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Geezer

Bomber arrested in Florida

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55 minutes ago, florduh said:

 

I'm not referencing soldiers carrying out immoral orders, most of them will do that. First, Hitler convinced the populace that the Jews were at the root of all Germany's problems. He portrayed them as enemies of the people and even dehumanized them, thus preparing the citizens to accept a physical attack on their "enemy."  Still don't see any problem with such things happening right here right now? No parallels at all?

I don't know why I continue to wade into political discussions particularly if they involve the US. From now on I'm going to know better. Rwanda and Germany seem to have taught no lessons or have no lessons to some. It's not a mind set I'll ever understand. 

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45 minutes ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I don't know why I continue to wade into political discussions particularly if they involve the US. From now on I'm going to know better. Rwanda and Germany seem to have taught no lessons or have no lessons to some. It's not a mind set I'll ever understand. 

I get the reluctance to engage in politics, I really do. These aren't normal times. Nationalism and authoritarianism is on the rise in many places. Perhaps people should have paid more attention to what was going on in Germany before they allowed a mad man to take over the country. It all started out as just hate speech, lies and misplaced blame coming from the leader. Nothing to worry about, right?

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56 minutes ago, florduh said:

I get the reluctance to engage in politics, I really do. These aren't normal times. Nationalism and authoritarianism is on the rise in many places. Perhaps people should have paid more attention to what was going on in Germany before they allowed a mad man to take over the country. It all started out as just hate speech, lies and misplaced blame coming from the leader. Nothing to worry about, right?

I don't want to sound arrogant here, but I studied history, and you can't help noticing similarities. Isn't it better rather than not to point them out? I would rather be the one who was pointing them out than the one who kept my mouth shut. I would rather talk and end up being in the wrong. There are more than a few historians today concerned with the general climate, not only in the US. 

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4 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

Ah, I've always suspected this is much of what lies at the core of differences between cultures and societies, because some you see, are more concerned with their citizens getting a fair chance at life to begin with. So don't blame me when I point fingers at America and say that a good deal of Americans subscribe to the philosophy that they owe nothing to nobody, including any form of assistance, because life just isn't fair and that's that. We don't all think that way thankfully, nor do a good many Americans, but it's what put in place on a policy level that counts. Which reminds me I'm still not finished that book called Fairness and Freedom, which compares US values/the system to others. I would recommend, it's a good read. I'm just glad I don't have such a cynical cold outlook, and you see I do gain a lot by giving to others. Not in material terms, but then again that's all that counts to some people. 

 

I think the picture you're painting is distored and you're painting with too broad of a brush. It's admittedly been awhile since I saw any statistics,  but as I remember Americans are some of the most generous people on the planet as far as charitable contributions go.

 

The Merhodist Church, my wife attends,  supports a wide range of programs designed to assist a wide range of people with a lot of different needs. The Methodist Church also has disaster Go Teams. Whenever a disaster strikes caravans of Semi Tractor trailers, from various locations, loaded within food, water, clothing, and tools are on the road within 24 hours along with volunteers to help those in need. 

 

I'm not a Christian, or a member of my wife's church, but I will say the Methodist actually do practice what they preach. They live out their teachings and I give them credit for that.

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Geezer said:

 

I think the picture you're painting is distored and you're painting with too broad of a brush. It's admittedly been awhile since I saw any statistics,  but as I remember Americans are some of the most generous people on the planet as far as charitable contributions go.

 

The Merhodist Church, my wife attends,  supports a wide range of programs designed to assist a wide range of people with a lot of different needs. The Methodist Church also has disaster Go Teams. Whenever a disaster strikes caravans of Semi Tractor trailers, from various locations, loaded within food, water, clothing, and tools are on the road within 24 hours along with volunteers to help those in need. 

 

I'm not a Christian, or a member of my wife's church, but I will say the Methodist actually do practice what they preach. They live out their teachings and I give them credit for that.

 

 

 

 

Then I'm wondering, why is there so much opposition to universal health care? Why do the Republicans go around warning people of the kind of health care "disaster" Canada has? Why is socialism such a dirty word? Why the opposition to adding a single dollar to any social security from so many people? 

 

Methodists are only a percentage of the population, I'm discussing the population as a whole. 

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1 hour ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

Then I'm wondering, why is there so much opposition to universal health care? Why do the Republicans go around warning people of the kind of health care "disaster" Canada has? Why is socialism such a dirty word? Why the opposition to adding a single dollar to any social security from so many people? 

 

Methodists are only a percentage of the population, I'm discussing the population as a whole. 

Political indoctrination is as powerful as religious indoctrination. Economic theories actually are religion for some. To gain and maintain political power a group must create an enemy, a boogeyman, and then offer themselves as the only solution to this evil. Their propaganda is strong and relentless. Any deviation from it is cause for suspicion from the keepers of all that is right and good. History, facts, statistics and experience hold no sway against the tenets of the religion. And, lots of Americans are under educated if not outright stupid and proud of it. Trump knew how to pitch his act to that segment of society. Does that answer the question?

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2 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

Then I'm wondering, why is there so much opposition to universal health care? Why do the Republicans go around warning people of the kind of health care "disaster" Canada has? Why is socialism such a dirty word? Why the opposition to adding a single dollar to any social security from so many people? 

One practical constraint to increased spending is the astronomical US debt.

Close to $20 trillion dollars and growing with no government, so far, being able to get that under control. We had the scare where the debt ceiling was hit and the government was at risk of defaulting. They didn't fix the problem, just raised the debt ceiling and continued spending as before. 

Universal health care or universal basic income would cost trillions, money the US doesn't have. 

Its like a junkie with a powdered money addiction. You either get that addiction under control, run out of money and go through painful withdrawal symptoms or end up as China's whore. 

It's not just America's problem, if the US economy crashes it will take the global markets with it. 

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32 minutes ago, Wertbag said:

One practical constraint to increased spending is the astronomical US debt.

Close to $20 trillion dollars and growing with no government, so far, being able to get that under control. We had the scare where the debt ceiling was hit and the government was at risk of defaulting. They didn't fix the problem, just raised the debt ceiling and continued spending as before. 

Universal health care or universal basic income would cost trillions, money the US doesn't have. 

Its like a junkie with a powdered money addiction. You either get that addiction under control, run out of money and go through painful withdrawal symptoms or end up as China's whore. 

It's not just America's problem, if the US economy crashes it will take the global markets with it

There is plenty of money for huge tax cuts for billionaires. Money for the bloated military. Money to incarcerate its citizens at the highest rate in the world. Universal healthcare works well in every other developed country, why not here? "We can't afford it" is not a reasonable answer. It would actually give us cheaper healthcare if you look at the numbers. 

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3 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

Then I'm wondering, why is there so much opposition to universal health care? Why do the Republicans go around warning people of the kind of health care "disaster" Canada has? Why is socialism such a dirty word? Why the opposition to adding a single dollar to any social security from so many people? 

 

Methodists are only a percentage of the population, I'm discussing the population as a whole. 

 

I'm a strong advocate for National Health "Care", but not National Health "Insurance". Obama Care is a total disaster and I fear anything Congress comes up with to replace it will be equally as bad. Any plan Congress comes up with will be politicized. There will be back door payoffs and deals made in secret, just to get something through and approved. 

 

Medicare and Medicade are actually good programs & that's why I favor leaving them just as they are and making them available to the general population. There is no need or reason to do away with private policies or group policies. National Health Care can be made available to those that chose it. This will be enormously expensive and I think the only thing that will raise sufficient dollars to pay for this is a National Sales or Consumption tax that everyone must pay, no exceptions. 

 

Individual cost & deductibles that exist in the present Medicare and Medicade plans will continue as well as the current private policies that pick up the co-insurance & deductibles just as they do now.

 

I realize there will be cries that a National Sales Tax is unfair.  To that I say, do you want access to quality health care or do you want "fairness" whatever that even means. No changes need to be made in the present coverages & cost available with Medicare and Medicade. They have a proven track record of success. Doctors and Hospitals would be required to accept Medicare and Medicade.

 

I do not trust Congress to come up with something better than we have now. In fact, I don't think that is even possible.

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40 minutes ago, Geezer said:

Medicare and Medicade are actually good programs & that's why I favor leaving them just as they are and making them available to the general population. There is no need or reason to do away with private policies or group policies.

This is exactly what everybody is talking about. Medicare for all - sound familiar? Obviously, something had to be done but Obamacare had problems and the Republicans could only come up with something even worse. Their ideas were so unpopular they have done a 180 on preexisting conditions as if they actually invented the idea rather than fought against it tooth and nail. Clearly, healthcare for profit is no longer a workable solution.

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46 minutes ago, florduh said:

This is exactly what everybody is talking about. Medicare for all - sound familiar? Obviously, something had to be done but Obamacare had problems and the Republicans could only come up with something even worse. Their ideas were so unpopular they have done a 180 on preexisting conditions as if they actually invented the idea rather than fought against it tooth and nail. Clearly, healthcare for profit is no longer a workable solution.

 

I agree healthcare for profit is not a workable option. Private companies would quickly go bankrupt if they were forced to accept pre existing conditions. 

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4 hours ago, florduh said:

Political indoctrination is as powerful as religious indoctrination. Economic theories actually are religion for some.

 

The same churchy people who give money to support the church group or send money to help a child in a third world country will complain that evil universal health care will cause their taxes to go up and bitch about welfare too.  These conflicting ideas apparently do not cause cognitive dissonance. :)

 

 

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1 hour ago, midniterider said:

 

The same churchy people who give money to support the church group or send money to help a child in a third world country will complain that evil universal health care will cause their taxes to go up and bitch about welfare too.  These conflicting ideas apparently do not cause cognitive dissonance. :)

 

 

Exactly. Support a child in a third world country, particularly when it's done through your church? Checkmark. Support universal health care so that people don't need to go into debt to stay alive? Forget it. 

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5 hours ago, florduh said:

Political indoctrination is as powerful as religious indoctrination. Economic theories actually are religion for some. To gain and maintain political power a group must create an enemy, a boogeyman, and then offer themselves as the only solution to this evil. Their propaganda is strong and relentless. Any deviation from it is cause for suspicion from the keepers of all that is right and good. History, facts, statistics and experience hold no sway against the tenets of the religion. And, lots of Americans are under educated if not outright stupid and proud of it. Trump knew how to pitch his act to that segment of society. Does that answer the question?

What actually hurts to look at, is the undereducated, and proud of it part. But I suppose maybe a good education is contrary to the designs of politicians who depend on duping the masses. Jeez, I couldn't even look at his rallies before he was elected without wincing. And nothing has changed. 

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4 hours ago, florduh said:

There is plenty of money for huge tax cuts for billionaires. Money for the bloated military. Money to incarcerate its citizens at the highest rate in the world. Universal healthcare works well in every other developed country, why not here? "We can't afford it" is not a reasonable answer. It would actually give us cheaper healthcare if you look at the numbers. 

What I should have said is just giving everyone insurance so you gain 100% coverage on your current healthcare system would be a financial disaster.  Overhauling the system so that it is publicly run so money isn't lost to insurance company profits would be a good step however I can't see this change ever happening.  The political structure is designed to resist change, doesn't matter how good the idea is, it will be blocked by the system.

 

When you are losing money hand over fist you need to look at either increasing income or reducing spending.  Taking a bad system and extending it to more people will make things worse.

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6 hours ago, Wertbag said:

One practical constraint to increased spending is the astronomical US debt.

Close to $20 trillion dollars and growing with no government, so far, being able to get that under control. We had the scare where the debt ceiling was hit and the government was at risk of defaulting. They didn't fix the problem, just raised the debt ceiling and continued spending as before. 

Universal health care or universal basic income would cost trillions, money the US doesn't have. 

Its like a junkie with a powdered money addiction. You either get that addiction under control, run out of money and go through painful withdrawal symptoms or end up as China's whore. 

It's not just America's problem, if the US economy crashes it will take the global markets with it. 

images.jpeg

 

I'm more apt to think it's political indoctrination, as stated by @florduh. Once you have the masses indoctrinated and they operate on nothing but blind partisanship, you can convince them the Jesus spaceship is going to land tomorrow and they're all gonna ride off into the sunset on it.

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1 hour ago, Wertbag said:

What I should have said is just giving everyone insurance so you gain 100% coverage on your current healthcare system would be a financial disaster.  Overhauling the system so that it is publicly run so money isn't lost to insurance company profits would be a good step however I can't see this change ever happening.  The political structure is designed to resist change, doesn't matter how good the idea is, it will be blocked by the system.

 

And that in a nutshell is the problem with your political system. If it can resist the will of the majority of the people on any topic, you're not living in any kind of democracy. 

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1 hour ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

And that in a nutshell is the problem with your political system. If it can resist the will of the majority of the people on any topic, you're not living in any kind of democracy. 

True, the Western world is all about the representative democracy, which basically means no power to the people.  We don't vote on who the best person for the job is, only on who between the couple of choices given to us.  Most people when asked who they would like to see as leader will pick someone intelligent, caring, experienced and who matches their ideology, almost never a politician.

 

We also never vote on important issues or have any say in the law.  Imagine binding referendums on legalising pot, abortion, euthanasia, capital punishment, gun control, smoking and whatever the big topics of the day are.  A system where the will of the people is heard.  That could be a great thing (or a complete disaster if the people on mass make bad choices, and as recent history shows that is unfortunately true).

 

What we really need is a technocracy, a governmental system that promotes people based on talent, intelligent and skills, but I can't imagine any country changing from their traditional system to something better.

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1 hour ago, Wertbag said:

True, the Western world is all about the representative democracy, which basically means no power to the people.  We don't vote on who the best person for the job is, only on who between the couple of choices given to us.  Most people when asked who they would like to see as leader will pick someone intelligent, caring, experienced and who matches their ideology, almost never a politician.

 

We also never vote on important issues or have any say in the law.  Imagine binding referendums on legalising pot, abortion, euthanasia, capital punishment, gun control, smoking and whatever the big topics of the day are.  A system where the will of the people is heard.  That could be a great thing (or a complete disaster if the people on mass make bad choices, and as recent history shows that is unfortunately true).

 

What we really need is a technocracy, a governmental system that promotes people based on talent, intelligent and skills, but I can't imagine any country changing from their traditional system to something better.

The US doesn't have proportional representation in any true sense of the word, nor does Canada. It's more popular in Europe where political parties have to form coalition governments, where politicians must *ahem*, actually work together on some level instead of maintaining a constant shit slinging contest with each other. 

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