like this, where we know you but you do not know us, at least not yet. 

 

We'll see how history unfolds.....

[Geezer]

Your posts is evidence of a deeply, deeply, indoctrinated mind. An indoctrinated/brainwashed mind is an absolute necessity for all religions. You can likely look at a Muslim and acknowledge they have been brainwashed, but you can't see the same thing has been done to you. And that is common. 

 

Why aren't you a Mormon, a Scientologist, a Muslim,  or one of the other many religious choices? It's because you recognize those are manmade religions, but you can't connect the dots and see that Christianity is just another one of many manmade religions.

 

If you stop reading and listening to apologist and start reading real religious historians you will discover the Bible is nothing more than a collection of ancient myths. There is no historical Jesus in history for a reason. No such person ever existed. He is a fictional character in a fictional story. The 4 gospels contradict each other because different authors added and took away stuff they wanted changed.

 

And here is another shocker for you. Paul was probably a literary character too. The evidence suggest Simon Magus & Marcion were the real authors of the Epistles & the founders of Christianity. 

 

You have been hoodwinked sir. You have been brainwashed into believing a children's fairy tale was based on real people and real historical events, but they are all just myths like all other religions.

 

Hopefully you finding this site will be a wake up call that will lead you back to reality. 

 

 

 

[SerenelyBlue]

I was a true Christian, fell away from the true path.  Now I am a Christian again.  You can be a true Christian an lose your soul to the devil.

[disillusioned]

4 hours ago, donthodl said:

Did you know God before giving up on the faith? To that I know you'll say. God doesn't exist, so it's impossible to know Him. If that is your response, then you weren't actually a believer to start with. If believing was doing Christian practices, such as attending Church and playing in the worship band.

 

This is laughable. You are correct, my honest response is that I didn't know God, because he doesn't exist, so no one knows him. But I thought I knew him. I believed I did. Much in the same way that you believe you know him now. If you seriously think your "you weren't really a believer to start with" line is either novel or persuasive, you're just being silly. I confessed with my mouth, and believed in my heart, and hence, I was saved.

 

There is nothing new, interesting, or persuasive in your post. But still. Cool story, bro.

[Intheory]

I knew a god.  He was vengeful, arbitrary, and whimsical.  I surrendered most of my life to him and did all of the spirit-filled activities.  And then I walked away and excorcised that god and started healing.

I am not an atheist per se, but I can't see myself ever being a theist again.

Don't assume that people didn't have genuine experiences just because it doesn't fit your narrative and worldview.

 

[Realist]

5 hours ago, florduh said:

Wow, that was a rather lengthy way to say, "You were never a real Christian anyway." Thanks, because we never heard that one before.

 

Thanks for playing!

 

... and do not forget, he also has a relationship .... not a religion! 

[Realist]

4 hours ago, pratt said:

hope all the doctors are out of jobs now amd hospitals closed in australia

 

oh wait. there are still doctors and hospitals in australia

... arhhh .... he is Australian! Say no more!!! 

[TrailBlazer]

Wow, you really put a good deal of thought into this question, kudos. 

To answer simply, yes. I did believe that I had a true, deeply personal relationship with God. But now I do not believe in the existence of such a deity, so therefore I suppose I cannot have had a relationship with something that didn’t exist in the first place. 

[Tsathoggua9]

I gotta admit, deep down, I never really took it that seriously. So it actually would be accurate for someone to say, "You were never a real Christian anyway." 

[Geezer]

Oh yeah donthodl, quoting the Bible, as God's personally inspired words and therefor the ultimate supreme source of authority for all mankind, to people that aren't believers is a really poor strategy. We understand the Bible to be a collection of myths, aka fictional stories with fictional characters, so we don't believe the Bible is in any sense of the word true much less that it's sacred. 

 

 

 

 

[TrailBlazer]

2 minutes ago, Tsathoggua9 said:

I gotta admit, deep down, I never really took it that seriously. So it actually would be accurate for someone to say, "You were never a real Christian anyway." 

I respect and appreciate your honesty! We really do all come from different backgrounds, after all 

[Geezer]

I wonder why it matters to a believer whether any of us were "really" ever Christians in the first place. What does that have to do with our present status? I think the question should be, "Why aren't we believers now?" That seems to me the question you should be asking donthodl. In order to "save" us you have to know why we left the faith and then you have to come up with reasons that will overcome why we left. 

 

In other words, you'll have to come up with better reasons for us to be Christians than we have reasons for not being Christians. And that is going to take some time and intensive study and research into the origins and evolution of both the Bible and the Christian faith. 

[ToHellWithMe]

Of course not. I had some interesting, delightful feelings induced by thought experiments but there's nothing I could look back at and think "Oh yeah I used to truly know God".

[Geezer]

3 hours ago, SerenelyBlue said:

I was a true Christian, fell away from the true path.  Now I am a Christian again.  You can be a true Christian an lose your soul to the devil.

 

Hold that thought because SB has a history of changing sides. He is a Christian today, but he may not be a Christian next month. His "faith" seems to ebb and flow with the meds he's taking. And that is not meant as a slur towards SB. I like him. He's a good guy, and he's certainly welcome here, but his faith tends to be a little fickle and he has some issues that he's getting professional help with. 

 

Whichever way he ends up I wish him well. If he's happier as a Christian then that's where he belongs. 

 

[donthodl]

I do thank you for your honest responses. I find it very interesting.

 

First to mention I'm no expert. I was brought up around church, but hated going and didn't really want to be a part of it at all. For myself that changed when I went to a Youth Camp and got baptized in the Holy Spirit. If you believe in this or not, my life from that moment on took a drastic change. The next year I decided to go to a bible school / music school in Sydney. Strangely enough the very first night I suddenly felt this demonic presence enter the room and a pattern of lights shine on the wall, as well as saw a demonic skull like face. You could say it was just an illusion or in the mind, but I could feel it and nothing ever like that had happened before. I knew that my shift in direction was meeting some opposition.

 

Yunea metioned that they had seen people healed and energy flow. I have the exact conversation on a weekly basis with people in my office, many are into New Age or Reiki. While Reiki and various other forms of healing appear similar, they aren't. Yes the devil is happy if there's a spirit causing the sickness, to stop the sickness as long as the person is still bound. We see throughout the bible Moses and the Magicians, many of the same tricks they could do also. In Acts 16:18, we see the slave girl with a spirit of divination and Paul commanded the spirit to leave and it did. I myself witnessed this when I prayed for my friend who's into New Age, as he had a strange sickness that no one has been able to cure. As soon as I laid hands on him, he said, "Get this thing out of me". And kept commanding this spirit to leave. He used to be a total skeptic, but now knows it's real. He said he felt this thing from inside of him come up and leave out his mouth.

So yes I'm not denying that hearings can happen without knowing God, I'm just saying the source is different.

 

Why I'm not a Mormon, a Scientologist or a Muslim: Without going right into those religions and how they came about. I'd say, because they're dead religions. Both Mormonism and Islam accept Jesus as a Prophet, but deny the divinity of Christ. In both Mormonism and Islam an angel appeared and gave them the new revelation. In Islam the angel forced itself upon Muhammad several times and Muhammad also attempted suicide after. I mean that in itself, it doesn't sound like Muhammad really wanted this revelation.

It's just interesting there's all these religions that start with the Torah or have similar ideas, but have moved away from them, to take away from the divinity of Christ.

 

To answer ultimately do I have an exact answer? I'd say because my first experience was being baptized in the Holy Spirit I knew in myself that it was right (you may disagree), but something in me knew it was right. I have a real relationship with Jesus and pray for people everywhere I go. Yes there are still hospitals and they have their purpose, but sometimes doctors can't cure everyone. None of the other religions looked appealing at all.

 

[LogicalFallacy]

@donthodl I'll reply more fully to your OP later, but very quickly:

 

I have a friend who lost his fingers in an accident as a teen. I understand your God has healing powers. My friend is a Christian, though I'm obviously not. He has prayed, the family has prayed, fingers still missing. However from your story it appears you have a connection to God. Can you pray for my friend please? (God will know who you are praying for) If his fingers grow back you have an instant convert and a grateful friend.

 

Don't bother with excuses like its God's will etc etc etc. We've heard that.

[disillusioned]

I too have felt "demonic" presences, witnessed "healings", felt the presence of the "holy spirit", etcetera, etcetera.

 

@donthodl, I don't doubt your sincerity. But I will say it again: none of this is new,  and none of it is convincing.

[sdelsolray]

This one is a nutter.

[donthodl]

36 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

@donthodl I'll reply more fully to your OP later, but very quickly:

 

I have a friend who lost his fingers in an accident as a teen. I understand your God has healing powers. My friend is a Christian, though I'm obviously not. He has prayed, the family has prayed, fingers still missing. However from your story it appears you have a connection to God. Can you pray for my friend please? (God will know who you are praying for) If his fingers grow back you have an instant convert and a grateful friend.

 

Don't bother with excuses like its God's will etc etc etc. We've heard that.

 

Yes I absolutely believe that God can heal missing fingers.

 

No I haven't seen someone's limbs instantly grow back. I have seen peoples legs literally grow out though.

 

I met a lady a few weeks ago, she had a about 5-10 skin cancers on her arm and side of her face. Her choice was to not get them treated and they had gotten very bad. I couldn't beleive how bad it was when she removed the bandages.
I prayed for her for maybe 10 minutes and actually spoke a lot of things while praying that she said after were excatly what had been going on in her life.
I saw this lady a few days ago and the bandages are gone and all the sores and skin cancers are completely healed. There's a few tiny specs like a small pimple left.

So yes I totally believe a finger can grow back, but in most cases for myself I'm found praying in person to work better. I know God isn't limited and have prayed for someone and a demon left them during the night 500Kms away and they woke up and felt it.

 

 

[florduh]

Okay, I had a response but deleted it. After all, what's the point?

 

Have fun, I just can't.