Should We Expect a Higher Consciousness

[Guest end3]

9 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Too many break-up songs on the radio for any of us to pretend love isn't flawed.

No, our personal interpretation of love is incomplete.....hence the need for a connection to the standard.  Coincidentally,  Christianity keeps intentionally providing a path. 

[Guest end3]

44 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

And I suppose you would also posit that this "greater consciousness that is not flawed" is god, who is the same today, yesterday, and forever; but who also changed his mind about rape, slavery, and eating unclean meat.

 

Prove; don't assert. 

Given our inability to define love, I guess we are left with what we observe.  Politics seems to be a really good example.  Dems/socialistic/millennial views of love being "everyone deserves" vs. the right's view.  Essentially the left's view is creating heaven on earth via a united effort vs. the right's view of heaven is something we aspire to, but until then, work your asses off and we will see what we might tithe towards  everyone's heaven.  Both looking towards love as the common goal, just different ways/ideas to get there.  And BECAUSE we are flawed, the left's view, although noble, doesn't work.

 

Go ahead, ask me another one.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

57 minutes ago, end3 said:

No, our personal interpretation of love is incomplete.....hence the need for a connection to the standard.  Coincidentally,  Christianity keeps intentionally providing a path. 

Ah yes, the perfectly flawless love of god... who throws us into eternal hellfire for not loving him back.  Who wouldn't want to be connected to that?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

29 minutes ago, end3 said:

Given our inability to define love, I guess we are left with what we observe.  Politics seems to be a really good example.  Dems/socialistic/millennial views of love being "everyone deserves" vs. the right's view.  Essentially the left's view is creating heaven on earth via a united effort vs. the right's view of heaven is something we aspire to, but until then, work your asses off and we will see what we might tithe towards  everyone's heaven.  Both looking towards love as the common goal, just different ways/ideas to get there.  And BECAUSE we are flawed, the left's view, although noble, doesn't work.

 

Go ahead, ask me another one.

The conservative/right approach seems to only love the wealthy and seek to establish hell on earth through corporate enslavement.  And BECAUSE corporations are collectives of flawed rich men's consciousnesses, the right's view, although deplorable, doesn't work.

 

Go ahead, try again.

[Guest end3]

17 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

The conservative/right approach seems to only love the wealthy and seek to establish hell on earth through corporate enslavement.  And BECAUSE corporations are collectives of flawed rich men's consciousnesses, the right's view, although deplorable, doesn't work.

 

Go ahead, try again.

Neither one will ultimately work, hence the f'n Democratic party.  Try to exercise you mind a little there McFly.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

28 minutes ago, end3 said:

Neither one will ultimately work, hence the f'n Democratic party.  Try to exercise you mind a little there McFly.

Easy on the ad hominems there, buddy.  We're all friends here... except florduh.

[Guest end3]

37 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Easy on the ad hominems there, buddy.  We're all friends here... except florduh.

Picking on you cause you won't budge in your stubbornness....lol.  It's all good.

[florduh]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Easy on the ad hominems there, buddy.  We're all friends here... except florduh.

 

I extend grace to you......

[florduh]

4 hours ago, end3 said:

I'm saying that there exists a greater consciousness, one which is not flawed, and that the collective must remain connected in order that it produce fruit. 

 

But  Why do you say that? Is it a logical conclusion made from the evidence, something you saw asserted on a YouTube video or just wishful thinking?

 

There is no actual Utopia. Know why? Everybody's idea of best/perfect/ideal is different.

 

Your conception of a consciousness that is without flaw may be entirely different from my vision and my own definition of "flaw." However, we can both imagine our own ideal. And imagine it is all we can do.

 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 hour ago, end3 said:

Picking on you cause you won't budge in your stubbornness....lol.  It's all good.

Stubbornness being defined as my refusal to accept unfounded and illogical assertions, I presume.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 hour ago, florduh said:

 

I extend grace to you......

Peace be with you.

[midniterider]

Is logic better than feeling ? Why or why not?

 

edit: Feeling does not equal Jesus Christ. Just feelings like an agnostic or an atheist might have.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 hour ago, midniterider said:

Is logic better than feeling ? Why or why not?

 

edit: Feeling does not equal Jesus Christ. Just feelings like an agnostic or an atheist might have.

I'd suggest that it depends on the situation.  Decisions such as career or which car to buy are best left to logic.   Deciding whether or not to throat-pinch a motherfucker, well, you're better off letting emotions take the driver's seat. 

[TruthSeeker0]

1 hour ago, midniterider said:

Is logic better than feeling ? Why or why not?

 

edit: Feeling does not equal Jesus Christ. Just feelings like an agnostic or an atheist might have.

I'm looking at the thread heading and the latest posts, and I'm like, has this derailed or what.  Lol. This only caught my mind because I've sort of wrestled with this one myself. And have concluded they're both excellent and necessary, it just depends on the scenario or situation. I'm rather clear why I remained in religion so long - because I'm a high feelies person. Am consciously working on the 'use your logic more' part of things.

[TruthSeeker0]

5 hours ago, end3 said:

  Essentially the left's view is creating heaven on earth via a united effort vs. the right's view of heaven is something we aspire to, but until then, work your asses off and we will see what we might tithe towards  everyone's heaven.  Both looking towards love as the common goal, just different ways/ideas to get there.  And BECAUSE we are flawed, the left's view, although noble, doesn't work.

 

Go ahead, ask me another one.

I've basically concluded there are two types of people - those who care for the well being of self, their in group and out groups,  and those who care only for the well being of themselves and/or their in group. Both are connected to one's ability to be empathetic and caring, the only difference is who they are empathetic and caring about.  I've also posited that both are correlated to voting patterns. The former are more likely to vote liberal and the latter conservative. No, I have no evidence, but I speak from personal experience here, having lived in a community where I was privy to the extent to which people identified or didn't identify with in their in group or out groups, and were rather verbal about it, and how they voted.

I've also considered that these attitudes could be related to religion in some sense, particularly fundamentalism, as fundamentalists are brainwashed and desensitized to the surrounding world about them, to the extent that they don't give a fuck if 99% of the population (the out group) is going to hell, because they themselves are saved and the out group doesn't matter.  I personally don't think that social conservative beliefs are the only reason why fundamentalists are more likely to vote conservative. They have already been "hardwired" to think only of their in group and demonize the out group, and so it's already natural. If nothing else, they identify with this type of thinking. Just some of my thoughts.

[sdelsolray]

7 hours ago, end3 said:

My forte was children's sermons....  I really enjoyed it.  Just very difficult to come up with an object lesson each week.  If you don't have a prop they are a tough audience....lol.

 

Children are easy marks for woo woo.

[Guest end3]

4 hours ago, florduh said:

 

But  Why do you say that? Is it a logical conclusion made from the evidence, something you saw asserted on a YouTube video or just wishful thinking?

 

There is no actual Utopia. Know why? Everybody's idea of best/perfect/ideal is different.

 

Your conception of a consciousness that is without flaw may be entirely different from my vision and my own definition of "flaw." However, we can both imagine our own ideal. And imagine it is all we can do.

 

 

 

How can you say we don’t agree when we don’t own a definition.

[Guest end3]

30 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

 

Children are easy marks for woo woo.

Was good for me.  Had spontaneous applause one time after a lesson... in a conservative church of Christ.... lol.  We had fun.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

4 minutes ago, end3 said:

How can you say we don’t agree when we don’t own a definition.

I think florduh's point is that we don't agree specifically because we each have our own definition.  I could be wrong, though, given that both my perceptions and my consciousness are flawed.

 

[Guest end3]

1 hour ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I've basically concluded there are two types of people - those who care for the well being of self, their in group and out groups,  and those who care only for the well being of themselves and/or their in group. Both are connected to one's ability to be empathetic and caring, the only difference is who they are empathetic and caring about.  I've also posited that both are correlated to voting patterns. The former are more likely to vote liberal and the latter conservative. No, I have no evidence, but I speak from personal experience here, having lived in a community where I was privy to the extent to which people identified or didn't identify with in their in group or out groups, and were rather verbal about it, and how they voted.

I've also considered that these attitudes could be related to religion in some sense, particularly fundamentalism, as fundamentalists are brainwashed and desensitized to the surrounding world about them, to the extent that they don't give a fuck if 99% of the population (the out group) is going to hell, because they themselves are saved and the out group doesn't matter.  I personally don't think that social conservative beliefs are the only reason why fundamentalists are more likely to vote conservative. They have already been "hardwired" to think only of their in group and demonize the out group, and so it's already natural. If nothing else, they identify with this type of thinking. Just some of my thoughts.

I think it has more to do with peers and success or failure when we are young.  If you will notice, the people that demand we love and defend all types are those that were more outcast themselves.  

[Guest end3]

3 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I think florduh's point is that we don't agree specifically because we each have our own definition.  I could be wrong, though, given that both my perceptions and my consciousness are flawed.

 

Right, but with a definition, a standard, we might find our perceptions and consciousness are understandable deviations.  Again, this imo is why Christ says know one another... commune. 

[TruthSeeker0]

12 minutes ago, end3 said:

I think it has more to do with peers and success or failure when we are young.  If you will notice, the people that demand we love and defend all types are those that were more outcast themselves.  

And as such, they have rightly developed empathy and understanding for others who experience difficulties. One of the best things that could happen in life to people is to experience a bit of difficulty themselves, for that very reason. What do you mean by 'success' or 'failure'? Being outcast or excluded is not success or failure, it's more a reflection of the people doing the excluding than the person that's excluded.

[TruthSeeker0]

20 minutes ago, end3 said:

Was good for me.  Had spontaneous applause one time after a lesson... in a conservative church of Christ.... lol.  We had fun.

So you enjoy selling the woo woo to children?

[Guest end3]

We have words and attempts at defining for lack of a better word, “love”.  This in my mind justifies reality and simultaneously demonstrates our lack of understanding.

[duderonomy]

15 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I never said, nor implied, that the "church" elected the president.  But the hardcore truth and reality is that a large portion of Trump supporters were and are still evangelical christians.  This speaks to my earlier point that a collective of flawed consciousnesses would be likely to make even more flawed decisions than an individual flawed consciousness.  One or two, or even twenty, people voting for Trump in '16 might have been viewed with amused pity; but a large portion of the nation voting for him is proving to be disastrous. 

 

This is the inherent flaw in End3's thought process here.   Not only should we not expect a higher consciousness; but we should actively seek to prevent it.   A cursory glance at life in North Korea should be more than enough warning against the establishment of a collective consciousness. 

 

Yeah, you implied it. You implied it big time, and what you said here in response proves it, at least to me. Other readers can decide for themselves I guess, although I doubt that many would give a crap.

I don't want to argue. I just wish the political stuff would stay corralled in the ToT, and I'm only harping on it because you brought up the current POTUS.

 

I won't ask you to explain which great disaster(s) you are referring to as being the results of a large portion of the nation voting for him [Trump], or why you might look upon one or two or even twenty people voting for Trump with amused pity.  That is, I won't ask you to explain it here in the Lion's Den. 

 

But more to the topic, I think you might be conflating what End3 is saying about some supposed or imagined "higher consciousness" with what I've heard described as "group-think".

Myself, I tend to think the collective "Trump Derangement Syndrome" type of thinking is group think. He was a media darling until he said he was running for President, and then the group was told to hate him.

 

On the other hand, End asks if we should expect a higher conscientiousness, and I would say no. Sadly, Asshat is as far as life on Earth has evolved so far.