1989 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Does anyone have an opinion on Matthew 27:51-3? Why is this part of the Gospels where the Saints rise from their graves and walk to Jerusalem not mentioned anywhere but there (beyond the obvious, of course). You'd think that if zombies walked around and were seen by many someone would have said or written about it. Hell, it's not even in the other Gospels. Has anyone heard (or experienced) this preached? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Obviously, it's a myth. The entire Bible is a collection of myths. None of it is literally or historically true. I'm sure some brain dead dumb ass fundamentantalist preacher has preached a sermon on this and proclaimed it was a real historical event. Why wouldn't they, since they believe the entire Bible is the literaral inspired words of God. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailBlazer Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 I suspect that there are differences in the gospel account of Matthew because this account was the one written for and preached to a Jewish-raised audience. The author placed particular importance on Old Testament prophesy fulfillment, Davidic bloodline, and messianic signs to appeal to the traditional Judaism mindset. The consept of ancient biblical prophets returning to walk the earth was probably somewhat familiar to the original audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 1 hour ago, 1989 said: Why is this part of the Gospels where the Saints rise from their graves and walk to Jerusalem not mentioned anywhere but there (beyond the obvious, of course). The author was engaging in creative license that he thought holy men like himself were entitled to. Somewhere in his imagination, he thought it would have been cool if this had happened, so he wrote it down as if it did happen. The entire Bible is written with the same approach. He already had a congregation of illiterate peasants under his spell, or he wouldn't have been writing a "gospel" in the first place. They would believe anything he said, just like all cult followers. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted August 3, 2018 Moderator Share Posted August 3, 2018 The Death of Jesus…51At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. 52The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people.… Matthew 27:51-53 http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=28567 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 The zombies rose up, found nice wives and had little mixed-life children. mwc 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted August 3, 2018 Moderator Share Posted August 3, 2018 15 hours ago, 1989 said: Does anyone have an opinion on Matthew 27:51-3? Why is this part of the Gospels where the Saints rise from their graves and walk to Jerusalem not mentioned anywhere but there (beyond the obvious, of course). You'd think that if zombies walked around and were seen by many someone would have said or written about it. Hell, it's not even in the other Gospels. Has anyone heard (or experienced) this preached? On the chart above it's not mentioned (alluded to as "halloween" C), but as you can see Matthew ramps up the miracle stories from Mark and then it increases over time. By John it's gone wild. It sounds like added effect for the ripping of the Temple veil story. The veil was apparently decorated with jewels to resemble the night sky, or the universe basically. So the symbolism of the veil ripping from top to bottom apparently relates to suggesting the old axiom, "as above so below." The heavens were torn apart right down to the earth, then the ground opens up and those down in sheol, I suppose, come wandering up, out, and into Jerusalem. That tends to show the distance between this audience and anyone who would have been alive in Jerusalem at the time, who would know that zombies were never seen or reported walking around. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989 Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 What? The writers of the Gospels made shit up? That's crazy! Seriously, for some reason it never really occurred to me that information wasn't as freely available as it is now, or even as it was when I was younger. Call it a mental block. I also have a semi-selective memory of the Gospels, as I haven't read them in years, so that may have something to do with it, as far as comparing the weirdness presented there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsathoggua9 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Yeah, it is a great little story about a mini-zombie apocalypse, nothing more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted August 4, 2018 Super Moderator Share Posted August 4, 2018 This particular passage was the first chink in the armor of biblical inerrancy for me. When I first started to question the veracity of the Bible, I honed in on Matthew 27....the story is just so ludicrous. I went to a few websites to see what apologists had to say, and frankly, it wasn't much. I read part of what Glenn Miller had to say on Christian Think Tank, but I think the response he wrote was dancing around the issue; I forget exactly what it was but I did not find his answer intellectually satisfying. Over time I just could not believe this was a historical event. A bunch of dead people come back to life and mosey around Jerusalem, and nobody takes notice!? There were historians from this area hanging around Jerusalem (Pliny? I cannot remember, but David Fitzgerald has a list of a few historians who were in this region at this time) and none of them wrote anything down about this event....yeah, right. If it was historical, it would be impossible not to have been noticed by contemporary historians. Not only that, and as others have mentioned, no other gospel writers mention it. I am surprised conservatives have not tossed this passage out with the woman caught in adultery passage as well as the long ending of Mark. Mike Licona stated he thought Matthew 27 was questionable and got the business from his fellow conservative believers. Toe the party line or else, Mike! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989 Posted August 9, 2018 Author Share Posted August 9, 2018 On 8/4/2018 at 7:55 PM, TinMan said: I am surprised conservatives have not tossed this passage out with the woman caught in adultery passage as well as the long ending of Mark. Mike Licona stated he thought Matthew 27 was questionable and got the business from his fellow conservative believers. Toe the party line or else, Mike! I remember reading a few years ago that there was a Conservative group who were going to rewrite the Bible the way they think it should have been written. It assumes that there's a Liberal slant to the Bible as written and it needs to be fixed. https://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project Link for anyone interested in what it takes to make an insane book even crazier. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 From the link to conservapedia posted above by @1989... "Isaac Newton, who was merely an average student, worked on translating the Bible and that gave him the inspiration and insight for inventing calculus," I know Mr. Newton contributed to infinitesimal calculus but I never knew that he INVENTED it - until I read that wonderful conservative version of Wiki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 hour ago, 1989 said: I remember reading a few years ago that there was a Conservative group who were going to rewrite the Bible the way they think it should have been written. It assumes that there's a Liberal slant to the Bible as written and it needs to be fixed. https://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project Link for anyone interested in what it takes to make an insane book even crazier. You really have to be insane to believe that any translation of the Bible is "liberal" in any way. Fundamentalism rots minds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted September 5, 2018 Super Moderator Share Posted September 5, 2018 On 8/2/2018 at 4:42 PM, 1989 said: Does anyone have an opinion on Matthew 27:51-3? Why is this part of the Gospels where the Saints rise from their graves and walk to Jerusalem not mentioned anywhere but there (beyond the obvious, of course). You'd think that if zombies walked around and were seen by many someone would have said or written about it. Hell, it's not even in the other Gospels. Has anyone heard (or experienced) this preached? Dude, watch The Walking Dead. Those guys are too busy trying to survive to waste time keeping a journal. Same in ancient Jerusalem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 One hypothesis is that -- if you think there was a historical Jesus -- Peter and company saw visions. From I Cor 15 it seems as though there was not clarity on whether a risen body was identical to the body of the dead, since everyone knew the dead bodies decay. II Maccabees talks about a belief that the dead soldiers would rise again. So I am guessing that by the time Matthew was written, questions had arisen that the writer was trying to answer. One of the questions would have been, what about the just who lived before Jesus? So the passage reinforces what had become the belief that the same body would rise again. Another question obviously was, did the disciples just steal Jesus' body and make up the resurrection story? So the part about the guard was put in, with details so lame that it is not believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989 Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 9 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Dude, watch The Walking Dead. Those guys are too busy trying to survive to waste time keeping a journal. Same in ancient Jerusalem. Are people kosher? Even as the walking corpses you'd think that saints and prophets would keep up with dietary laws. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted September 5, 2018 Super Moderator Share Posted September 5, 2018 Nah. god declared that all meat is clean. Granted it was a few years later, through St. Paul; but that wouldn't matter to the dead, who are no longer imprisoned in the chains of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsathoggua9 Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 15 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Nah. god declared that all meat is clean. Granted it was a few years later, through St. Paul; but that wouldn't matter to the dead, who are no longer imprisoned in the chains of time. Naw, I think it were Peter that had the "All meat izza clean, now!" vision. Jesus let him know about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989 Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 15 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Nah. god declared that all meat is clean. Granted it was a few years later, through St. Paul; but that wouldn't matter to the dead, who are no longer imprisoned in the chains of time. Do unto zombies as you would have zombies do unto you. Jerusalem was completely save. Golden Rule you know. 25 minutes ago, Tsathoggua9 said: Naw, I think it were Peter that had the "All meat izza clean, now!" vision. Jesus let him know about it. You are correct. Peter's all like, "Noes I never eats the all the fudz!" and Jesus is all like' "Bitch have a sammich!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 There's the possibility that the writer never thought anyone would be able to check. Promote the heck out of a story and pretend like it is real. Worked for millions of Mormons, or whatever they call themselves today. The veil being rent is one more example of a non-eyewitness testimony. The gospels will have the disciples talking, the suddenly cut to the Jews talking with Pilate, so the gospels are not eyewitness anything, just stories. If a believer wants to point to a miracle to make it believable, then they have gone full circle from "eyewitness testimony to support miracles actually happening, but then the eyewitness part itself could only be explained by a miracle (or more easily by being fiction)". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989 Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 On 9/6/2018 at 8:58 PM, Fuego said: There's the possibility that the writer never thought anyone would be able to check. Promote the heck out of a story and pretend like it is real. Worked for millions of Mormons, or whatever they call themselves today. The veil being rent is one more example of a non-eyewitness testimony. The gospels will have the disciples talking, the suddenly cut to the Jews talking with Pilate, so the gospels are not eyewitness anything, just stories. If a believer wants to point to a miracle to make it believable, then they have gone full circle from "eyewitness testimony to support miracles actually happening, but then the eyewitness part itself could only be explained by a miracle (or more easily by being fiction)". I've noticed that too. How do the Gospel writers know how many people discovered Jesus' empty tomb? Second-hand accounts make up for a good part of those books. If the Gospels were written some decades after Jesus' death, then even if one were to want to check who would be able to verify anyway? The more I read people's opinions of it the more ridiculous it becomes, and it was unbelievable to begin with. Outside of the Bible were any of Jesus' miracles verified? What about the miracles of the Apostles? Hell, what about the miracles of the entire Old Testament? I'm starting to detect a pattern here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VerbosityCat Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Most christians don't even know this is in the bible. The best deconversion tool is reading the bible. Unfortunately the book is so damn boring that it's hard to get anybody in the social media age to sit down and read it. But christians who do read it, cover to cover, very often become ex-christians. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VerbosityCat Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 On 8/3/2018 at 8:19 AM, Tsathoggua9 said: Yeah, it is a great little story about a mini-zombie apocalypse, nothing more. I'm waiting for the biblical christian movie based on this event. I'm hoping they can fit Negan in there somehow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 On 9/5/2018 at 4:40 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said: Nah. god declared that all meat is clean. Granted it was a few years later, through St. Paul; but that wouldn't matter to the dead, who are no longer imprisoned in the chains of time. Wow, and you claim to have read the scriptures? So did God tell you all meat was clean while you were eating road kill? Well bon appetit? On 9/5/2018 at 6:40 AM, ficino said: Another question obviously was, did the disciples just steal Jesus' body and make up the resurrection story? Why would that even be a question? Since even a blind man can read in the scriptures that Mary Magdalene, Salome and Mary arrived at the tomb of Jesus before the sun came up the morning following the crucifixion and the tomb was empty then how did the disciples steal his body? Of course for someone to say that the disciples stole Jesus body to make up the resurrection story then what is obvious is that if the gospel be hid it be hid to them that are lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 On 9/6/2018 at 7:58 PM, Fuego said: There's the possibility that the writer never thought anyone would be able to check. For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. Luke 8:17 5 minutes ago, Justus said: if the gospel be hid it be hid to them that are lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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