Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted September 10, 2018 Author Super Moderator Share Posted September 10, 2018 6 hours ago, duderonomy said: If there is no standard, how do we know that what happens to people is good or bad? If God said "all things" work together for good to them that believe, wouldn't "all things" by definition include random things? By definition, "all things" that happen to them that believe would include everything whether favorable or not, right? Just thought I'd thicken the soup just for fun and legitimate questions. There may not be a universal standard beyond the relative subjectivity of the individual; but I would submit that there are certain things that most would consider "bad. " A person who never smoked dying of lung cancer, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted September 10, 2018 Author Super Moderator Share Posted September 10, 2018 6 hours ago, end3 said: No, lol, not convinced. I wonder if this is because, by your own admission, the science here doesn't really mean much to you, when it comes to belief. Which makes you seem somewhat arrogant for feeling qualified to comment on the thread to begin with. Like, "oh, I'm going to make a 'junk science' comment, as if I have the authority and qualification to do so; but I'm not really that much into science. I just don't want to have to let go my little security blankie. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted September 10, 2018 Author Super Moderator Share Posted September 10, 2018 7 hours ago, end3 said: Romans 8:28... All we know is all actions....we don't recognize random, we can't technically. Action is what we do in this life; random is what this life does to us. A case could be made for how much our actions influence the random, like if we had left for work five minutes earlier, we might not have been involved in the car crash; but the random would still be part of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Action is what we do in this life; random is what this life does to us. A case could be made for how much our actions influence the random, like if we had left for work five minutes earlier, we might not have been involved in the car crash; but the random would still be part of life. We don't know that what life does to us is random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 3 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: I wonder if this is because, by your own admission, the science here doesn't really mean much to you, when it comes to belief. Which makes you seem somewhat arrogant for feeling qualified to comment on the thread to begin with. Like, "oh, I'm going to make a 'junk science' comment, as if I have the authority and qualification to do so; but I'm not really that much into science. I just don't want to have to let go my little security blankie. " Prof, if you truly understand that the universe is random, then I suggest you let everyone know the science behind this. It seems rather arrogant from my perspective that you should declare it random without the evidence. I was also trying to help you understand my reasons for belief. It's a feeling, a feeling I don't get from the data or logical conclusions. You seem to want to think me weak for not turning loose of this and declaring that all belief must be based on data and logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 3 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: There may not be a universal standard beyond the relative subjectivity of the individual; but I would submit that there are certain things that most would consider "bad. " A person who never smoked dying of lung cancer, for example. How can you even say this given your last remarks.... love and baseball are not constants, but bad is.... ??? Dude, you under stress or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted September 10, 2018 Author Super Moderator Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 hour ago, end3 said: How can you even say this given your last remarks.... love and baseball are not constants, but bad is.... ??? Dude, you under stress or something Nothing in my statement even implies that bad is a constant, only that there are certain things that mist would consider bad. Like school shootings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted September 10, 2018 Author Super Moderator Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 hour ago, end3 said: We don't know that what life does to us is random. If your alternative is "gawd dunnit," then every car accident, every home lost to a hurricane, every plane crash, demonstrates the cruelty of your god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted September 10, 2018 Author Super Moderator Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 hour ago, end3 said: Prof, if you truly understand that the universe is random, then I suggest you let everyone know the science behind this. It seems rather arrogant from my perspective that you should declare it random without the evidence. I was also trying to help you understand my reasons for belief. It's a feeling, a feeling I don't get from the data or logical conclusions. You seem to want to think me weak for not turning loose of this and declaring that all belief must be based on data and logic. Most people already understand that the universe is random, certainly most people in this forum. You're the only one, so far, who doesn't seem willing to accept it. And since the science doesn't mean anything to you, anyway, why would I bother? I don't think you're weak. You're just not ready. And maybe you never will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruthSeeker0 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 11 hours ago, end3 said: Secondly, belief for me has never been about facts, science, etc., it's about a feeling for me. Florduh reckoned Christianity the other day to a boat that moves us from one spot to another and then it's possible to move further...kind of what you seem to be describing. I am glad you realize this, because its what people have stated over and over on here. Faith isn't using your reason or logic critically and making decisions according to them...if it was, a whole lot more people would be leaving their faith. Faith is feeling and believing, or wanting to believe, what you read/are told (which is most of the time one sided). I know people on the fence, and some have told me, they cling to it due to the hope of an afterlife, regardless of their doubts when they use their logic and reason. Which is why yes, we can call that wishful thinking. It's human nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruthSeeker0 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 48 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: If your alternative is "gawd dunnit," then every car accident, every home lost to a hurricane, every plane crash, demonstrates the cruelty of your god. This is why I still argue that those with the god delusion have a tremendous blind spot in regards to feeling empathy for other humans. If they believe in god, and god wills all the awful shit that happens to people, it kinda says something, that they are able to remain so indifferent to it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted September 10, 2018 Author Super Moderator Share Posted September 10, 2018 47 minutes ago, TruthSeeker0 said: This is why I still argue that those with the god delusion have a tremendous blind spot in regards to feeling empathy for other humans. If they believe in god, and god wills all the awful shit that happens to people, it kinda says something, that they are able to remain so indifferent to it all. It's for jesus to have compassion, not that bitch bride of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 21 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: If your alternative is "gawd dunnit," then every car accident, every home lost to a hurricane, every plane crash, demonstrates the cruelty of your god. I don't know Prof....seems to me the older I get and the more difficult times I have endured, the more I appreciate love. I suppose we could choose to be bitter as we grow older....get off my lawn....but what a tragedy to pass that on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted September 11, 2018 Author Super Moderator Share Posted September 11, 2018 On 9/11/2018 at 9:50 AM, end3 said: I don't know Prof....seems to me the older I get and the more difficult times I have endured, the more I appreciate love. I suppose we could choose to be bitter as we grow older....get off my lawn....but what a tragedy to pass that on. Well, you are completely ignoring the point I made in my post; but, okay, I'll run with it. Because even love is random. Romantic love... there might be a dozen or so girls out there who would be just perfect for me. But because of the random distribution of talent and personality, they all live in China, Ireland, Tanzania, and Belize. Few live out here where the foxes fuck, where I live. And sure, I love my son. But he is just the result of the random fusion of random gametes and genetic variation. He could be a completely different son, had any of said variables been any different. He might even be a she. Look toward love as your paradigm of hope if you'd like; but don't kid yourself that it isn't as random as anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruthSeeker0 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 3 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Because even love is random. Romantic love... there might be a dozen or so girls out there who would be just perfect for me. But because of the random distribution of talent and personality, they all live in China, Ireland, Tanzania, and Belize. Few live out here where the foxes fuck, where I live. Don't worry. I live in a big city and even here, it appears because of that random distribution, the stars just don't align in the romance department. At least not in regards to that phenomenon of online dating sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 On 9/10/2018 at 12:55 AM, end3 said: Romans 8:28... All we know is all actions....we don't recognize random, we can't technically. Speaking of the Apostle Paul...or actions...or corners...or stuff in public in front of the whole world... Acts 26:26: For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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