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Goodbye Jesus

Should We Expect a Higher Consciousness


Guest end3

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10 minutes ago, VerbosityCat said:

 

Then our conversation has ended. Any further posts directed at me that insist upon calling me "Ma'am", will be ignored. (and once again "your culture" is being imposed upon me. Whether it's Christianity or your asinine insistence on referring to me as Ma'am. And let's not kid ourselves. You don't respect me. if you just "respect women in general", that's not respect, it's patronization. I want to earn respect. If someone respects me it should be for reasons other than my genitalia.)

You're choice, your life.  You were the one advocating "me'' and "cultures" and indigene were beautiful.  Texas is not beautiful obviously...

 

"Common respect for differences I can get behind, but I WANT those differences. I want different ethnicities and cultures and mythologies and ways of being in the world, including those who aren't religious or spiritual at all. "

 

In case you have forgotten what you wrote an hour ago... ma'am.

 

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1 hour ago, end3 said:

You're choice, your life.  You were the one advocating "me'' and "cultures" and indigene were beautiful.  Texas is not beautiful obviously...

 

"Common respect for differences I can get behind, but I WANT those differences. I want different ethnicities and cultures and mythologies and ways of being in the world, including those who aren't religious or spiritual at all. "

 

In case you have forgotten what you wrote an hour ago... ma'am.

 

 

Goddamn motherfucker I'm going to make a liar of myself and respond to this shit because I don't have the self control necessary to just ignore a turd when I step over one, but seriously fuck you here we go...

 

I ALSO said in the very next paragraph: " I'm okay with anybody who wants to play in this sandbox on equitable terms. So if the Abrahamic monotheisms want to get off their "one true god" kick and realize biblegod is just the Jewish tribal god from the desert, then that's fine. But monotheism is the worst thing that happened to humanity IMO. It has caused all manner of destruction of cultures, identities, freedoms.It is not some inherent "good."

 

So stop twisting shit.

 

We can't HAVE different cultures and mythologies if yours tries to destroy them all! (and in many cases has mostly succeeded.) Christians want a fucking monochristculture.  How on earth can we have differences with Christianity... or Islam trying to make us all the same? Both are infections that refuse to allow difference. The only reason Christianity "allows" difference now is that they HAVE to because your religion no longer has the power to force us all to follow your bullshit. Given your absolute resistance to respecting any boundary I set, I feel fairly certain if this were about a thousand years ago you'd be happily burning villages down for Jesus.

 

The only way to PRESERVE cultural differences is to reject the ever encroaching spread of culture destroyers like Christianity and Islam. Any culture content to exist alongside others without trying to usurp or destroy the cultures of others fine. But we can't tolerate intolerance. Because intolerant one true wayisms, once in power, never tolerate anybody else. This is how we got this shit we've currently got to begin with. The pagans were too fucking tolerant. If the Roman empire had shut that shit down properly to begin with we wouldn't be having this discussion. You'd be praying to the old gods if you prayed to anybody at all.

 

This is the same soft weakness the west is currently going through of "but we have to respect everybody's religious culture", and letting Islam RIGHT in our fucking front door. There is respect and then there is basic idiocy. We're going to respect ourselves right into praying to mecca 5 times a day.

 

The only bright spot in all this is that when this day comes, you will FINALLY fucking understand why nobody likes Christianity as you are suddenly the victim of ACTUAL oppression and persecution.

 

 

 

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Also, aren't you supposed to be at work? I thought the reason you couldn't respond to my big text wall was because you were at work. Somehow though, you find a way to break away from your important business to call me Ma'am. I see we're going to just 'ignore everything we can't address' in favor of picking out a few things and twisting them around to try to make our opponent look like a hypocrite.

 

If I could be more like Florduh and keep my posts to like 3 sentences I wouldn't use enough words for you to find a way to misread them.

 

And congrats, points for you, you found my weakness. I absolutely can't resist responding to someone who takes my words out of their context to make me look like a liar. Ma'am or no ma'am. Feel smug if you like, but it's clear to me that "ma'am" is all you've got in your arsenal. You are basically bringing a spoon to a knife fight.

 

At the same time though, I'm really not sure what you hope to accomplish when all your argument and mine establish is that you don't respect me and I don't respect Christianity. And also I don't respect you at this point.

 

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On 9/8/2018 at 8:32 PM, NeverHealed52Years said:

Dang. I have trouble reading the screen and have a really slow small Dorm PC so It takes me forever to try to call up and read all his past posts in hopes of getting more about his two experiences.

 

I had a much smaller, quick, less awesome experience a couple years ago when I read  in the Bible about not listening to Doctrines of men and slammed the bible shut and said OK I wont. I wanted to compare what I experienced to his. Oh well.

 

Thanks so much for being kind enuf to  write me back (Quickly too!) and let me know.

I thought your statement was pretty clear welcoming different cultures, etc.  What I am reading is you would like equitable but then you want to put the equitable line wherever it suits you.  To answer your question of how Christianity defines “me”, Christ spent an inordinate amount of time praying/communing w God to understand himself on earth.  I gather it a decent way to define an authentic me.  And yes writing smaller amounts would be helpful but it’s becoming more clear your handle/moniker.

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18 minutes ago, end3 said:

I thought your statement was pretty clear welcoming different cultures, etc.  What I am reading is you would like equitable but then you want to put the equitable line wherever it suits you.  To answer your question of how Christianity defines “me”, Christ spent an inordinate amount of time praying/communing w God to understand himself on earth.  I gather it a decent way to define an authentic me.  And yes writing smaller amounts would be helpful but it’s becoming more clear your handle/moniker.

 

You replied to the wrong person. I think you are replying to me based on the context of what you're saying. Yes, I DO welcome different cultures, but if you had read that entire post (and yes, it's a lot of words. In trying to be more clear I often make my point get lost in too many words and I really don't know HOW to discuss complex topics with three sentences), my point is that I can't be tolerant of intolerance. Also, I don't see Christianity as a "culture". I see it as a religious ideology. The reason I don't see it as a culture in and of itself is because it tries to take on the culture it's absorbing and taking over. Any culture it has is middle eastern and I assume you don't identify your culture as middle eastern (unless of course you are ethnically middle eastern, in which case okie dokie, then, enjoy Jesus!)

 

The problem is that Christianity has a bloody and oppressive history and it's only been in the last few DECADES that somebody in the west could be openly non-christian without being discriminated against. Like it or not, you identify with and are part of a religion that has spent the MAJORITY of it's time trying to force everybody else to submit to it. And you think a few decades of people FINALLY able to fight back, and now openly and aggressively not liking your religion is some kind of persecution? It isn't.

 

We finally can say this stuff without losing everything.


And it's only been a few hundred years since we could be not-christian without being murdered for it and that might be a generous timeline.

 

The equitable line is not "where it suits me" it's what the word means. In order for Christianity (and Islam) to get to play in the "we respect all cultures" pool, they must:

 

1. Not claim to be the one true truth or say that those who don't believe or follow their religion are going to "hell".

2. They must not push others to join their faith.

 

Basically they have to stop claiming they are THE truth without any evidence. I understand this is  pretty much Christianity and Islam. And that's why, unless these two religions acknowledge they are tribal desert cults and NOT universally true for everybody, no, I can't respect them. And I made that clear in my original post about this that you then tried to twist around.

 

NOBODY ELSE except for the abrahamic monotheisms are claiming to have the one true god.  I think Buddhism and Hinduism sometimes come a little dangerously close to saying they have a universal truth that applies to everyone, but that's probably a reaction to Christianity and Islam more than anything. Even so,neither has tried to take over the entire planet.

 

 

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I also might add that once again, you are at exchristian.net a site designed FOR people who have left Christianity or are in the process of leaving Christianity. This site is INTENDED to allow people to vent our issues with Christianity. We do not HAVE to respect Christianity here. In fact, this is one of the few spaces online in which absolute unbridled Christian hatred is 100% politically correct.

 

I realize you've been on this site MUCH longer than me, but I can't pretend to know why you feel compelled to hang out with Ex-Christians in a space where they are trying to be free from Christianity. I do not deny your right to be here, particularly in THIS section of the forum. It's designed for Christians to engage. Even so, that doesn't explain your motivation for being here. And why you feel it appropriate to get in any way butthurt when someone who was harmed by your religion has no respect for it on a site intended to support the ex-christian and not the Christian.

 

And obviously if I don't want to deal with Christians at all on here, I can stay in other parts of the forum.I'm not trying to imply you are in any way responsible for my choice to be in here. And also I think plenty of people LIKE arguing with Christians, so again I'm not saying Christians shouldn't be on this part of the forum. I'm just saying I don't get why you WANT to be here. And especially how after 11 years it's still so impossible for you to grasp why someone might not respect your religion even if they say they respect different cultures. Like are you REALLY confused about this. REALLY?

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Donating platelets...suck at one handed texting...but not certain Christianity is as much culture as you are making it out.  For  the record you equally seem to be ignoring my points.  Ie praying to discern individuality.

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13 minutes ago, VerbosityCat said:

I also might add that once again, you are at exchristian.net a site designed FOR people who have left Christianity or are in the process of leaving Christianity. This site is INTENDED to allow people to vent our issues with Christianity. We do not HAVE to respect Christianity here. In fact, this is one of the few spaces online in which absolute unbridled Christian hatred is 100% politically correct.

 

I realize you've been on this site MUCH longer than me, but I can't pretend to know why you feel compelled to hang out with Ex-Christians in a space where they are trying to be free from Christianity. I do not deny your right to be here, particularly in THIS section of the forum. It's designed for Christians to engage. Even so, that doesn't explain your motivation for being here. And why you feel it appropriate to get in any way butthurt when someone who was harmed by your religion has no respect for it on a site intended to support the ex-christian and not the Christian.

You could suggest they remove the lions den.  Also, getting to understand the other side is therapy in some level....yelling at them.

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I already acknowledged your life, your choice on engagement.  Control the situation to your comfort level.  I can get butthurt in the appropriate places here..... a tiny space where the Christians are not pillaging.

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15 minutes ago, end3 said:

Donating platelets...suck at one handed texting...but not certain Christianity is as much culture as you are making it out.  For  the record you equally seem to be ignoring my points.  Ie praying to discern individuality.

 

Can you lay out your point more clearly? If I'm ignoring something it's not intentional.

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12 minutes ago, end3 said:

You could suggest they remove the lions den.  Also, getting to understand the other side is therapy in some level....yelling at them.

 

Yeah I don't want them to remove the lion's den and even if I did, I've been here two minutes, if I don't like it I can make my own damn site.  My understanding is that the lion's den exists because the site owners believe in free speech and that certain areas like this one Christians have more free reign.

 

Though we DO understand the other side. We WERE the other side. We aren't "never christians' we're EX Christians. Many of us were Christian for a considerable period of time. I was raised in Christianity and spent the first nearly 20 years of my life in it, after that there were several years of bumpy deconversion.   And yeah, yelling at Christians can be cathartic. That wasn't my point.

 

My point is I'm trying to understand why you WANT to be here if you feel so disrespected. Because I find it hard to believe I'm the first and only person who has "disrespected you" or your faith on this forum. You can be a smug little shit, so I'm pretty sure it's happened a bunch of times.

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1 minute ago, VerbosityCat said:

 

Can you lay out your point more clearly? If I'm ignoring something it's not intentional.

Yeah Jesus prayed a lot to know who and why he was.  I think Christianity has been errant in not making this an important part of the message..  it’s always sacrifice blah blah DIE to self.

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9 minutes ago, end3 said:

I already acknowledged your life, your choice on engagement.  Control the situation to your comfort level.  I can get butthurt in the appropriate places here..... a tiny space where the Christians are not pillaging.

 

Yeah you are allowed to get butthurt for sure. I'm not trying to micromanage your emotions I just again don't get why you want to be here. What is your motivation for being at Ex-C? I mean maybe you want to have dialogue with people who believe differently than you. Actually I appreciate such dialogue as well. But like on Christian Forums they have nonbelievers there all the time, so it's not as though you MUST specifically come to a place meant to help people trying to get away from Christianity. I'm trying to understand what your thought process is here. I'm not saying you should go away. I might be run off if I did because I'm sure there are plenty here who enjoy poking you and I would be ruining their fun. I'm just trying to understand the psychology behind not picking a site meant specifically for debate but a site meant to support people trying to get away from your religion. It seems a little religiously "stalky".

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8 minutes ago, end3 said:

Yeah Jesus prayed a lot to know who and why he was.  I think Christianity has been errant in not making this an important part of the message..  it’s always sacrifice blah blah DIE to self.

 

I can appreciate this point but it seems like "nice Christians" are always trying to find the nice parts of the bible or the ideas they can get behind while ignoring VAST swaths of text. Do you interpret the bible as literally true or metaphorical? Do you believe in hell?

 

Also, it's not like Jesus is the only being to have ever prayed. Or the only spiritual leader or example anybody can look to. Besides all the carnage (because let's be real, I pray to the gods of the vikings so it's not like I'm THAT against carnage. I just want it to be pro-me carnage haha), my biggest issue with Christianity was always that it felt very FOREIGN to me. Like there really isn't anything about any of the stories or Jesus or any of it really that I like. There are too many anti-woman themes in the religion itself. Too much subjugating women. Too much slavery to your god and "obedience". Like everything is about obedience. I just can't respect a god who creates people to "obey" him. I mean it's so lame. This whole "you have free will but if you don't love me back you're going to hell." etc. I mean there is just no part of this religion that works for me on any level, so it's hard for me to believe it works for anybody else outside of threats (maybe it does, but it's hard for me to be able to even comprehend that.) It just seems like stockholm syndrome to me. It seems like people have been so enslaved by this religion for so long that now they think it's super good and nice and the bad parts were just bad people who took things out of context when really it's the fluffy liberal christians who are taking things out of context.

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8 minutes ago, end3 said:

To the crux, my father was an arrogant scientist.  He died last year so my living voodoo doll is gone.  I come here poking those w like qualities.

 

Ah. Okay, that makes sense.

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10 minutes ago, end3 said:

 

I have thoughts on it all.... but way too lengthy for one handed texting...will have to defer atm.  Thx.

 

No problem. I have wasted a whole day yelling at you. I have meatspace shit I need to do. Will check back later.

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33 minutes ago, end3 said:

To the crux, my father was an arrogant scientist.  He died last year so my living voodoo doll is gone.  I come here poking those w like qualities.

 

Also, I'm sorry for your loss.

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5 hours ago, VerbosityCat said:

 

Also, I'm sorry for your loss.

Thank you.  Coincidentally my eldest sister spread his ashes on the continental divide today....but thank you.  You're a decent person to visit with Cat.  Hoping we can find some understanding.  I'll try to catch up here soon. 

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11 minutes ago, end3 said:

Thank you.  Coincidentally my eldest sister spread his ashes on the continental divide today....but thank you.  You're a decent person to visit with Cat.  Hoping we can find some understanding.  I'll try to catch up here soon. 

 

Sure, now that you aren't calling me ma'am and I'm not yelling at you, I'd be happy to have a discussion and look forward to your responses. I have an internet blocker to keep me from wasting too much time online and I'm about to set it for the night so I won't be online again until around this time or a little earlier tomorrow so if you reply I'm not ignoring, just have to do real world stuff and am re-activating the cold turkey blocker.

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On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 1:52 PM, VerbosityCat said:

 

I can appreciate this point but it seems like "nice Christians" are always trying to find the nice parts of the bible or the ideas they can get behind while ignoring VAST swaths of text. Do you interpret the bible as literally true or metaphorical? Do you believe in hell?

 

Also, it's not like Jesus is the only being to have ever prayed. Or the only spiritual leader or example anybody can look to. Besides all the carnage (because let's be real, I pray to the gods of the vikings so it's not like I'm THAT against carnage. I just want it to be pro-me carnage haha), my biggest issue with Christianity was always that it felt very FOREIGN to me. Like there really isn't anything about any of the stories or Jesus or any of it really that I like. There are too many anti-woman themes in the religion itself. Too much subjugating women. Too much slavery to your god and "obedience". Like everything is about obedience. I just can't respect a god who creates people to "obey" him. I mean it's so lame. This whole "you have free will but if you don't love me back you're going to hell." etc. I mean there is just no part of this religion that works for me on any level, so it's hard for me to believe it works for anybody else outside of threats (maybe it does, but it's hard for me to be able to even comprehend that.) It just seems like stockholm syndrome to me. It seems like people have been so enslaved by this religion for so long that now they think it's super good and nice and the bad parts were just bad people who took things out of context when really it's the fluffy liberal christians who are taking things out of context.

This always brings crap....saying that it's interpretation sometimes....but if you read these things across the board like God directing us to a subscription of Love....and the consequences of not heeding this warning is many of the things you mention above, it makes a little more sense to me. 

 

If you would like to pick one of these, I can give you my take....but I've hashed this out many times over the years...and it always brings shit from the crowd.  But will be happy to if you would like.  Thanks C.

 

 

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1 hour ago, end3 said:

This always brings crap....saying that it's interpretation sometimes....but if you read these things across the board like God directing us to a subscription of Love....and the consequences of not heeding this warning is many of the things you mention above, it makes a little more sense to me. 

 

If you would like to pick one of these, I can give you my take....but I've hashed this out many times over the years...and it always brings shit from the crowd.  But will be happy to if you would like.  Thanks C.

 

 

 

Okay well I think it makes the most sense to start from where we each are coming from. I can argue/debate/discuss with a "straw christian" but I'm going to be making assumptions about you that may or may not be true so in the interest of knowing where we're starting from here, can you answer a few simple questions? These are not "gotchas". There is no trick here, I'm just trying to understand what your actual perspective is. So, here's my questionnaire:

 

1. Were you raised in Christianity? If not, how did you come to be in it?

2. What denomination, if any, are you a part of?

3. Are you more on the liberal metaphorical/mythical end of things in interpretation or more literalistic. Simple litmus test... do you believe the garden of eden story is a myth or a literal tale about a real talking snake and etc.?

4. Do you think your religion is "one of many paths up the same mountain" or are you a "my religion is the truth and everybody else is different degrees of wrongness?" If the latter, what makes you think this?

 

I could delve into stuff like hell here, but that feels like a "gotcha" even though I am interested to know what your view on that is. You're welcome to ask me any questions about my views as well.

 

And I will only be checking in once a day in the evening around this time (my internet blocker is helping me not be on the internet too much so I really can't check throughout the day or multiple times per day because doing that goes from "I'll look at this for one minute" to, "i'm going to just waste hours online and compose five novels' worth of posts." Plus the blocker wont' let me. That's the beautiful thing about the blocker.)

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