Catholic church dynamics invite pedophiles!

[◊ Weezer ◊]

I read an article on a Catholic web site where the Bishop was pleading for prayers and fasting to stop the sexual abuse.  I wrote to him suggesting they do more than prayer and fasting, and even bringing the abusers to justice.   LOL, I knew they wouldn't listen to the suggestion of disbanding the church, so I suggested they look at the theories and dynamics of human motivation and behavior.  How the positions, their requirements and traditions might attract people who are "different."  Pedophiles, and narcissistic personalities with "God syndromes,"  believing they should be entitled to a few fringe "benefits."  And who to heck would want to wear those gaudy robes??   Any bets as to whether I will get a response??

[Wertbag]

Really depends on how you worded it.  Was it a practical suggestion on how to take steps, or just a laugh? 

[1989]

The problem the Church faces here is the confidentiality of the confessional.  If the Priests start wagging tongues who would trust them to keep their secrets?  Not just Big things like pederasty or murder, but infidelity, jealousy, gossip; I don't know what goes on in the Church, but I can see the lay peoples losing even more trust once sacred institutions are further broken.  That's a powerful incentive to keep things quiet.  It's probably cynical of me, but it's probably in the Church's best interest in keeping that sort of thing quiet as much as possible.  As for the peoples' lives they ruin, well, there are rewards in Heaven, right?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

You're looking at it all wrong.  The lord placed pedophiles in the church in order to test and purify his bride.  What could be more pure than a girl who grows up with sexual abuse and becomes a porn star with serious daddy issues?

 

Apparently, christ's dream girl isn't much different than any other dude's.

[HoneyBib]

10 hours ago, 1989 said:

The problem the Church faces here is the confidentiality of the confessional.  If the Priests start wagging tongues who would trust them to keep their secrets?  Not just Big things like pederasty or murder, but infidelity, jealousy, gossip; I don't know what goes on in the Church, but I can see the lay peoples losing even more trust once sacred institutions are further broken.  That's a powerful incentive to keep things quiet.  It's probably cynical of me, but it's probably in the Church's best interest in keeping that sort of thing quiet as much as possible.  As for the peoples' lives they ruin, well, there are rewards in Heaven, right?

The rewards in heaven are even more mindless worship, but instead of it being every Sunday it is every single day, but not only is it just that, they will be jumping around their super "loving" God who sits on his giant throne all day!

[TruthSeeker0]

49 minutes ago, HoneyBib said:

The rewards in heaven are even more mindless worship, but instead of it being every Sunday it is every single day, but not only is it just that, they will be jumping around their super "loving" God who sits on his giant throne all day!

Just what the doctor ordered, more mindless worship. Your post reminded me of one of those important moments at the beginning of my deconversion. I was trying to make sense of heaven and hell and discussing my doubts with my therapist and my grief over people going to hell instead of heaven, when he told me life itself is enough for him and the idea of living forever in such a heaven is utterly depressing for him. And yeah, the more I thought about it, the more depressing it became for me.

[older]

I posted this on another thread here on this issue — The Onion's article that says no normal person is going to sign up to be a priest. Heavy on sarcasm. 

 

 

https://www.theonion.com/vatican-on-sex-abuse-report-listen-no-normal-person-1828426080

[◊ Weezer ◊]

23 hours ago, Wertbag said:

Really depends on how you worded it.  Was it a practical suggestion on how to take steps, or just a laugh? 

 

It was difficult, but the letter to the Bishop was written as serious practical suggestions.  It was hard to not write something like the Onion article posted above by older.  But I knew if I did that it would thrown in the trash by his secretary, which may have happened anyway.

 

After years of studying the history of the Catholic church, it is hard have any respect for the organization.  They have pulled off one of the biggest and most dangerous hoaxes ever pulled on the human race. And the Muslims have done the same.

 

This is my rant for the week.

[1989]

11 hours ago, HoneyBib said:

The rewards in heaven are even more mindless worship, but instead of it being every Sunday it is every single day, but not only is it just that, they will be jumping around their super "loving" God who sits on his giant throne all day!

 

Yeah, Heaven was never really fleshed out in the Bible.  If there's a Final Judgement, why does it need walls?  Streets of gold?  Mansions?  Obviously Heaven is for poor people jealous of the rich.  I find it amusing that for all the talk of free will that goes on in defense of the Church they're willing to give it all up in a second for an ill-defined paradise where they can't sin.  I mean, have you ever noticed that a person's vision of Heaven is molded perfectly to their tastes?

[Daffodil]

On 8/27/2018 at 9:09 AM, 1989 said:

The problem the Church faces here is the confidentiality of the confessional.  If the Priests start wagging tongues who would trust them to keep their secrets?  Not just Big things like pederasty or murder, but infidelity, jealousy, gossip; I don't know what goes on in the Church, but I can see the lay peoples losing even more trust once sacred institutions are further broken.  That's a powerful incentive to keep things quiet.  It's probably cynical of me, but it's probably in the Church's best interest in keeping that sort of thing quiet as much as possible.  As for the peoples' lives they ruin, well, there are rewards in Heaven, right?

 

Confidentiality is definitely part of the problem, but there is actually a whole web of issues making this a perfect storm for abuse.  First, the belief that no sin is any worse than any other.  So lying, gluttony, rape, coveting, using the Lord's name in vain, murder, stealing, etc. are all equal in their eyes, so equally forgivable.  Second, the belief that God will forgive any sin and "erase" it from existence.  Third, that repentance can "cure" any sin.  Fourth, that prayer actually works and changes both people and God's mind.  Fifth, that God can "change hearts" and make people "good", preventing them from ever committing the sin again.  It's just a perfectly formed system for propagating evil, ironically!  I can do almost anything the world would look down on, confess and ask forgiveness, do a little penance, everyone will think I am "all better", then go do the bad thing again and start the vicious cycle over again.  What could be better for someone who is naturally inclined to doing evil, illegal things?

[1989]

On 8/27/2018 at 10:09 AM, 1989 said:

The problem the Church faces here is the confidentiality of the confessional.  If the Priests start wagging tongues who would trust them to keep their secrets?  Not just Big things like pederasty or murder, but infidelity, jealousy, gossip; I don't know what goes on in the Church, but I can see the lay peoples losing even more trust once sacred institutions are further broken.  That's a powerful incentive to keep things quiet.  It's probably cynical of me, but it's probably in the Church's best interest in keeping that sort of thing quiet as much as possible.  As for the peoples' lives they ruin, well, there are rewards in Heaven, right?

 

On 8/28/2018 at 10:35 PM, Daffodil said:

 

Confidentiality is definitely part of the problem, but there is actually a whole web of issues making this a perfect storm for abuse.  First, the belief that no sin is any worse than any other.  So lying, gluttony, rape, coveting, using the Lord's name in vain, murder, stealing, etc. are all equal in their eyes, so equally forgivable.  Second, the belief that God will forgive any sin and "erase" it from existence.  Third, that repentance can "cure" any sin.  Fourth, that prayer actually works and changes both people and God's mind.  Fifth, that God can "change hearts" and make people "good", preventing them from ever committing the sin again.  It's just a perfectly formed system for propagating evil, ironically!  I can do almost anything the world would look down on, confess and ask forgiveness, do a little penance, everyone will think I am "all better", then go do the bad thing again and start the vicious cycle over again.  What could be better for someone who is naturally inclined to doing evil, illegal things?

 

Well, Catholics in Australia are acting completely predictably.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/catholics-in-australia-wont-make-priests-report-confessions/ar-BBMGah7?OCID=ansmsnnews11

 

I hope a law gets passed or something.  If the Catholics won't police themselves obviously someone else has to do it for them, because they've done a shit job so far.

[TruthSeeker0]

On 8/28/2018 at 10:35 PM, Daffodil said:

 

Confidentiality is definitely part of the problem, but there is actually a whole web of issues making this a perfect storm for abuse.  First, the belief that no sin is any worse than any other.  So lying, gluttony, rape, coveting, using the Lord's name in vain, murder, stealing, etc. are all equal in their eyes, so equally forgivable.  Second, the belief that God will forgive any sin and "erase" it from existence.  Third, that repentance can "cure" any sin.  Fourth, that prayer actually works and changes both people and God's mind.  Fifth, that God can "change hearts" and make people "good", preventing them from ever committing the sin again.  It's just a perfectly formed system for propagating evil, ironically!  I can do almost anything the world would look down on, confess and ask forgiveness, do a little penance, everyone will think I am "all better", then go do the bad thing again and start the vicious cycle over again.  What could be better for someone who is naturally inclined to doing evil, illegal things?

This is exactly why abusers of all kinds can masquerade as good people under the guise of religion and in many cases have free reign if they are in a position of power. And it's one of the prime reasons why I'm pretty anti-religion, even for liberal churches. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

9 hours ago, 1989 said:

 

I hope a law gets passed or something.  If the Catholics won't police themselves obviously someone else has to do it for them, because they've done a shit job so far.

 

They have always had to have outside pressure to face reality and make changes.  Like admitting the earth is round  and revolves around the sun,  on down to addressing sexual abuse.  Australia will have an uphill battle since they have so much influence there.  But hopefully their laity is waking up.