Did you actually know God, before giving up?

[Joshpantera]

1 hour ago, donthodl said:

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

 

No, that's not the greatest trick. A much greater trick would be convincing everyone on earth that he IS god, jesus, and so on. So that every, single (without exception) christian based belief and / or denomination which thinks they're worshiping jesus, are really worshiping the devil. And that everyone proselytizing in the name of jesus, would in fact be proselytizing for the devil completely unconscious of the fact that the devil was present at every turn, the bible, every denomination, every religion today including christianity.

 

Think about it, atheists are a small minority world wide. Convincing a small minority that he doesn't exist is the greatest trick? That's just stupid. But convincing the entire world religious MAJORITY that the devil is each and every one of their gods, including all the christians, that would be the greatest trick of all time....

 

You gotta aim a little higher buddy. 

[TruthSeeker0]

1 hour ago, donthodl said:

Some of you are saying you'd believe if you saw a finger grow back or a miracle. We see after Jesus raised Lazareth from the dead, many were amazed and believed, but the religious leaders of the time, said "We must kill him". They'd also seen Jesus heal and it's mostly mentioned on the Sabbath day, but even with the miracles they chose to be annoyed that the healing happened on the Sabbath and not so much care for the healing itself. So even if the finger were to grow back it's unlikely that it would change your mind.

 

Another thing that's I've been talking about and no one has mentioned is deliverance. Jesus didn't preach about actual healing or deliverance, but was just about setting people free. I've seen a few people set free from demons, including my atheist skeptic friend, who 100% admitted he had something within him that left out of his mouth. He also told me one time his old girl friend who had a lot of problems. One day he was looking at her and within her eye itself ignited a fire then went out again. You can see dozens of videos about similar things where magicians are doing tricks or those involved in witchcraft and their eyes will change to like cat eyes. David Icke has noticed this also and he thinks it's shape shifters or a reptilian race, but my prospective I know it's just people that have demons.

I don't know how long you've hung around these forums, but if you've read enough you would have realized that people here don't regard the bible and the stuff within it as the infallible truth. At best, it's a collection of writings inspired by people such as Jesus, who either existed, or did not exist, at the time. If you start with reading Ehrman and many of the other biblical scholars talked about on these forums, you could add up the evidence on your own and come to the realistic conclusion that the fact that something was recorded, or written down, does not mean that it's true.

 

You can't know that people have demons. You think that people have demons. You are an indoctrinated Christian and think as such.

1 hour ago, donthodl said:

 

 

One point that I talk about a lot is Heavy Metal bands and their singing about Christian ideas as well as the devil. I have some friends in a band and I said to them ACDC are a religious band because they sing about hell and the devil. Just because they say they aren't religious doesn't mean anything when you look at their lyrics. There are many bands and won't go into detail, but they sing about Christian consents, or burn the Christians and let satan rule etc. You don't hear Heavy Metal bands though sing about Buddah, Muhammad at all or with the same hatred aimed at them.

Why do so many of these bands have a common theme and all seem to have a focus around satan? I just mean it's a bit more of a coincidence. Bands such as Behexen, Behemoth, Dissection, Dark Funeral, Gorgoroth, Deicide and many others. People flock to listen to these bands and all would say they hate religion, but are knowingly worshiping satan. Like the movie The Usual Suspects movie has the quote "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

Just look up the lyrics from any of these bands and they are actually giving praises to satan. Talk about killing Christians or prophets and so many of their ideas in their songs relate directly back to the bible and the ideology of satan.

 

Can I say it again? Let's start with whether the bible is infallible, or not. You aren't convincing anyone here. Most of us don't operate at all on the same premise that you do - that the bible is infallible and what it claims is true. Far from it.

[Casey]

"Healings," and "Miracles," can easily be set up by Pentecostals, Charismatics and other Holy Rollers to entice the gullible. They do these things in the same way as the old Spiritualists used to do them, by setting things up beforehand. People who are perfectly capable of walking, for example, can be tasked with sitting in wheelchairs for a while until, Lo! they are miraculously healed! And it's not hard to get hold of a few crutches etc, either, for people who don't need them. Then there are other things which are more in the province of legerdemain, such as the aforementioned, "Lengthening of Limbs."  Christianity has a history of "Lying for God," going right back to the Donation of Constantine and various medieval, "Pious Frauds."

It's no wonder Christians don't like Spiritualist mediums and the like. No one is more critical of you than your closest relations.
Casey

[pratt]

this guy is funny and a keeper. 

 

hardly have such a species coming our way to tell us

 

god is real 

demon is real

raising the dead is real

amputees can grow their limbs is real 

heavy metal is evil is real

demons can be detected and delivered is real

 

 

 

 

 

 

[midniterider]

7 hours ago, donthodl said:

Another thing that's I've been talking about and no one has mentioned is deliverance. Jesus didn't preach about actual healing or deliverance, but was just about setting people free. I've seen a few people set free from demons, including my atheist skeptic friend, who 100% admitted he had something within him that left out of his mouth. He also told me one time his old girl friend who had a lot of problems. One day he was looking at her and within her eye itself ignited a fire then went out again. You can see dozens of videos about similar things where magicians are doing tricks or those involved in witchcraft and their eyes will change to like cat eyes. David Icke has noticed this also and he thinks it's shape shifters or a reptilian race, but my prospective I know it's just people that have demons.

 

 

 

Did you say, Deliverance?

 

 

 

[ToHellWithMe]

1 hour ago, pratt said:

this guy is funny and a keeper. 

 

hardly have such a species coming our way to tell us

 

god is real 

demon is real

raising the dead is real

amputees can grow their limbs is real 

heavy metal is evil is real

demons can be detected and delivered is real

 

It's a position so weak it's kind of a defense in itself. Like why even bother engaging?

[★ Citsonga ★]

10 hours ago, donthodl said:

Ok look I know I'm not going to convince you.

 

Then why are you trying?

 

10 hours ago, donthodl said:

For me though my life has never been better.

 

That's good, but enjoying your life does not prove that your worldview is true. There are people of many different views who are just fine with their lives.

 

10 hours ago, donthodl said:

We do filter everything through our world view. If we believe there's no God we see everything in a way that people are just stupid and delusional, who say there is. If we believe in God, we see the world vastly different and the same goes for many other religions and cultures.

 

This is rather insulting in that you imply that we started with a worldview opposed to "God." You are completely ignoring the fact that we are ex-christians. Most of us started with belief in God. That's what we were taught; it's how we were raised. We did not come to our current position because of a bias against God. We were biased in favor of God. Many of us, myself included, built our whole lives around belief in God, Christianity in particular. It was only after seeing mounting evidence against Christianity that the Christian worldview was found to be seriously flawed. Evidence, logic, and reason dragged us reluctantly from the faith.

 

10 hours ago, donthodl said:

Some of you are saying you'd believe if you saw a finger grow back or a miracle. We see after Jesus raised Lazareth from the dead, many were amazed and believed, but the religious leaders of the time, said "We must kill him". They'd also seen Jesus heal and it's mostly mentioned on the Sabbath day, but even with the miracles they chose to be annoyed that the healing happened on the Sabbath and not so much care for the healing itself. So even if the finger were to grow back it's unlikely that it would change your mind.

 

Stories from a book we've discovered to be fiction will hold no more sway on us than stories of Santa Claus. Why is that so hard for Christians to understand?

 

Anyway, that's enough for me. You clearly have zero evidence to offer. That's no surprise, of course, since Christians have been trying for thousands of years to prove their case and have never succeeded yet. Enjoy your delusion....

 

 

 

 

[midniterider]

15 hours ago, donthodl said:

Ok look I know I'm not going to convince you. For me though my life has never been better. We do filter everything through our world view. If we believe there's no God we see everything in a way that people are just stupid and delusional, who say there is. If we believe in God, we see the world vastly different and the same goes for many other religions and cultures.

 

See "shape shifters, reptilian race, fire igniting in someone's eye, then going out again." I was a Pentecostal but nobody ever said stuff like that in my church. This is Alex Jones type baloney.

 

15 hours ago, donthodl said:

 

Some of you are saying you'd believe if you saw a finger grow back or a miracle. We see after Jesus raised Lazareth from the dead, many were amazed and believed, but the religious leaders of the time, said "We must kill him". They'd also seen Jesus heal and it's mostly mentioned on the Sabbath day, but even with the miracles they chose to be annoyed that the healing happened on the Sabbath and not so much care for the healing itself. So even if the finger were to grow back it's unlikely that it would change your mind.

 

Why are you arguing fiction (the bible) with reality?

 

 

15 hours ago, donthodl said:

 

Another thing that's I've been talking about and no one has mentioned is deliverance. Jesus didn't preach about actual healing or deliverance, but was just about setting people free. I've seen a few people set free from demons, including my atheist skeptic friend, who 100% admitted he had something within him that left out of his mouth. He also told me one time his old girl friend who had a lot of problems. One day he was looking at her and within her eye itself ignited a fire then went out again. You can see dozens of videos about similar things where magicians are doing tricks or those involved in witchcraft and their eyes will change to like cat eyes. David Icke has noticed this also and he thinks it's shape shifters or a reptilian race, but my prospective I know it's just people that have demons.

 

 

One point that I talk about a lot is Heavy Metal bands and their singing about Christian ideas as well as the devil. I have some friends in a band and I said to them ACDC are a religious band because they sing about hell and the devil. Just because they say they aren't religious doesn't mean anything when you look at their lyrics. There are many bands and won't go into detail, but they sing about Christian consents, or burn the Christians and let satan rule etc. You don't hear Heavy Metal bands though sing about Buddah, Muhammad at all or with the same hatred aimed at them.

Why do so many of these bands have a common theme and all seem to have a focus around satan? I just mean it's a bit more of a coincidence. Bands such as Behexen, Behemoth, Dissection, Dark Funeral, Gorgoroth, Deicide and many others. People flock to listen to these bands and all would say they hate religion, but are knowingly worshiping satan. Like the movie The Usual Suspects movie has the quote "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

Just look up the lyrics from any of these bands and they are actually giving praises to satan. Talk about killing Christians or prophets and so many of their ideas in their songs relate directly back to the bible and the ideology of satan.

You cannot sing songs to Jesus all day and even in your career and then say, "I"m an atheist." It's the same you can't sing songs about satan and demons all day to then say, "I'm an atheist."
The term occult in Latin is occultus which means "clandestine, hidden, secret". Of course there's a reason to be hidden. If people knew the truth they would never allow satan to get a grip on them.

 

Don't forget Combichrist in your list.

 

I neither sing songs to Jesus, nor Satan. A  lot of what I listen to is instrumental. Nor am I an atheist, nor a Christian.

 

It may be time to start a thread on "the enemy" vs paranoid delusion. I've seen it recently on social media.

 

 

[Joshpantera]

On 8/6/2018 at 2:45 AM, midniterider said:

 

Did you say, Deliverance?

 

 

 

 

I've had this scene going on in my head all day now!

[donthodl]

Guys with regards to Heavy Metal music all I was pointing out is how similar they are what they have in common. You'll notice they don't show hatred for Buddah, The East Bunny, Santa Clause  or other religions, but pick out specifically Christianity. Islam is one of the biggest religions in the world, why not write songs about Muhammad?  What I was aiming to emphasize is how similar these concerts are to church. People go and sing songs to satan and lift up their hands as if in worship. I'm not saying all bands are straight out worshiping satan, but some are.

 

Look I know it's only the Holy Spirit alone who can convince any of you and the same in Jesus time. Many believed, but the religious leaders with their acquired knowledge couldn't stand Jesus.

 

Ok I know there's a lot of videos on YouTube and you'll say their all fake.

 

The Discovery Channel interviewed Bruce Van Natta after being claims of his intestines regrowing after being crushed by a truck. The Discovery Channel didn't actually want to support his view and wanted to prove that it was wrong. In the end they couldn't argue with the medical evidence.

 

"The surgeons couldn't understand how Bruce Van Natta's heart was still beating after the giant truck had almost cut him into two pieces and severed 5 major arteries. The surgeons stopped the incredible bleeding and then removed a large part of his small intestine."

 

Bruce Carlson, from Walden, NY, felt God tell him to go to Wisconsin and pray for Van Natta. Carlson and a mutual friend named Brian, went to his hospital room. There Carlson laid hands on Bruce Van Natta and commanded his small intestines to grow in the name of Jesus Christ.(John 14:13,14) Suddenly Van Natta felt electricity come out of his hands and go into his own forehead and down to his stomach area. Van Natta felt his intestines wiggle and move around. He instantly told Carlson and Brian that he felt as though a snake had uncoiled in his stomach.

Bruce Van Natta immediately started gaining weight! His doctors were confused. They ordered an upper G.I. Track X-ray exam. The doctors couldn't believe what they were seeing. Senior radiologist Andrew Taylor confirmed in writing that Bruce Van Natta now had 9.84 feet(300 cm) of small intestines.   Before and after X-rays, CT scans and Doppler scans proved that Van Natta's small intestines had tripled in length due to the prayers for him in Jesus's name. This is a fact.

Furthermore, Dr. Michael Schurr operated on Van Natta again after the upper G.I. Track  X-rays showed that his small intestines had tripled. Dr. Schurr and the operative assistants saw the Christ-regrown small intestines with their own eyes. This is a fact.

The History Channel's atheistic "Miracles Decoded" series aimed to disprove miracles. Yet when they interviewed Dr.Michael Schurr and saw the clear evidence of the before and after medical imaging of Van Natta's intestines, even they had to admit on TV that there is no natural explanation for Bruce Van Natta's small intestine's huge regrowth. 

Bruce Van Natta is a healthy 160 pounds today and directs Sweet Bread Ministries.

Max Davis tells us that this miracle story has extremely reliable sources. To continue to disbelieve in miracles or in Jesus Christ, who is the God of miracles, is to simply refuse to acknowledge the facts.

References:

1) Bruce Van Natta(2013) Saved By Angels(Permission given to quote.)

2)Max Davis(2012) The Insanity of Disbelief: A Journalist's Journey from Belief to Skepticism to Deep Faith(Permission given to quote.)

3) Notes that I took during a telephone conversation with Bruce Van Natta on December 23,2017.

 

 

 

[sdelsolray]

This one does not understand what the term "evidence" means.

[florduh]

I know a guy who saw Bigfoot. It turns out that Bigfoot is actually blurry and all those blurry pictures are not blurry after all. <mic drop>

 

[TruthSeeker0]

4 hours ago, donthodl said:

Bruce Van Natta is a healthy 160 pounds today and directs Sweet Bread Ministries.

Max Davis tells us that this miracle story has extremely reliable sources. To continue to disbelieve in miracles or in Jesus Christ, who is the God of miracles, is to simply refuse to acknowledge the facts.

 

You're not telling us anything new. People attribute "miracles" to whatever deity it is they believe in. And the Christian god is far from the only deity that people believe in.

 

The fact that something awesome happened to someone somewhere once upon a time does nada to prove the existence of the christian god.

[duderonomy]

4 hours ago, donthodl said:

Guys with regards to Heavy Metal music all I was pointing out is how similar they are what they have in common. You'll notice they don't show hatred for Buddah, The East Bunny, Santa Clause  or other religions, but pick out specifically Christianity. Islam is one of the biggest religions in the world, why not write songs about Muhammad?  What I was aiming to emphasize is how similar these concerts are to church. People go and sing songs to satan and lift up their hands as if in worship. I'm not saying all bands are straight out worshiping satan, but some are.

 

Look I know it's only the Holy Spirit alone who can convince any of you and the same in Jesus time. Many believed, but the religious leaders with their acquired knowledge couldn't stand Jesus.

 

Ok I know there's a lot of videos on YouTube and you'll say their all fake.

 

The Discovery Channel interviewed Bruce Van Natta after being claims of his intestines regrowing after being crushed by a truck. The Discovery Channel didn't actually want to support his view and wanted to prove that it was wrong. In the end they couldn't argue with the medical evidence.

 

"The surgeons couldn't understand how Bruce Van Natta's heart was still beating after the giant truck had almost cut him into two pieces and severed 5 major arteries. The surgeons stopped the incredible bleeding and then removed a large part of his small intestine."

 

Bruce Carlson, from Walden, NY, felt God tell him to go to Wisconsin and pray for Van Natta. Carlson and a mutual friend named Brian, went to his hospital room. There Carlson laid hands on Bruce Van Natta and commanded his small intestines to grow in the name of Jesus Christ.(John 14:13,14) Suddenly Van Natta felt electricity come out of his hands and go into his own forehead and down to his stomach area. Van Natta felt his intestines wiggle and move around. He instantly told Carlson and Brian that he felt as though a snake had uncoiled in his stomach.

Bruce Van Natta immediately started gaining weight! His doctors were confused. They ordered an upper G.I. Track X-ray exam. The doctors couldn't believe what they were seeing. Senior radiologist Andrew Taylor confirmed in writing that Bruce Van Natta now had 9.84 feet(300 cm) of small intestines.   Before and after X-rays, CT scans and Doppler scans proved that Van Natta's small intestines had tripled in length due to the prayers for him in Jesus's name. This is a fact.

Furthermore, Dr. Michael Schurr operated on Van Natta again after the upper G.I. Track  X-rays showed that his small intestines had tripled. Dr. Schurr and the operative assistants saw the Christ-regrown small intestines with their own eyes. This is a fact.

The History Channel's atheistic "Miracles Decoded" series aimed to disprove miracles. Yet when they interviewed Dr.Michael Schurr and saw the clear evidence of the before and after medical imaging of Van Natta's intestines, even they had to admit on TV that there is no natural explanation for Bruce Van Natta's small intestine's huge regrowth. 

Bruce Van Natta is a healthy 160 pounds today and directs Sweet Bread Ministries.

Max Davis tells us that this miracle story has extremely reliable sources. To continue to disbelieve in miracles or in Jesus Christ, who is the God of miracles, is to simply refuse to acknowledge the facts.

References:

1) Bruce Van Natta(2013) Saved By Angels(Permission given to quote.)

2)Max Davis(2012) The Insanity of Disbelief: A Journalist's Journey from Belief to Skepticism to Deep Faith(Permission given to quote.)

3) Notes that I took during a telephone conversation with Bruce Van Natta on December 23,2017.

 

 

 

 

 

Heavy Metal music isn't Satanic. To me, it's just sucky music. I even wrote and performed a song back in the Eighties called "Heavy Metal Holiday".  It sucked too.

Plus, if money could be made from singing about the nemesis of Buddha, someone would be doing it. I'd love to hear a band singing about the devilishness of Islam, but IMHO heavy metal music is all about the rebellion of spoiled rich kids that are pissed off about something but they aren't sure what. 

 

Donthodl, have you ever wondered why this Van Natta guy felt a snake moving around in his belly or at least the half of it that was left?  I mean, I know you have the heavyweight History Channel behind your story and we all know how cable TV channels are just out to tell the truth and not to make money, i.e. Shark Week, plus we have the...never mind. I can't even.

 

The fact is all you have to show Christianity is the Bible, and that would be the Bible that the Catholic church gave you after omitting several "books".  Pretty sure you won't get it if I say that it's amazing how the puddle fits the pothole.

 

TV shows don't count. Preachers don't count. The Bible might count if you can show that it is the "Word of God". Until then you have superstition and false hope and faith in nothing solid. 

 

Show us proof that "the Bible" is true before you move into the realm of cable TV, ok? Too much to ask? I mean, you have the Holy Ghost right there inside of you, right? So deliver the goods.

[duderonomy]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+137&amp;version=NIV

18 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

Why would a god you worship do the things to children as stated in Psalms 137:9?  You worship a monster.  You are like the hostages of thugs who actually take the side of your hostage taker.  

 

I used to  think that too, but I'm not sure that one isolated verse means what we think it means.  Here's what I found when I did a search for the whole Psalm...

 

(NIV)

Psalm 137

1 By the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept
    when we remembered Zion.
2 There on the poplars
    we hung our harps,
3 for there our captors asked us for songs,
    our tormentors demanded songs of joy;
    they said, “Sing us one of the songs of Zion!”

4 How can we sing the songs of the Lord
    while in a foreign land?
5 If I forget you, Jerusalem,
    may my right hand forget its skill.
6 May my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth
    if I do not remember you,
if I do not consider Jerusalem
    my highest joy.

7 Remember, Lord, what the Edomites did
    on the day Jerusalem fell.
“Tear it down,” they cried,
    “tear it down to its foundations!”
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
    happy is the one who repays you
    according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants
    and dashes them against the rocks.

 

It just sounds like someone is pissed. Eye for an eye kind of stuff. Aren't Psalms just songs? Think of it as Hebrew Heavy Metal. 

 

Don't know. Just saying. 

 

[Casey]

It would have been more practical for your alleged God to have warned Mr Van Natta, "Never get under any vehicle which is supported only by a jack!" That tends to prevent accidents like that happening in the first place.

Casey

[duderonomy]

5 minutes ago, Casey said:

It would have been more practical for your alleged God to have warned Mr Van Natta, "Never get under any vehicle which is supported only by a jack!" That tends to prevent accidents like that happening in the first place.

Casey

 

Aha! Jesus saw this coming thousands of years ago...

 

"Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."  

 

Plus, where in the testimony of the Discovery Channel did it say that Mr. Van Natta was under a truck supported by a jack? Did I miss something, or is donthodl giving us misinformation?

 

Gawd, now I don't know what to believe. I wish I had cable so I could find the truth.

 

 

[Casey]

23 minutes ago, duderonomy said:

Plus, where in the testimony of the Discovery Channel did it say that Mr. Van Natta was under a truck supported by a jack? Did I miss something, or is donthodl giving us misinformation?

 

At 55 seconds in.

Casey

 

[Astreja]

I don't find the story convincing at all.  Was this "miracle" ever written up in an actual medical journal?

[duderonomy]

8 minutes ago, Casey said:

 

At 55 seconds in.

Casey

 

 

Well now I'm convinced.  Drama, bullshit, cheap CGI angels, it's all true!  Thanks Casey for putting up the vid. I know that doesn't mean you endorse it, but I hadn't seen it.

 

I was a doubter before but after seeing this TV production I'm convinced.

 

If God ever hesitates again to heal childhood brain cancer, just drop a big rig on the kids and miracles will happen. 

 

 

[duderonomy]

4 minutes ago, Astreja said:

I don't find the story convincing at all.  Was this "miracle" ever written up in an actual medical journal?

 

Medical Journal? I'm guessing no. But it was on cable television. How much proof do you need? 

[Astreja]

6 hours ago, donthodl said:

Look I know it's only the Holy Spirit alone who can convince any of you and the same in Jesus time.

 

Well, Don, I see no functional difference between the Holy Spirit and Satan in Christian mythology.  They're both sock puppets that your alleged god permits to tinker with humans' thoughts and emotions, so that we either get "saved" or "damned" depending on what your alleged god has already fucking decided is going to happen to us.

Assuming for one wild-ass moment that any of the above beings actually existed, for all we know Satan is the Good Cop and the HS was sent to lead people into the unforgivable evil of accepting the human sacrifice of Jesus.  Substitutionary atonement is immoral pig crap, so anything that compels humans to accept it must likewise be not on the up-and-up.

 

(And yes, I know I just committed the Unforgivable Sin.  It's a hobby of mine.)

 

[Casey]

One reasonably thought out refutation of the "miracle."

https://www.freethunk.net/freethunk-news-bites/bruce-van-natta-grows-intestines-say-what-2949

 

The author first saw this story on The 700 Club, which is run by Pat Robertson, a well known Christian liar. The author is not critical of Mr Van Natta, whom he regards as an honest man, but he does point out many things which are more sensationalism than they are fact.

Casey

[mwc]

On 8/5/2018 at 4:04 PM, donthodl said:

Some of you are saying you'd believe if you saw a finger grow back or a miracle. We see after Jesus raised Lazareth from the dead, many were amazed and believed, but the religious leaders of the time, said "We must kill him". They'd also seen Jesus heal and it's mostly mentioned on the Sabbath day, but even with the miracles they chose to be annoyed that the healing happened on the Sabbath and not so much care for the healing itself. So even if the finger were to grow back it's unlikely that it would change your mind.

     According to the story jesus did raise Lazarus from the dead.  And no one was impressed.  How sad.

 

     Then there's the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (same guy?  who knows?) and we're told that someone coming back from the dead wouldn't convince anyone so it's not something that should be done.  So the rich man stays dead.

 

     But, and this is important, jesus dies.  And is brought back from the dead.  Contrary to what has already happened and what is explicitly stated to the rich man this is supposedly a monumental achievement.  Unlike any other.  Never heard of in all of human history.  Someone died and returned from the dead.  Amazing.  So amazing it should be used to convert people even though the rich man was told the opposite.

 

     Crazy set of stories.  Apparently if some guy named Lazarus is involved none of this is all that interesting but change the names and the rules change.  I'm sure you can add all the reasons why we need to make special exceptions for the one guy while none of the others that preceded him (and there are more than Lazarus) amount to nothing more than shrugs.

 

 

On 8/5/2018 at 4:04 PM, donthodl said:

 

 

One point that I talk about a lot is Heavy Metal bands and their singing about Christian ideas as well as the devil. I have some friends in a band and I said to them ACDC are a religious band because they sing about hell and the devil. Just because they say they aren't religious doesn't mean anything when you look at their lyrics. There are many bands and won't go into detail, but they sing about Christian consents, or burn the Christians and let satan rule etc. You don't hear Heavy Metal bands though sing about Buddah, Muhammad at all or with the same hatred aimed at them.

Why do so many of these bands have a common theme and all seem to have a focus around satan? I just mean it's a bit more of a coincidence. Bands such as Behexen, Behemoth, Dissection, Dark Funeral, Gorgoroth, Deicide and many others. People flock to listen to these bands and all would say they hate religion, but are knowingly worshiping satan. Like the movie The Usual Suspects movie has the quote "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

Just look up the lyrics from any of these bands and they are actually giving praises to satan. Talk about killing Christians or prophets and so many of their ideas in their songs relate directly back to the bible and the ideology of satan.

You cannot sing songs to Jesus all day and even in your career and then say, "I"m an atheist." It's the same you can't sing songs about satan and demons all day to then say, "I'm an atheist."
The term occult in Latin is occultus which means "clandestine, hidden, secret". Of course there's a reason to be hidden. If people knew the truth they would never allow satan to get a grip on them.

 

     I feel like I'm back in my xian grade school again.  This stuff is just crazy.  Others have addressed it.

 

     But people aren't going to use symbolism that is foreign to their audience and more so to themselves as song writers.  That would be stupid.  As a result you're going to get a shitload of xian symbolism.  As bands come up in these other cultures, and we become familiar with them, you'll probably see these themes in their music (I'm phrasing it that way since it may already exist but just not something I know).  Islam has lots of restrictions on these things so I imagine this will take some time.

 

     The greatest trick was convincing everyone he didn't exist?  How about the ("biblical") fact that he committed a grand rebellion, a prison was made especially for him and his fellow angels, but he apparently tricked the all-knowing god into letting him run riot over a perfect creation for an unknown amount of time instead of being immediately locked away?  There's no need to trick us humans if he's in jail but apparently running free is the better option for this ultimate, original, criminal.

 

     Now, I know, this bit with satan is part of god's perfect plan.  It's not for us to know.  Hidden.  You might say "occult."  And I just read something about things that were hidden and the truth...what was that?

 

          mwc

 

[mwc]

10 hours ago, donthodl said:

Bruce Carlson, from Walden, NY, felt God tell him to go to Wisconsin and pray for Van Natta. Carlson and a mutual friend named Brian, went to his hospital room. There Carlson laid hands on Bruce Van Natta and commanded his small intestines to grow in the name of Jesus Christ.(John 14:13,14) Suddenly Van Natta felt electricity come out of his hands and go into his own forehead and down to his stomach area. Van Natta felt his intestines wiggle and move around. He instantly told Carlson and Brian that he felt as though a snake had uncoiled in his stomach.

     So did no one else pray or did god not give a shit until this Bruce guy prayed?  Like only Bruce Carlson makes good enough prayers?  It seems like god knew this Van Natta guy was in some deep shit but held back helping until this Carlson dude dragged his ass around.  For what reason would you do a thing like that?  Hold off helping someone in this sort of need until your special guy could come around and beg you for the very help that you already knew was needed and you could have provided at any time prior?  The angels that came to visit didn't even bother helping.  They were useless (basically causing someone to black out is not aid in that situation).

 

10 hours ago, donthodl said:

Bruce Van Natta immediately started gaining weight! His doctors were confused. They ordered an upper G.I. Track X-ray exam. The doctors couldn't believe what they were seeing. Senior radiologist Andrew Taylor confirmed in writing that Bruce Van Natta now had 9.84 feet(300 cm) of small intestines.   Before and after X-rays, CT scans and Doppler scans proved that Van Natta's small intestines had tripled in length due to the prayers for him in Jesus's name. This is a fact.

Furthermore, Dr. Michael Schurr operated on Van Natta again after the upper G.I. Track  X-rays showed that his small intestines had tripled. Dr. Schurr and the operative assistants saw the Christ-regrown small intestines with their own eyes. This is a fact.

The History Channel's atheistic "Miracles Decoded" series aimed to disprove miracles. Yet when they interviewed Dr.Michael Schurr and saw the clear evidence of the before and after medical imaging of Van Natta's intestines, even they had to admit on TV that there is no natural explanation for Bruce Van Natta's small intestine's huge regrowth. 

Bruce Van Natta is a healthy 160 pounds today and directs Sweet Bread Ministries.

Max Davis tells us that this miracle story has extremely reliable sources. To continue to disbelieve in miracles or in Jesus Christ, who is the God of miracles, is to simply refuse to acknowledge the facts.

References:

1) Bruce Van Natta(2013) Saved By Angels(Permission given to quote.)

2)Max Davis(2012) The Insanity of Disbelief: A Journalist's Journey from Belief to Skepticism to Deep Faith(Permission given to quote.)

3) Notes that I took during a telephone conversation with Bruce Van Natta on December 23,2017.

     Why did Van Natta continue to have surgeries after his miracle?  He was healed, correct?  But I've read that he remained in this hospital and had more surgeries over a nine month period.  It may well be that his intestines weren't grown but were repaired in those operations.  So his viable, not missing, intestines went from a few short feet to double or triple that during his many operations.  Operations that would not have been needed, during a hospital stay that would have been unnecessary, if he would have been made whole in one miraculous moment.

 

     So, yeah, amazing he's alive.  Amazing medical help.  Miracle?  I'm going to say no.  The continued hospitalization and surgeries suggest otherwise.  Everything else played out in his mind (ie. the angels, miraculous feeling) which did probably play a strong role in his survival and recovery.

 

          mwc