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Goodbye Jesus

How Do I respond to Christian Friend?


JenniferG

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11 hours ago, disillusioned said:

 

If it was me,  I probably wouldn't reply at all.

 

But if I did reply,  I'd be very tempted to point out that it's letters like hers that often lead to the dissolution of friendships, as they cause us to become disillusioned with each other. Am I petty? Maybe. But still.

Nice one!! No you're not petty 🙌🏼

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23 hours ago, 1989 said:

 

You can easily turn this around on her, if you wanted to.

 

I could tell her even if I tried to explain my position to her, her mind is like a shut clam, she'd simply refuse to understand or she doesn't have the ability to think rationally.

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5 hours ago, ag_NO_stic said:

 

I am so sorry you're having to deal with this bullshit. Many, if not all, of us have had very similar encounters. It's either "you were never a "TRUE" Christian OR you're "just having doubts." Either way, if I were you (not having any idea what your friendship dynamic is like) I would continue to have light-hearted or non-religious conversations, I would not correct her religious input in a conversation, but kindly gloss over it, I would "like stuff" on her facebook wall that isn't all Jesus-y, I would be as pleasant a person as possible. If she tries to box you in with her presuppositions about god, just tell her you respect her beliefs and wish the best for her. You don't have to "silence" her or shut things down on her side by not participating. Just love on her nonjudgmentally like she should to you.

 

I'm a big fan of just being as nice/kind/respectful as possible if you're going to stay friends. If she wants to talk religion, you can do so in a way that is both respectful AND firm. You can point out her presuppositions and acknowledge her right to believe as she wishes. There are a lot of people who believe a lot of things, so time and accepting that all of us are ignorant will go a long way.

 

Breathe, smile, and pity her captivity. Go holler "FUCK" somewhere, sleep in on Sundays, don't pray before you eat, and enjoy your Jesus-free life and let her do her. If she wants to reach out, welcome her. If it falls away naturally, it might be for the best. Just do you though, boo.

 

 

But....but muh freewill! :P

 

Seriously, how can she know this? So many assumptions.

I'm a big fan of being respectful as well. But I look forward to trying out my debunking skills on her. I'll respectfully set her straight about her false assumptions as well as the historicity about her Jesus boyfriend/lover of her soul. I've watched a LOT of Matt Dillahunty's responses on The Atheist Experience call in show and want to try out his responses on her! We don't live close by where it's easy for her to visit - ((although she has alluded to visiting now we're in the same Province) I rather suspect our friendship will fizzle.

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I find the older I get (I'm extremely old) the easier it is to cut 'em loose. No arguments, explanations or any of that useless crap. To quote a phrase from the olden days, "Bye Felicia" has become second nature. I don't have time for negative people or spinning my wheels. I never did, but the realization seems to come later rather than sooner. That is one lesson I would impart to my younger self.

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3 hours ago, florduh said:

I find the older I get (I'm extremely old) the easier it is to cut 'em loose. No arguments, explanations or any of that useless crap. To quote a phrase from the olden days, "Bye Felicia" has become second nature. I don't have time for negative people or spinning my wheels. I never did, but the realization seems to come later rather than sooner. That is one lesson I would impart to my younger self.

Same here. I'll cut this one loose, but not without giving her something to at least think about, rather than not responding at all. Although I doubt that she'd have the ability to think objectively and rationally. She's too deeply indoctrinated. She'll probably not have the ability to realize  just how judgemental she is. BTW how old is extremely old? I'm 62 😉

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9 hours ago, JenniferG said:

BTW how old is extremely old? I'm 62 😉

You're just a kid. Just had my 70th birthday a couple of weeks ago. Or was it a couple of years? 🤣

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To be honest, from what she's written, I doubt I'd have had the patience to be friends with her even as a Christian. Now that I'm a non-believer, friendship with Christians is one area where where I totally let my feelings hold sway and decide the issue all the way. Afterall, your friends are supposed to be there to support you, regardless of your beliefs, not to judge you and tell you where you went wrong. The friends that have treated me this way after learning of my leaving the church have got no follow-up from me to their messages of concern, and I'll only stay in touch if and when they reach out in a non-judgemental manner. It's easier to let these types of friendships die a natural death, move on and find meaningful ones to replace them.

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7 hours ago, florduh said:

You're just a kid. Just had my 70th birthday a couple of weeks ago. Or was it a couple of years? 🤣

Comes around quickly, eh?  I'm 7.5 years away from 3 score and 10. I'm married to an oldie who's 71!

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Ugh another self-righteous, control-freaking Christian. I wouldn’t bother answering her letter.

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Since you have said you could easily let this one go, that's what I'd do. She won't hear anything you say, and there are lots of other things in life to spend time and energy on.

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12 hours ago, florduh said:

You're just a kid. Just had my 70th birthday a couple of weeks ago. Or was it a couple of years? 🤣

 

You know what they say.... life is like a roll of toilet paper. 

It goes faster toward the end.

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3 hours ago, older said:

 

You know what they say.... life is like a roll of toilet paper. 

It goes faster toward the end.

Haven't heard that one! Lol

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10 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

To be honest, from what she's written, I doubt I'd have had the patience to be friends with her even as a Christian. Now that I'm a non-believer, friendship with Christians is one area where where I totally let my feelings hold sway and decide the issue all the way. Afterall, your friends are supposed to be there to support you, regardless of your beliefs, not to judge you and tell you where you went wrong. The friends that have treated me this way after learning of my leaving the church have got no follow-up from me to their messages of concern, and I'll only stay in touch if and when they reach out in a non-judgemental manner. It's easier to let these types of friendships die a natural death, move on and find meaningful ones to replace them.

 

"It's easier to let these types of friendships die a natural death, move on and find meaningful ones to replace them."

Totally agree. 

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On 8/2/2018 at 5:15 PM, DestinyTurtle said:

I feel you. When I came out to my parents I wasn't christian they did the whole "we knew it was never real". On top of that they're Calvinists so basically this translates to "God created you to go to hell, he was always going to send you to hell, and there is nothing you can do to stop him from send you to hell. Halleluyah!" At least it keeps them from attempting to reconvert me...

 

Wish I knew what to say about your friend. It's hard to have a sincere friendship with someone who insists they are better than you... ?

 

There's actually a plus side to Calvinism?!  Wow, who would of thought!  I'll have to remember that when I bump into old Calvinist friends.  

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On 8/2/2018 at 3:55 PM, JenniferG said:

.We can even fool ourselves that we are Christians,

 

That there is the most stupid thing she says, and she doesn't even realize it!  I would cut her off as well, but if she persists in trying to contact you, I would hammer that nail as deep as you can.  

 

You:  I read my Bible, prayed, meditated on His Word, did every Bible study I could find, went to church every day and twice on Sunday.  

Her:  Yes, but clearly you fooled yourself into thinking you were a Christian.

You:  But I was sure of it!  I was as sure of it as you are now!  How can you be so sure?

Her:  I just know in my heart.

You:  But if I could be that sure, and yet be fooling myself, couldn't you also be fooling yourself?  How do you know?

Her:   . . . *crickets* (hopefully)

 

Even if she persists, you will be planting a seed of doubt if you really hammer the insanity of her statement back into her every time she talks to you.  And if nothing else,  it will likely annoy her enough not to ever bother you again.

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Daffodil above posts an interesting thought. Something I've wanted to try is the false prophet approach. If the Devil also quotes the scriptures, then how anyone know that they are getting the right information? Perhaps Hinduism is the right one and Christianity is a false religion conceived by the Devil. How can she prove that that's not the case?

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1 hour ago, Daffodil said:

 

That there is the most stupid thing she says, and she doesn't even realize it!  I would cut her off as well, but if she persists in trying to contact you, I would hammer that nail as deep as you can.  

 

You:  I read my Bible, prayed, meditated on His Word, did every Bible study I could find, went to church every day and twice on Sunday.  

Her:  Yes, but clearly you fooled yourself into thinking you were a Christian.

You:  But I was sure of it!  I was as sure of it as you are now!  How can you be so sure?

Her:  I just know in my heart.

You:  But if I could be that sure, and yet be fooling myself, couldn't you also be fooling yourself?  How do you know?

Her:   . . . *crickets* (hopefully)

 

Even if she persists, you will be planting a seed of doubt if you really hammer the insanity of her statement back into her every time she talks to you.  And if nothing else,  it will likely annoy her enough not to ever bother you again.

Thanks for that, Daffodil. I dare say she will say she has special knowledge and favour from her God because of how he saved her when she cried out to him for help when her life was shitty and he changed her instantly - without any christian  witnessing to her. So she KNOWS for sure that her god, particularly Jesus is very real to her.  I do intend to "hammer her insanity back to her." 😀

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On August 3, 2018 at 11:38 AM, ag_NO_stic said:

It really depends on if you're confrontational or not. My above answer was a passive, non-confrontational approach. If you would prefer to confront, perhaps breaking down her defensiveness by just asking her questions we know she can't answer could help too. For example: "I WANT to believe, but I am just too confused. Were there two angels at the empty tomb or not?! Were Mary and Joseph just passing by or was it a mandatory consensus! If Jesus is supposed to be in David's lineage, but GOD was Jesus' daddy....then how is David in the bloodline! The geneologies are whack, what gives? Do I need baptism or not?" 

 

She honestly sounds like a really NON-FUN person to be around. Even when I was a Christian I would have avoided her like the plague lol.

 

Oh boy, IS SHE EVER NON-FUN to be around!!

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On 8/4/2018 at 6:08 PM, LostinParis said:

Ugh another self-righteous, control-freaking Christian. I wouldn’t bother answering her letter.

 

Is she EVER a control freak! Her poor husband is like a whipped puppy dog - I feel sorry for him

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Another tactic I’ve tried a couple of times here on Ex-C in the Lion’s Den is to try to get the Christian to look at photos of horrific birth defects and then ask them why they worship a god who would cause this to happen, and how any allegedly loving god could inflict these defects upon a child. After all, if everything happens according to God’s plan, then he caused these defects to happen. Here on Ex-C, the Xians making the posts totally ignored my challenge. But you could Google “children of Chernobyl” and the photos by Paul Fusco (type: Chernobyl Fusco; and: Chernobyl chidren), and other images from that disaster. You can also call up images of anencephaly, holoprosencephaly, cyclopia and hydrocephaly. (Warning — these are very tough to look at.) You would want to make a collection of the strongest of these in advance. Demand that your friend look at the images. Do not let her look away when you ask the question.

 

I’d probably sandbag her by starting with a general question: “Do you believe that everything that happens is planned by or caused by God?” She’ll answer yes. Then show the photos and ask the follow-up questions. And if she refuses to look, you could say that this shows she doesn’t care what her god does.
 

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  • 1 month later...

You might be better off without this drone in your life. The reality is, as you become more comfortable in your atheism this individual is going to prove to be very stagnant. She's not willing to grow or question anything beyond certain boundaries. She's already essentially said she's a slave. (her life belongs to Christ.sounds like slavery to me). She's not a free agent and it's nearly impossible to have an authentic friendship with such a person who will look down on you, think you are "lost" and they are right and you are wrong. And the fact that she refuses to interact with you without having conversations about "HIM", that's just pathological. It's a sign of severe disrespect of the path you have chosen.

 

I assume that having come out, you could hang out with this person without constantly bringing up your atheism or trying to deconvert her.The fact that she can't show the same basic respect is a warning flag. She's setting up a power dynamic in this relationship where SHE will be allowed to say whatever she wants no matter how you feel about it, but you can bet that it won't swing the other way unless she finds debate useful as a conversion strategy to get you back (a tactic Christians quickly give up on when they see how ill-prepared they are to reason you back into Christianity.)

 

Her being "excited about where your friendship is going next". I'd say it should go to the landfill, but that's me. I didn't formally end every Christian friendship but those who wouldn't respect my boundaries I distanced myself from them to the point of never seeing them. If someone is going to put their imaginary friend and spiritual theories ahead of their real life friends... they aren't worth it. IMO.

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Also, I'd be tempted to dump her just for " dissolutioned " 

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On 8/3/2018 at 7:18 PM, JenniferG said:

She's always been a self-righteous, controlling, shitty friend, really. Treats her husband like a dog.

 

I thought she was supposed to obey him. Which version of Christianity is she following, because from her letter it seemed like the super fundy version where she'd need to obey her husband to obey Jesus.

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Unfortunately the whole "you were never really a Christian" thing is fairly common. I think it comes from 1 John 2:19 - "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us."

 

No one has said this to me yet thankfully, but if they did I would have a few choice words for them! Pisses me off tbh 

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