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Goodbye Jesus

The Psychology Behind Prayer and Ritual


TheRedneckProfessor

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39 minutes ago, sunstring said:

I have a strange experience to relate.

 

About 2 months ago I was lying in bed late in the afternoon, then a feeling of what I could describe as a warm fuzzy feeling started burning in my heart. No more than 2-3 minute's later the phone rang, I answered it to a minister who said he thought to call me after he was praying for me.

 

After the call ended the feeling left me, then I thought on this experience for a while and figured prayer work's by sending signals to people.

 

Or I'm a empath

I've had similar experiences, both inside and outside of religion.  There is a (partial) psychological explanation for it.

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51 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I've had similar experiences, both inside and outside of religion.  There is a (partial) psychological explanation for it.

Mirror neurons?

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14 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

god's not real.

But you're comparing feeding pigeons, pigeon food, and their responses, to an unreal god feeding humans spiritual food.

 

lol.

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41 minutes ago, end3 said:

But you're comparing feeding pigeons, pigeon food, and their responses, to an unreal god feeding humans spiritual food.

 

lol.

No, I am NOT.  Quit pretending you don't notice the word RANDOM in every one of my posts.  I never said anything about "god" feeding anybody.  You are not this thick, End3.  And I've already explained this twice.  god doesn't feed anybody; god doesn't answer prayer.  RANDOM fucking coincidence does that.  That is the point you are pretending not to grasp.

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14 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

No, I am NOT.  Quit pretending you don't notice the word RANDOM in every one of my posts.  I never said anything about "god" feeding anybody.  You are not this thick, End3.  And I've already explained this twice.  god doesn't feed anybody; god doesn't answer prayer.  RANDOM fucking coincidence does that.  That is the point you are pretending not to grasp.

I get your point....I think it simplistic given the varied requests/prayers out there and random coincidence answering them.  Maybe we should speak about alignment?  Is the universe random?

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2 hours ago, end3 said:

I get your point....I think it simplistic given the varied requests/prayers out there and random coincidence answering them.  Maybe we should speak about alignment?  Is the universe random?

Explain my point to me first, so that I know we're on the same page.  Then we'll talk about the universe. 

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3 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Explain my point to me first, so that I know we're on the same page.  Then we'll talk about the universe. 

You're saying that our brains attune us to random events, specifically affirmation of prayer....which is a decent sub-guess...but then, per my question, we would have to decide if the events that sway us are actually random.  Fair enough?

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31 minutes ago, end3 said:

You're saying that our brains attune us to random events, specifically affirmation of prayer....which is a decent sub-guess...but then, per my question, we would have to decide if the events that sway us are actually random.  Fair enough?

Surely you've been around long enough to have heard of the praying to the milk jug experiment, which consistently demonstrates that prayer is "answered" randomly.  Did you look at the results of the scientific attempts at testing the efficacy of prayer?

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29 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Surely you've been around long enough to have heard of the praying to the milk jug experiment, which consistently demonstrates that prayer is "answered" randomly.  Did you look at the results of the scientific attempts at testing the efficacy of prayer?

Seems meaningless unless we know whether we are subject to randomness or some order....there is a verse that suggests we are subject to order......js.

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RP, you're playing checkers with a pigeon, or, more precisely, you're dealing with a passive-aggressive troll.  It's certainly entertaining to watch, until it isn't.

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10 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

RP, you're playing checkers with a pigeon, or, more precisely, you're dealing with a passive-aggressive troll.  It's certainly entertaining to watch, until it isn't.

As opposed to what... an aging lawyer prick...

 

You're too stupid and arrogant to understand I really didn't understand his point until that last post.  But you assume I'm playing checkers....  Why don't you just let us get through our own trust stuff and you worry about you....  Or, you could choose to quit being a dick. 

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1 hour ago, end3 said:

Seems meaningless unless we know whether we are subject to randomness or some order....there is a verse that suggests we are subject to order......js.

If you're referring to a bible verse, this game gets old quick.

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20 minutes ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

If you're referring to a bible verse, this game gets old quick.

We are discussing potential order in the universe.  It intrigues me why there is a verse that says "all things work together..." in a very old book.  So my thinking is either it's random and no god or ordered such that all things are working towards some end.  Btw, I want to apologize.....I was exceedingly harsh to you yesterday.  You must have hit one of my old triggers.  Apologies.

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47 minutes ago, end3 said:

We are discussing potential order in the universe.  It intrigues me why there is a verse that says "all things work together..." in a very old book.  So my thinking is either it's random and no god or ordered such that all things are working towards some end.  Btw, I want to apologize.....I was exceedingly harsh to you yesterday.  You must have hit one of my old triggers.  Apologies.

Except that all things do NOT work together for good, otherwise nobody would ever have to ask why bad things happen to good people.  Do you know WHY people ask this question?  It's because random things happen to ALL people.  Sometimes those things are favourable; sometimes they are not.

 

There, we've established that it is random.  Deconverted yet?

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11 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Except that all things do NOT work together for good, otherwise nobody would ever have to ask why bad things happen to good people.  Do you know WHY people ask this question?  It's because random things happen to ALL people.  Sometimes those things are favourable; sometimes they are not.

 

There, we've established that it is random.  Deconverted yet?

No, lol, not convinced. 

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1 hour ago, end3 said:

As opposed to what... an aging lawyer prick...

 

You're too stupid and arrogant to understand I really didn't understand his point until that last post.  But you assume I'm playing checkers....  Why don't you just let us get through our own trust stuff and you worry about you....  Or, you could choose to quit being a dick. 

Hey hey, no need for profanity fall out boy.

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24 minutes ago, end3 said:

No, lol, not convinced. 

Hug's!

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If there is no standard, how do we know that what happens to people is good or bad? 

 

If God said "all things" work together for good  to them that believe, wouldn't "all things" by definition include random things?

 

By definition, "all things" that happen to them that believe would include everything whether favorable or not, right?

 

Just thought I'd thicken the soup just for fun and legitimate questions. 

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1 hour ago, end3 said:

We are discussing potential order in the universe.  It intrigues me why there is a verse that says "all things work together..." in a very old book.  So my thinking is either it's random and no god or ordered such that all things are working towards some end.  Btw, I want to apologize.....I was exceedingly harsh to you yesterday.  You must have hit one of my old triggers.  Apologies.

Just my opinion, but here it is. The bible is largely what I would term, in a historical sense, a written record of legends/stories of where certain civilizations/cultures/religions were , largely the Jewish one, at certain points in time, and of their understanding of how they and the world came to be. Only it was a written record that happened to be preserved in writing, while thousands of those records/legends were passed down orally and not retained in the same way(this is the case for example in  most native american cultures). And at the time these writings were compiled, there was certainly some end point in mind with those doing the compiling. There was likely an end point in the writing itself, ie with the 10 commandments, and all the gazillions rules and regulations in the OT. From a historian's perspective, it is utter foolishness to interpret what is in the bible in a literal sense and take it as straight truth. Most Jews in fact will tell you that. The Talmud includes and expounds on what Christians call the Old Testament, and includes the interpretations of thousands of rabbis. While Judaism seems to celebrate the right of the individual to use critical thinking skills, a great many versions of Christianity seem to demand that one worship the holy book and not examine it critically. Anyway, my main point is that a phrase like "all things work together" is certainly not surprising in this text. What is problematic in Christianity is the lack of critical regard for the text, and complete inability by some to place it in a historical construct.

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1 hour ago, end3 said:

  Btw, I want to apologize.....I was exceedingly harsh to you yesterday.  You must have hit one of my old triggers.  Apologies.

I dont even recall, such is my memory lol. And I have developed exceedingly thick skin, or thicker skin, I hope, over the last couple years. If I'm completely honest, I don't mind chatting with you at all, I just really wish that you'd be able to see things more without the god blinders on. And that you wouldn't think it's always you against us here. Truth told, we hold to our beliefs as strongly as we do because they have truly set us free and put the past into perspective, and I think most people here just wish that could be the case with more people. But, until people are able to reach the critical "maybe I am wrong afterall, lets examine the evidence properly, not just on one side" juncture, the conclusion is foregone.

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17 minutes ago, duderonomy said:

If there is no standard, how do we know that what happens to people is good or bad? 

 

If God said "all things" work together for good  to them that believe, wouldn't "all things" by definition include random things?

 

By definition, "all things" that happen to them that believe would include everything whether favorable or not, right?

 

Just thought I'd thicken the soup just for fun and legitimate questions. 

You bet. This is certainly what I was taught. He sends the sun and the rain, he sends the fun and the pain. But dont worry, its all awesome, because its the lord god we're talking of here, and he isn't to be questioned, he's luv, so that's the gravest sin in the book. He sends you bucketloads of crap -- you bow down and worship and give thanks. And that my friends  is why xtianity or at least my ex-fundyism is so mentally healthy for you.

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12 minutes ago, duderonomy said:

If there is no standard, how do we know that what happens to people is good or bad? 

 

If God said "all things" work together for good  to them that believe, wouldn't "all things" by definition include random things?

 

By definition, "all things" that happen to them that believe would include everything whether favorable or not, right?

 

Just thought I'd thicken the soup just for fun and legitimate questions. 

 

Romans 8:28...

All we know is all actions....we don't recognize random, we can't technically. 

 

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I dont even recall, such is my memory lol. And I have developed exceedingly thick skin, or thicker skin, I hope, over the last couple years. If I'm completely honest, I don't mind chatting with you at all, I just really wish that you'd be able to see things more without the god blinders on. And that you wouldn't think it's always you against us here. Truth told, we hold to our beliefs as strongly as we do because they have truly set us free and put the past into perspective, and I think most people here just wish that could be the case with more people. But, until people are able to reach the critical "maybe I am wrong afterall, lets examine the evidence properly, not just on one side" juncture, the conclusion is foregone.

I can see a shift in my own perspective lately.  I'm even starting to see some of the politically left's reasoning....shocking even to me.  The crux for me is twofold.  One, most of the non-belief reasoning seems tied to our current knowledge base and ability to measure.  I'm just not willing to make the belief decision based on this.  Secondly, belief for me has never been about facts, science, etc., it's about a feeling for me.  Florduh reckoned Christianity the other day to a boat that moves us from one spot to another and then it's possible to move further...kind of what you seem to be describing.   I don't get the same feelings for science or any other means of Spiritual travel at this point.  It's unlikely I will deconvert regardless of my understanding the points made.   

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3 hours ago, end3 said:

I can see a shift in my own perspective lately.  I'm even starting to see some of the politically left's reasoning....shocking even to me.  The crux for me is twofold.  One, most of the non-belief reasoning seems tied to our current knowledge base and ability to measure.  I'm just not willing to make the belief decision based on this.  Secondly, belief for me has never been about facts, science, etc., it's about a feeling for me.  Florduh reckoned Christianity the other day to a boat that moves us from one spot to another and then it's possible to move further...kind of what you seem to be describing.   I don't get the same feelings for science or any other means of Spiritual travel at this point.  It's unlikely I will deconvert regardless of my understanding the points made.   

Mate if you ever make it out of Christianity you'll have absolutely nothing to hold on to, and that's not so bad. One could say you live with a joyful curiosity, nothing is painted for you. Personally I don't care if you ever join the dark side, in a way I get the sharpen my teeth on the likes of you (Don't punch a wall because of that) But at the very least you're consistent to your faith position, who knows in a thousand year's or so your own word's might be considered holy script.

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4 hours ago, end3 said:

 

Romans 8:28...

All we know is all actions....we don't recognize random, we can't technically. 

 

 

 

 

 

I know a slot machine is not going to really pay out. But why do I play them, because it randomly gives me a little treat here and there.

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