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Goodbye Jesus

Should We Expect a Higher Consciousness


Guest end3

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9 hours ago, end3 said:

A couple things....on one hand I can see an explanation for "souls" or personalities in the sheer number of variables affecting the body,  internally and externally.  We are not the same at any point and will never be.....hence the differences. 

 

On another hand, I'm kinda like Margee.  I have a difficult time dismissing what I see and have experienced...particularly the lady on the Long Island Medium. 

 

Lastly, there are several religions, if I'm not in error, that claim a consciousness or potential consciousness with something larger. 

 

I'm with Donnie Baker....hard to dismiss ESPN...

 

 

 

 

You are always inching ever so closer to giving in to the dark side and becoming one of us.

 

Soon the word "reprobate" will mean nothing to you any longer, when you realize that you have already been one for quite some time and you begin to ask question "according to whom?".  

 

You have been delving into philosophy and the outer limits of justification for years now, but you know that you are mentally grasping at straws. You are looking for proof of woo in a TV show.  Remember all of the times that you have had butterflies in your stomach or goose pimples on your forearms or spooky times when you were all alone and it was dark outside when you were a kid and it had nothing to do with any God?

 

End, you may or may not ever give up on your hope that there is something "more", but you haven't believed for a long time that Biblegod is the "more" that you are looking for.  If you thought that Biblegod was the answer, you'd still be quoting the Bible and what its God says, instead of talking about this Long Island Madam Medium stuff. 

You know damn well, or you should, what Biblegod says about conversing with the dead. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, end3 said:

On another hand, I'm kinda like Margee.  I have a difficult time dismissing what I see and have experienced...particularly the lady on the Long Island Medium. 

 

 

If I start paying too much attention to some unorthodox hallucination, my other more conservative hallucinations get pissed.

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On 8/14/2018 at 5:38 PM, Margee said:

Good grief! What am I doing in the lion's Den?? It's my first pleasurable visit here. I like this topic. And nobody's really fighting?? What's up with that? LOl 

 

I just like the comments and find them all really interesting. I had a couple of OBE's and I tell you, it's a real spooky feeling to think that your own 'consciousness' can get out of your body and walk alongside you!! I had this happen. And no I wasn't drinking or toking. My body was walking and my 'soul' was walking with me. Too hard to explain. I'm a little crazy anyway. I admit it.  

 

Stay crazy, Margee. :) It's liberating. OBEs and lucid dreaming are pretty wild experiences. I think once you have had these experiences, you begin to question how real reality actually is. :)

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8 hours ago, duderonomy said:

 

You are always inching ever so closer to giving in to the dark side and becoming one of us.

 

Soon the word "reprobate" will mean nothing to you any longer, when you realize that you have already been one for quite some time and you begin to ask question "according to whom?".  

 

You have been delving into philosophy and the outer limits of justification for years now, but you know that you are mentally grasping at straws. You are looking for proof of woo in a TV show.  Remember all of the times that you have had butterflies in your stomach or goose pimples on your forearms or spooky times when you were all alone and it was dark outside when you were a kid and it had nothing to do with any God?

 

End, you may or may not ever give up on your hope that there is something "more", but you haven't believed for a long time that Biblegod is the "more" that you are looking for.  If you thought that Biblegod was the answer, you'd still be quoting the Bible and what its God says, instead of talking about this Long Island Madam Medium stuff. 

You know damn well, or you should, what Biblegod says about conversing with the dead. 

 

 

Lol, such kind words.  I quit going to church after my divorce.  Really disappointed with one of the elders I looked up to...and his "wisdom".  Moved to another town and went to a rather large church a bit only to find all those really holy people being really holy.

 

And I left there as well after asking a few of those kind of questions they did not want asked.  Lol, a few people literally shaking their heads no and unwilling to discuss further.  So yeah, part of Christianity is under the bridge for me, but I'm a long way from a change.

 

Have been listening to a few sermons lately.  That's not good for y'all...lol. 

 

I realize I was being considered for part of the baby cooking bar b que team, but will have to decline for now.  Thx.  Get me a t-shirt though.

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  • 2 weeks later...

No, why would we?

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4 hours ago, Aries256 said:

No, why would we?

Cogito ergo sum.  This is the basis of our experience in life: I think, therefore I am.  The only thing we can be sure exists is our consciousness.  But even that is debatable given that we perceive our awareness through flawed senses.  With that said, I would suggest that we shouldn't even expect our own consciousness, let alone a higher one.

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3 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Cogito ergo sum.  This is the basis of our experience in life: I think, therefore I am.  The only thing we can be sure exists is our consciousness.  But even that is debatable given that we perceive our awareness through flawed senses.  With that said, I would suggest that we shouldn't even expect our own consciousness, let alone a higher one.

Flawed relative to some greater understanding of our objective experience.  If there is a greater "less-flawed" objectivity, then why is there not a greater less flawed consciousness.

 

And coincidentally, the Bible talks about humanity "lower than" the Angels. 

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49 minutes ago, end3 said:

Flawed relative to some greater understanding of our objective experience.  If there is a greater "less-flawed" objectivity, then why is there not a greater less flawed consciousness.

 

And coincidentally, the Bible talks about humanity "lower than" the Angels. 

Flawed senses.  Flawed as in imperfect.  Senses as in taste feel smell sound and sight.

 

How much these flaws affect our consciousness versus how much our consciousness is already flawed itself is largely irrelevant.  Our consciousness exists; we know this because we are aware of it.  This requires neither gods, nor angels; and, in fact, brings their perceived existence into question, as, the only way we can be "aware" of them (for lack of better terminology) is through our senses, which are flawed, and our consciousness, which is also flawed.

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1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Flawed senses.  Flawed as in imperfect.  Senses as in taste feel smell sound and sight.

 

How much these flaws affect our consciousness versus how much our consciousness is already flawed itself is largely irrelevant.  Our consciousness exists; we know this because we are aware of it.  This requires neither gods, nor angels; and, in fact, brings their perceived existence into question, as, the only way we can be "aware" of them (for lack of better terminology) is through our senses, which are flawed, and our consciousness, which is also flawed.

What I gathered you saying by "flawed" was, through science, we understand the senses "flawed" or less capable.  I'm just stating that if we are aware of more capable/larger, then why is there not possibly a larger, more capable associated consciousness. 

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53 minutes ago, end3 said:

What I gathered you saying by "flawed" was, through science, we understand the senses "flawed" or less capable.  I'm just stating that if we are aware of more capable/larger, then why is there not possibly a larger, more capable associated consciousness. 

I would submit that a higher, greater, or more capable collective consciousness cannot be established by combining significantly flawed individual consciousnesses.  It would likely only end in a more flawed collective than the sum of the individuals.  Like a negative gestalt.

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28 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I would submit that a higher, greater, or more capable collective consciousness cannot be established by combining significantly flawed individual consciousnesses.  It would likely only end in a more flawed collective than the sum of the individuals.  Like a negative gestalt.

Yes, but there is the pruning analogy in the Bible...  In other words, that collective you are describing is only a limb or unfolding of something greater.....growing in tune or errantly with respect to the environment.

 

Really kind of interesting when you think about it....regardless of belief.  For example, was Eden a better environment for remaining "nourished"/tied to the creator, .....and now, outside of a better environment, "God" has potentially left means open for nourishment/connectivity.....and also made us somewhat responsible for our environment.

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Okay, the pruning analogy... let's look at the church.  How many good decisions do you think would be made if things were left up to the collective consciousness of church members.  Before you answer, I'd encourage you to consider who is the current President of the United States.

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1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Okay, the pruning analogy... let's look at the church.  How many good decisions do you think would be made if things were left up to the collective consciousness of church members.  Before you answer, if encourage you to consider who is the current President of the United States.

Lol, it's about faith at this point....  a good point nonetheless.  More later.

 

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I don't want to read through it all again, but has anybody yet defined the meaning of "higher consciousness?" What qualifies as higher and who defines it?

 

It just seems to me that we have what we have with no basis for imaginative comparisons. "Should we expect a higher consciousness" seems no different than "Should we expect longer legs?" Higher or longer, how would such a condition be better? We can only imagine.

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9 minutes ago, florduh said:

I don't want to read through it all again, but has anybody yet defined the meaning of "higher consciousness?" What qualifies as higher and who defines it?

 

It just seems to me that we have what we have with no basis for imaginative comparisons. "Should we expect a higher consciousness" seems no different than "Should we expect longer legs?" Higher or longer, how would such a condition be better? We can only imagine.

Don't piss on the parade....  Many questions are asked and lead to inquiry.  It's not a crime to ask.  It seems reasonable that beating down Christianity doesn't ultimately solve the dilemmas, the realities we face daily.  

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5 minutes ago, end3 said:

Don't piss on the parade....  Many questions are asked and lead to inquiry.  It's not a crime to ask.  It seems reasonable that beating down Christianity doesn't ultimately solve the dilemmas, the realities we face daily.  

So, the answer is "no."

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On 8/28/2018 at 3:16 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Okay, the pruning analogy... let's look at the church.  How many good decisions do you think would be made if things were left up to the collective consciousness of church members.  Before you answer, I'd encourage you to consider who is the current President of the United States.

 

Well, in the United States it's not "the church" that elects a President, and let's not forget that our last President was Obama, quite the polar opposite of the current one. 

Still, according to your insinuation, did "the church" suddenly take over voting in 2016 or did "the church" suddenly lose it's influence over voting in 2016?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, duderonomy said:

 

Well, in the United States it's not "the church" that elects a President, and let's not forget that our last President was Obama, quite the polar opposite of the current one. 

Still, according to your insinuation, did "the church" suddenly take over voting in 2016 or did "the church" suddenly lose it's influence over voting in 2016?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never said, nor implied, that the "church" elected the president.  But the hardcore truth and reality is that a large portion of Trump supporters were and are still evangelical christians.  This speaks to my earlier point that a collective of flawed consciousnesses would be likely to make even more flawed decisions than an individual flawed consciousness.  One or two, or even twenty, people voting for Trump in '16 might have been viewed with amused pity; but a large portion of the nation voting for him is proving to be disastrous. 

 

This is the inherent flaw in End3's thought process here.   Not only should we not expect a higher consciousness; but we should actively seek to prevent it.   A cursory glance at life in North Korea should be more than enough warning against the establishment of a collective consciousness. 

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5 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I never said, nor implied, that the "church" elected the president.  But the hardcore truth and reality is that a large portion of Trump supporters were and are still evangelical christians.  This speaks to my earlier point that a collective of flawed consciousnesses would be likely to make even more flawed decisions than an individual flawed consciousness.  One or two, or even twenty, people voting for Trump in '16 might have been viewed with amused pity; but a large portion of the nation voting for him is proving to be disastrous. 

 

This is the inherent flaw in End3's thought process here.   Not only should we not expect a higher consciousness; but we should actively seek to prevent it.   A cursory glance at life in North Korea should be more than enough warning against the establishment of a collective consciousness. 

Your missing most of my point in favor of your specific view.  You're working off a premise that the collective is flawed.....which even the Bible suggests.  I'm saying that there exists a greater consciousness, one which is not flawed, and that the collective must remain connected in order that it produce fruit. 

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Let's go one step further for fun's sake.  Let's suggest that love is the primary attribute of the greater consciousness.  Really not a great stretch from this assumption to Christianity.  What is eternal life?....knowing/remaining connected to a standard of love outside of our individual needs, views, and selfishness, i.e. what we THINK we know and need regarding this higher consciousness...we seemingly know is always there, that we sense we know when we are violating that connection. 

 

It's really rather simple...

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53 minutes ago, end3 said:

Your missing most of my point in favor of your specific view.  You're working off a premise that the collective is flawed.....which even the Bible suggests.  I'm saying that there exists a greater consciousness, one which is not flawed, and that the collective must remain connected in order that it produce fruit. 

And I suppose you would also posit that this "greater consciousness that is not flawed" is god, who is the same today, yesterday, and forever; but who also changed his mind about rape, slavery, and eating unclean meat.

 

Prove; don't assert. 

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32 minutes ago, end3 said:

Let's go one step further for fun's sake.  Let's suggest that love is the primary attribute of the greater consciousness.  Really not a great stretch from this assumption to Christianity.  What is eternal life?....knowing/remaining connected to a standard of love outside of our individual needs, views, and selfishness, i.e. what we THINK we know and need regarding this higher consciousness...we seemingly know is always there, that we sense we know when we are violating that connection. 

 

It's really rather simple...

Too many break-up songs on the radio for any of us to pretend love isn't flawed.

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34 minutes ago, end3 said:

Let's go one step further for fun's sake.  Let's suggest that love is the primary attribute of the greater consciousness.  Really not a great stretch from this assumption to Christianity.  What is eternal life?....knowing/remaining connected to a standard of love outside of our individual needs, views, and selfishness, i.e. what we THINK we know and need regarding this higher consciousness...we seemingly know is always there, that we sense we know when we are violating that connection. 

 

It's really rather simple...

 

You could make money peddling woo woo.  Have you considered changing careers?

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3 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

 

You could make money peddling woo woo.  Have you considered changing careers?

My forte was children's sermons....  I really enjoyed it.  Just very difficult to come up with an object lesson each week.  If you don't have a prop they are a tough audience....lol.

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