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Goodbye Jesus

The Artist vs The Scientist


VerbosityCat

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On 10/26/2018 at 1:45 PM, VerbosityCat said:

Ugh, I really am supposed to be taking a break LOL

 

Ex-C can be very addicting for a variety of reasons. 🤣

 

Mainly because this is an outlet that many people don't get to have in real time, day to day life. Some people barely ever get to speak to any other ex christians at all, except here in this online community. I stumbled in here years ago based on a link someone left in another forum where I was moderating. And I found that I like it here. This is different than most of the forums I've been on over the years. And I stuck around. I took a few years off a while back as a general burn out on forum activity in and of itself, and went forum free for a while. But later wanted to check back in and take up reading and posting again. It wasn't this site that did anything to me, it was mainly burn out on arguing with apologists at other boards. It just got old. And I had personal issues that needed all my attention. 

 

During that time I drifted into probably the most materialistic and non spiritual mindset that I've ever been in during the course of my life. I was completely out of focus as far as the eastern mystical thinking and focus goes. I just dropped it. And over time I began to regret having dropped it. And I intentionally went back to meditation and listening to Kelly Howell Universal Mind meditation with brain sync every night going to bed and basically getting back into my naturalist spiritual mindset again. Life seemed to respond accordingly to the changes, both the materalistic drab place I was in, and coming back out of it with some inward power of intention and positive thinking. Everything has been on the up and up, literally, materialistically, since I took back to living a type of spiritual outlook again and getting back on track with meditation. 

 

And I could care less what factors go into these changes. Maybe this, it might be that, perhaps some other thing. I really don't care. If having a positive attitude, visualizing goals, feeling like you're attracting people, information and circumstances around yourself according to your thoughts and feelings renders real time, emotional well being and monetary results, count me in. The alternative sucks, I know that. I experienced it. Poo pooing around and thinking negatively doesn't seem to have the same results. So to hell with it. It matters very little whether or not someone else agrees with it. There's no one to convince. I just know that over the last 20 years or so I've been much better off when I maintain some type of spiritual focus. Mostly concerning mind stuff, meditation and so on.

 

And what applies to me might also apply to you, but not apply to someone else at all. So I have a "to each his own attitude" about spiritual thinking. I do feel like it comes natural to some but not others. And if the naturals deny themselves, the results can have a negative impact on their lives as you keep implying. I recognize the truth of what you're trying to say. And likewise, if someone's natural inclination is just materialistic thinking, it may do them no good to get mixed up in spiritual thinking. I could see how the negativity could go either way, if someone is denying their own gut feelings. 

 

Campbell said, "follow your bliss." 

 

We should keep in mind that materialism could be "bliss" for some people and if so, they ought to follow it. Hopefully they could find value in returning the favor and letting others do the same with spiritual thinking. 

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10 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:


 

And what applies to me might also apply to you, but not apply to someone else at all. So I have a "to each his own attitude" about spiritual thinking. I do feel like it comes natural to some but not others. And if the naturals deny themselves, the results can have a negative impact on their lives as you keep implying. I recognize the truth of what you're trying to say. And likewise, if someone's natural inclination is just materialistic thinking, it may do them no good to get mixed up in spiritual thinking. I could see how the negativity could go either way, if someone is denying their own gut feelings. 

 

Campbell said, "follow your bliss." 

 

We should keep in mind that materialism could be "bliss" for some people and if so, they ought to follow it. Hopefully they could find value in returning the favor and letting others do the same with spiritual thinking. 

I've never thought of meditation, relaxation, and other such practices as being spiritual, and in fact I don't really see a reason why a materialist couldn't benefit from them, and have no conflict with doing so. I find them somewhat similar to Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and 'training' your mind and thoughts in a more positive direction, except that meditation is simply letting thoughts go and giving your brain a break, so to speak.

 

Where would the conflict arise with materialism, or do you think it does? I think these can totally be complementary, in spite of natural inclination.

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11 minutes ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I've never thought of meditation, relaxation, and other such practices as being spiritual, and in fact I don't really see a reason why a materialist couldn't benefit from them, and have no conflict with doing so. I find them somewhat similar to Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and 'training' your mind and thoughts in a more positive direction, except that meditation is simply letting thoughts go and giving your brain a break, so to speak.

 

Where would the conflict arise with materialism, or do you think it does? I think these can totally be complementary, in spite of natural inclination.

 

The interconnection aspect has been a tough one for materialists. If it's a pantheistic minded practice, where you're tuning in to the whole and things like that, it has a woo woo off putting feeling towards most strict materialists. Listen to the universal mind meditation: 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tF14GnCJqk

 

The word god is used, but I understand this in a monist idealist pantheist framework. That's how I choose to take it in. Her source is U.S Anderson, a mystic. This is regarded as spiritual minded content. In the way the Advaita Vedanta is considered, "spiritual." I'm not shy about diving into stuff like this. It's part of my overall pantheistic philosophical outlook, which is a variety of spirituality. It just happens to gel with atheism where god belief is absent from the outlook. 

 

Stripping out the interconnection, monist idealist pantheism, and other spiritual factors, you're left with just meditation in and of itself. But quieting the mind is what these eastern mystics consider as part of a spiritual practice. Shutting down the chatter is aimed at getting down to the bare consciousness which in their thinking is primary, Brahman. The observer behind the stream of thoughts and all of that. So no matter how stripped down, I regard meditation as a spiritual practice just on account of trying to quiet the chatter and touch base with the observer behind the thoughts. And when people choose not to see that as spiritual, I have to wonder why? 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

 

The interconnection aspect has been a tough one for materialists. If it's a pantheistic minded practice, where you're tuning in to the whole and things like that, it has a woo woo off putting feeling towards most strict materialists. Listen to the universal mind meditation: 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tF14GnCJqk

 

The word god is used, but I understand this in a monist idealist pantheist framework. That's how I choose to take it in. Her source is U.S Anderson, a mystic. This is regarded as spiritual minded content. In the way the Advaita Vedanta is considered, "spiritual." I'm not shy about diving into stuff like this. It's part of my overall pantheistic philosophical outlook, which is a variety of spirituality. It just happens to gel with atheism where god belief is absent from the outlook. 

 

Stripping out the interconnection, monist idealist pantheism, and other spiritual factors, you're left with just meditation in and of itself. But quieting the mind is what these eastern mystics consider as part of a spiritual practice. Shutting down the chatter is aimed at getting down to the bare consciousness which in their thinking is primary, Brahman. The observer behind the stream of thoughts and all of that. So no matter how stripped down, I regard meditation as a spiritual practice just on account of trying to quiet the chatter and touch base with the observer behind the thoughts. And when people choose not to see that as spiritual, I have to wonder why? 

 

 

I've only practiced meditation a little, and what I do is just focused on breathing and quieting your thoughts. Call it getting down to bare consciousness, or whatever. I don't actually know much of anything about the history or context behind the practices at all, nor do I necessarily feel like I have to, so I suppose that's why I just don't associate it with spirituality necessarily. To me, it's just a stress buster, another tool for living life in a healthy way.

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3 hours ago, Joshpantera said:


We should keep in mind that materialism could be "bliss" for some people and if so, they ought to follow it. Hopefully they could find value in returning the favor and letting others do the same with spiritual thinking. 

 

Very true. We are all drawn to own version of bliss.

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On 10/28/2018 at 11:50 PM, TruthSeeker0 said:

I've only practiced meditation a little, and what I do is just focused on breathing and quieting your thoughts. Call it getting down to bare consciousness, or whatever. I don't actually know much of anything about the history or context behind the practices at all, nor do I necessarily feel like I have to, so I suppose that's why I just don't associate it with spirituality necessarily. To me, it's just a stress buster, another tool for living life in a healthy way.

 

It's amazing how good it can make you feel. I notice a big difference between doing it, and not doing it. The bare consciousness thing is supposed to be you seeing the observer behind the stream of thoughts, the raw consciousness, and not seeing your true self as the thoughts that are streaming by every day. Hindu's call that Brahman, a transcendent energy consciousness which is the true identity of everyone deep down inside, basically. The big spiritual realization is, "tat tvam asi," meaning, "you are that." You are the transcendent energy consciousness observing, you are the god. 

 

I don't think the raw consciousness IS the Hindu deity, so I'm atheistic about it. But I still recognize that the raw consciousness is a spiritual oriented thing. It's just a naturalistic, universe oriented spiritual thing in my view. And the Hindu deity is a metaphor as far as I'm concerned. 

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