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I believe in Jesus again


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6 hours ago, duderonomy said:

 

I tried to shoe-horn what into a discussion about what? 

Do I need to post more pictures for you?

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I have gone back to Christianity.   Yes, Jesus existed, and He's for real. He's going to come back any day now and beat the shit out of everyone that pisses me off and punish everyone that e

https://www.promisekeepers.org/   You got your tickets yet, Dude? You and I and End3 could all meet up there and fellowship, sing and cry together. You know, do man shit. Man shit for Jesus!

you probably have 1 opportunity to walk the street of gold once then you get stuck in the pews to sing hallelu fucking lah for eternity

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2 hours ago, midniterider said:

RNP: And I can guarantee you that a simple DNA test on said bread and wine might confirm the existence of the priest and anybody else who may have touched it; but it still won't confirm the existence of jesus.

 

.........

 

Should we rely on the claim of what 'might' be ... or on the actual evidence obtained by an actual DNA test?

There is no claim of what "might" be here.  The reason I used the word "might" is because, depending on how the bread was handled, DNA from the priest all the way back to the baker, may or may not be present.  If gloves and other PPE were used, a DNA assay might just as easily yield no usable data.

 

Beyond that, give us an actual DNA sample to compare to and then trust the data.

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6 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

There is no claim of what "might" be here.  The reason I used the word "might" is because, depending on how the bread was handled, DNA from the priest all the way back to the baker, may or may not be present.  If gloves and other PPE were used, a DNA assay might just as easily yield no usable data.

 

Beyond that, give us an actual DNA sample to compare to and then trust the data.

 

Sorry, “i guarantee you” sounded like a strong claim about something. My bad. 

 

I suppose in order to get a dna sanple off a piece of bread one would have to actually look for one. I wonder if anyone has done that. Or have we only just done thought experiments about communion bread which really only yield “thought” evidence as opposed to physical evidence. 

 

For all i know every communion cracker ever eaten has Jesus dna on it. Now from a common sense perspective it seems unlikely but unless someone does some physical testing to see, then anything said is just conjecture. 

 

I’m not saying jesus dna is or is not on communion bread. It would be silly to assume one way or the other without evidence.  

 

Do we even have dna sanples on file of every human being on earth? No. 

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19 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Perhaps the reason it showed nothing is precisely because there is nothing to show.

 

I said,  "The link you provided showed nothing. I could use it to 'show' that I am correct just as quickly as you could use it to show that you are correct. Useless stuff."

 

Prof, I still miss the old board style. We could quote the whole post...what was said plus the reply. Now we just get the reply and it gets disjointed  sometimes. At least that's my observation. What do you think?

 

But anyway, if there was nothing to show, as in definitive proof, maybe it was because it was a  link to Google search results? You aren't going to rely on such a thing  as some kind of a proof to make your point are you? 

 

"Perhaps" indeed. Perhaps a professor, and especially a redneck professor, should bring something better than a guess and a haphazard Google search when trying to either score a point or prove one?   :Hmm:

 

 

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19 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Have it your way, dude.  But I think you're trying to make a connection that simply isn't there.  I've attempted to show that just because something shows up in religion doesn't automatically mean that thing exists, whether environmental or not.  If you'd rather believe in spirits than reality, that's your affair. 

Right, but I'm not having it my way anymore than you are having it your way. Aren't we all looking for the truth?  We could take what shows up in religions one at a time and for most of them I wouldn't give a crap. Little miss Can't Be Wrong and I were going on about environment when you jumped in. Neither of you made your case, and neither of you had a good solid answer to what I said.d

However, as im sure you know, the onus is on you to substantiate your claim.  It is not enough for you to simply refuse to accept arguments to the contrary.  And, if your logic dictates that anything, however ridiculous, that made its way into religion should not be immediately discounted, then I expect you should also support the idea that snakes were once capable of speech, and that magical fruit once had the ability to rob an entire species of its innocence.   

No, the onus is not on me because I'm not trying to prove anything.  You also believe in things not proven, don't you?

 

19 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

It should also be noted that many cultures, in many environments, have also believed in dragons, unicorns, and sea monsters.  The science supporting the existence of any of these is as weak and, in your words, "useless" as that which demonstrates that spirits exist.  But, people believed it, so it must be true.

I'm not here to argue what many cultures in many environments have believed. I've never said that "if people believed it, it must be true" or anything like that, so please don't put me in their camp. Oh, and the science supporting the existence of gravity waves was weak, until...

 

And that is really the crux of your argument, here.  People believed in spirits, so they must exist.  The problem is: that is neither sound, nor is it safe, reasoning.  I sincerely hope you can see where such logic can lead.  History bears plenty enough examples of tragedy and horror derived from people equating belief with reality.

Prof, I'm also not trying to argue morality here. I could bring up example after example of tragedy, murder, genocides, wars, and other so many example of man's inhumanity towards man because of perceived reality.  The crux of my argument here is that if the environment alone produced "gods" then spirits must exist in the environment because of all of the religions that believe in spirits as "gods".  "People believe in spirits so they must exist"? That's not the crux of my argument at all. 

Prof, I hope you aren't this sloppy in your real life professoring.

 

Each to his own, though.  So if you would like to continue down this rabbit hole, please start by supporting your claim that something exists simply because people believe in it.  Then substantiate how that claim relates to spirits.  And finally, demonstrate how said spirits are particular to the christian faith.  That, I think, will be sufficient to put paid to any and all of your detractors and neatly wrap up this entire debacle.  It's an uphill battle for you that will require a lot of patience and dedication; but I'll gladly wait.

Prof, really? You have thrown every rabbit you could get your hands on at me hoping I would follow it down a hole. You have put words in mouth, or at least misrepresented what I said here. You have assumed facts not in evidence. You are assuming that your position is the correct one, and you are trying to burden me with a list of things I "must" do to put paid (as if I owe them anything) to my "detractors" and wrap up this "debacle".   What debacle? 

 

 

19 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 

 

Have a good day.

Thanks Prof. You too.

 

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20 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Are religions based on what is in the environment? Animalistic religions certainly are. Thor et al was based on the idea of a thunder god. 

 

Or is the case that religions believe in spirits but this is not based on what is in the environment? Or did humans makes gods then given them attributes to try and explain things? Back to Thor, was he based on thunder, or was he created and as an explanatory attribute said that he created the thunder?

 

LoFall,

 

The Prof and I and a couple of other adults are discussing stuff here right now.  Take your Thor and Loki action figures and go play in your room until bedtime ok?  

 

 

 

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On 10/28/2018 at 11:24 PM, duderonomy said:

 

Nonetheless, both elephants and spirits made their way into religion. Maybe you and VerbosityCat  are correct and it is because of environment, but that just reinforces my point that spirits must exist in the environment around us.

 

 

On 10/29/2018 at 11:49 PM, duderonomy said:

If religions are based on what is in the environment, and many religions believe in various and sundry spirits, then various and sundry spirits must exist in those environments.

Here is precisely where you made the claim that a) spirits exist, and b) they must exist because people believe in them.

 

You can claim that my arguments are weak.  You can reject my arguments outright.  But until and unless you support your own arguments, I think we're done.

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On 10/12/2018 at 5:28 PM, Margee said:

I now feel the feel the spirit of god rising up in me........

 

Mary Jane is legal in Canada now, right? :rolleyes:

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On 10/23/2018 at 3:54 AM, duderonomy said:

 

Greetings to you too Lost!     I'm sorry about any confusion I may have caused you. 

 

This might all be a joke by me, but what if it isn't?  

 

 

 

I think that this line of Yours might  show that Your whole thread is a joke, but I don't know for sure.

 

He will forgive me but burn some of you motherfuckers  for doing the same shit I did because you aren't believers. True!

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On 10/31/2018 at 4:24 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 

Here is precisely where you made the claim that a) spirits exist, and b) they must exist because people believe in them.

 

You can claim that my arguments are weak.  You can reject my arguments outright.  But until and unless you support your own arguments, I think we're done.

 

Prof, I just re-read through the post I made where I responded in green.  I admit that I've grown sloppy in my arguments.  So much of what I said was rhetorical, and I'm sorry you and maybe others missed that. I'm sure some got my point.

 

If common animals that are known can become 'gods', then why can't common spirits that are known become 'gods'?

I posit that the fact that spirits have for thousands of years and by many divers peoples and cultures been seen as gods shows that spirits are as common in the environment as animals are IF the idea of gods comes from the environment.

 

Really Prof, this started as what I thought would be a fun exercise. I never thought that some people would get all emotional and pissy about stuff (not talking about you of course). I guess I didn't consider the "new" folks.

 

Anyway to sum up...Yes, your arguments are weak in this thread. Are mine? You say so, but all that I've argued between us is from a position using the logic presented re: the environment produces gods.  It's a matter of opinion then, right?

 

In the end, I think that weak arguments against are just as weak as weak arguments for.  Without proof, it's all faith and belief. 

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On 10/31/2018 at 6:49 PM, Lost said:

 

I think that this line of Yours might  show that Your whole thread is a joke, but I don't know for sure.

 

He will forgive me but burn some of you motherfuckers  for doing the same shit I did because you aren't believers. True!

 

You are very perceptive.  :)

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