god speaks...or does he.

[PurpleLilac]

That was the huge crack in the wall for me. Sitting in the therapists office spilling my story about a narcissist father who was always hearing god for my life. And I realized that the bible is mostly men hearing from god who then tell people to go do stuff or stop doing stuff. 

The next big ah ha moment was when my oldest child tried to tell me she heard from god about a minor decision that needed to be made. I jolted back in my chair and barked at her to not say that to me. Took a deep breath and explained that if god told her something it was for *her* and not me. And again...I realized my words were in total contrast to most of scripture. I got on YouTube,fairly convinced whatever I found wasn’t going to stand up to thirty years of my religion and four year degree in bible college. I was wrong. It fell like a house of cards,the damn broke and I couldn’t take back what I had learned. The most important fact to me was finding out when the gospels were written in relation to the books supposedly written by Paul. I watched documentaries,Dawkins,Richard Carrier. Part of me felt like I was experiencing a death of someone I knew for my whole life. Part of me was so relived that hell isn’t real,that satan and demons aren’t real. That conditional love is damaging and destructive and wrong. I threw it all in the trash and started listening to “secular” music for the first time in my life. What was amazing to me at first was how god didn’t send me dreams or people or anything to woo me back. I realized that wasn’t going to happen. It’s only been six months since all this happened,so I still wonder about a lot of things. But I am So Much Happier now. I can be me and find out who that is and has been all this time. 

 

[midniterider]

It would appear that Jesus doesn't make people all that happy.

 

 

[NeverHealed52Years]

I was all-in 100% into Pentacostalism where we all are told that God Speaks, Jesus Speaks, Holy Spirit Speaks, Angels can sometimes show up and speak to us (I was totally confused the whole time which one I was supposed to pray to, which one did what function and how to tell which one was speaking!!!!! Crazy Nutcase Religion). They are there to guide us EVERY step of the way and to keep us from harm of any kind!

 

As soon as I started seriously questioning everything the voices stopped.

Soooo the voices were who or what? My own mind? Other spiritual entities (Devil, Satan, Evil Spirits, The Great Spirit, the Creator of the Universe, aliens, other spirits???) Who knows. I may never know who or what it was/is.

 

I observed every time  that the "Still Small Voice" of God (the can barely hear him rubbish they taught) would NEVER speak up,  clearly, loud, intense and persistent enough to be heard, during times of stress, the really life/health threateneing decision times when my decision was very important and even critical; times of danger, scary things, harmful to physical health or safety times. The VERY time I needed help the most to steer me clear of anything life changing, permanently damaging,  negative.

 

Seems to me that a loving, compassionate, heavenly father would be there when the going got tuff. After this happening a gazillion  times it started the beginning of the end of my belief in a loving God, Jesus, Holy Spirit.  Sheesh why did they have three entities for us to try to deal with, communicate with, understand? Good god ONE is sufficient!!!  The fact that they need to have three should be enough to cause people to say WTF?

 

OK, rant over,. Just had to get that vented out instead of keeping it inside stewing!

[TruthSeeker0]

On 11/4/2018 at 2:14 PM, PurpleLilac said:

That was the huge crack in the wall for me. Sitting in the therapists office spilling my story about a narcissist father who was always hearing god for my life. And I realized that the bible is mostly men hearing from god who then tell people to go do stuff or stop doing stuff. 

Yep yep and yep...when I finally started reading the bible, it all came crashing down for me. My first reaction was largely, fuck it with this book written by men, about men abusing women etc.

On 11/4/2018 at 2:14 PM, PurpleLilac said:

The next big ah ha moment was when my oldest child tried to tell me she heard from god about a minor decision that needed to be made. I jolted back in my chair and barked at her to not say that to me. Took a deep breath and explained that if god told her something it was for *her* and not me. And again...I realized my words were in total contrast to most of scripture. I got on YouTube,fairly convinced whatever I found wasn’t going to stand up to thirty years of my religion and four year degree in bible college. I was wrong. It fell like a house of cards,the damn broke and I couldn’t take back what I had learned. The most important fact to me was finding out when the gospels were written in relation to the books supposedly written by Paul. I watched documentaries,Dawkins,Richard Carrier. Part of me felt like I was experiencing a death of someone I knew for my whole life. Part of me was so relived that hell isn’t real,that satan and demons aren’t real. That conditional love is damaging and destructive and wrong. I threw it all in the trash and started listening to “secular” music for the first time in my life. What was amazing to me at first was how god didn’t send me dreams or people or anything to woo me back. I realized that wasn’t going to happen. It’s only been six months since all this happened,so I still wonder about a lot of things. But I am So Much Happier now. I can be me and find out who that is and has been all this time. 

 

Your story is pretty similar. I had a lot of build up of cognitive dissonance but wasn't really aware of just how precarious the foundation of my beliefs was. So when it was pulled out, it was almost like an overnight transformation. It also sounds like you haven't had too much trouble taking in the truth or reality of the situation, ie hell hasn't continued to have any grip over you. I know a lot of people continue to struggle with this, so I'm just relieved it isn't me.

I have plenty of dreams though, and some of them still revolve around my life and people I knew in the church, and I'm always extremely annoyed with them, but never would I mistake them as any sort of messages.

[PurpleLilac]

My brother has helped me a lot. He came out 11 hrs ago as both gay and atheist so he has wandered this path for a lot longer than I. 

The thing I struggle with the most is the realization that I can’t pray my family into health or safety on the roads etc. I can do my best to keep my children safe and hope my husband drives safety to work. Fate has a hand in my life now. 

 

[◊ DestinyTurtle ◊]

On 11/4/2018 at 11:14 AM, PurpleLilac said:

Part of me was so relived that hell isn’t real,that satan and demons aren’t real.

And thank goodness for that! It took me a long time to really feel it even after I cognitively understood that hell isn't real.

[Lerk]

On 11/4/2018 at 1:14 PM, PurpleLilac said:

That was the huge crack in the wall for me. Sitting in the therapists office spilling my story about a narcissist father who was always hearing god for my life. And I realized that the bible is mostly men hearing from god who then tell people to go do stuff or stop doing stuff. 

The next big ah ha moment was when my oldest child tried to tell me she heard from god about a minor decision that needed to be made. I jolted back in my chair and barked at her to not say that to me. Took a deep breath and explained that if god told her something it was for *her* and not me. And again...I realized my words were in total contrast to most of scripture. I got on YouTube,fairly convinced whatever I found wasn’t going to stand up to thirty years of my religion and four year degree in bible college. I was wrong.

 

 

That’s an amazing story, PurpleLilac! My wife keeps thinking that she can somehow find something that’ll make me think maybe I’m wrong about there not being any such things as gods, and that Jehovah, in particular, isn’t real. But you can’t “un-know” things! Once you realize even a few things, you can never believe the Bible is anything more than updated mythology. (The fact that “The Song of Moses” in Deuteronomy makes it clear that “The LORD” received Israel as an inheritance from his father, “the Most High God,” means there’s no going back for me.) Learning that wasn’t my personal “a-ha” moment, but it’s the most convincing evidence from the book itself that this is all mythology.

 

My denomination taught that the god quit talking to us once the Bible was finished, so we never believed anyone who said the god spoke to them. I guess I’m lucky to have never had that baggage.

 

What brand of Christian were you? 4-year degree! I’m interested in hearing more of your story. (Also, I’m a liberal Texan, as well... saw your comments in another post.)

 

Welcome aboard!

[PurpleLilac]

2 hours ago, Lerk said:

 

That’s an amazing story, PurpleLilac! My wife keeps thinking that she can somehow find something that’ll make me think maybe I’m wrong about there not being any such things as gods, and that Jehovah, in particular, isn’t real. But you can’t “un-know” things! Once you realize even a few things, you can never believe the Bible is anything more than updated mythology. (The fact that “The Song of Moses” in Deuteronomy makes it clear that “The LORD” received Israel as an inheritance from his father, “the Most High God,” means there’s no going back for me.) Learning that wasn’t my personal “a-ha” moment, but it’s the most convincing evidence from the book itself that this is all mythology.

 

My denomination taught that the god quit talking to us once the Bible was finished, so we never believed anyone who said the god spoke to them. I guess I’m lucky to have never had that baggage.

 

What brand of Christian were you? 4-year degree! I’m interested in hearing more of your story. (Also, I’m a liberal Texan, as well... saw your comments in another post.)

 

Welcome aboard!

Hi and thank you for the welcome. I’m curious what you mean by The song of Moses and I’ll be looking that up sometime after we get up the Christmas tree,lol. 

I was raised in a little cage of fundie Pentecostalism. In my teens,we left crazy cult land and went to an Aasemblies of God Church. Since it was more normal than anything else I had experienced,I figured we were mainline Protestants at that point. People falling over and yelling and prophesying rattled me occasionally but it was just my world. Listening for Gods voice on just about everything (what school to attend,what car to buy,how to put together a tricky bookshelf) was daily and I do mean daily drilled into my head. I went to an A/G college. My husband and I go to a tamer evangelical church now. I go because I love him and our children,but my goal is to get them at least to a more progressive church every so often. Not because I believe any of it,but if they are going to choose Christianity for themselves, I’m hoping they choose the more liberal stripe. 

[Margee]

On 11/11/2018 at 8:03 PM, PurpleLilac said:

 

The thing I struggle with the most is the realization that I can’t pray my family into health or safety on the roads etc. I can do my best to keep my children safe and hope my husband drives safety to work. Fate has a hand in my life now. 

 

1

 

PL, I think this was the hardest issue for me also. I was in and out of Pentecostalism for 30 years so it's a hit in the gut when you realize that you and your loved one's survival depends on the luck of the draw. I am terrified of flying  (and many other things because I suffer from anxiety) and the one thing that used to console me was to pray the whole flight away.......even though I knew that planes went down with christians on board. But I guess I must have felt special that god would protect me somehow.  I have to drug myself to take a flight now. lol  When my sister died many years ago, I had a whole entire town doing the 'chain' prayer. Didn't work. She still died. So now, I have had to teach myself about the reality of life and it hasn't been easy for me cause I am such a worry wort. I  have to 'let go' of all my loved ones now and hope that they are practicing their survival skills to the best of their ability when out on the highways, etc.  Somedays are easier than others but it's getting better over time. Keeping busy doing lots of things helps me a lot. Have some fun, honey. Do lots of fun things.  ''The only breathe that you can be assured of is the one you are breathing right now'' so go have fun!

 

Big (hug) cause I know it's not easy.

[TruthSeeker0]

2 hours ago, Margee said:

 

PL, I think this was the hardest issue for me also. I was in and out of Pentecostalism for 30 years so it's a hit in the gut when you realize that you and your loved one's survival depends on the luck of the draw. I am terrified of flying  (and many other things because I suffer from anxiety) and the one thing that used to console me was to pray the whole flight away.......even though I knew that planes went down with christians on board. But I guess I must have felt special that god would protect me somehow.  I have to drug myself to take a flight now. lol  When my sister died many years ago, I had a whole entire town doing the 'chain' prayer. Didn't work. She still died. So now, I have had to teach myself about the reality of life and it hasn't been easy for me cause I am such a worry wort. I  have to 'let go' of all my loved ones now and hope that they are practicing their survival skills to the best of their ability when out on the highways, etc.  Somedays are easier than others but it's getting better over time. Keeping busy doing lots of things helps me a lot. Have some fun, honey. Do lots of fun things.  ''The only breathe that you can be assured of is the one you are breathing right now'' so go have fun!

 

Big (hug) cause I know it's not easy.

I had a lot of anxiety due to this reason as well, for awhile. But I went through my deconversion right after I went through a major health crisis that made me face my own mortality. Now, I think it's somewhat easier for me to accept that my life may end whenever due to whatever reason, rather than it being in the control of some deity. I think it's easier now because I went through a really shitty time, and at the time I believed it was all god's will....and I came to resent him for what was going on in my life. It's much easier to accept that terrible things happen to good people.

The other outcome of my deconversion is that I'm not willing to sit here and let life go where it will anymore. I'm much more focused on seizing the day so to speak, because I had better go after what I want, nobody else is going to do anything for me.

[Margee]

1 hour ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I'm much more focused on seizing the day so to speak, because I had better go after what I want, nobody else is going to do anything for me.

1

  Right on TS! Good for you!  I needed to hear this tonight! And these posts will help PurpleLilac to know she is not alone.

 

My fears pretty much immobilized me for the past few years. I never talk about this on Ex-c cause I'm a moderator, right? Aren't I supposed to have all my shit together after 9 years on this board?  Lol The hell with that anymore. I need you guys as much as you need me. Still to this day.

 

My excursions outside of my house are mostly in a 5-mile range. 1.doing errands, 2. going to the campground in the summer and 3. maybe a trip once a year where I drug myself to get on an airplane. I pretty much became damn agoraphobic. Now I am fighting back. I am always trying to protect my death now and it has stopped me from living a full life. And I am older now so I worry about it even more. I actually went to a crowded dance hall 2 weeks ago and had a relatively good time. Only once did the thought that some maniac was there and was going to pull out a gun and have a shooting rampage in our own city. (See, I always thought that god would protect me from this kind of stuff??) I had to leave and walk outside for a minute to gather my thoughts.  I decided that if that were to happen, I would die happy dancing out in my city again! I am going to do this. I'm gonna fight my fears. I only gotta die once, right?

 

This is where I always tell people that deconversion can take a while for some of us. It's not as simple as saying we just don't believe christinity is true. It goes waaaaaay past that for some of us. Everything changed for me when I stopped believing. And I am still working on this brainwashing that I got indoctrinated with 40 years ago.

 

So I always understand people like you and many more of us on this site with these same fears of, ''what now?'' when we stop believing.

 

Big (hugs) to all of you.

[PurpleLilac]

My “what now” these past few months have been Listening to Music (other than christian) and dancing around my house with my children. They see me throw my head back and laugh a lot more. I picked out a cleavage baring bathing suit and felt amazing at the pool. We went trick or treating as a family for the first time! I watched a Harry Potter movie! I can choose my profession because I’m not straining to hear a still,small voice from let’s face it,my own damn head. My husband got into a car accident and we have to replace his car and after the initial heart-pounding minutes of anxiety,I sat and took deep breaths in and out with my eyes closed. I didn’t wring my hands and pace the floor and cling to my husband that night and beg him to pray with me “because God listens when we pray together as husband and wife.” Hell,No. We calmly discussed our options and made our choice. We are strong,competent adults and we can do this shit! Moderators,newbies,all of us. We’re much stronger than we think. 

[PurpleLilac]

Okay, @Lerk I looked online for “atheist” and “song of Moses” but I don’t see your aha moment. Can you post a link,please?

[Lerk]

9 hours ago, PurpleLilac said:

Hi and thank you for the welcome. I’m curious what you mean by The song of Moses and I’ll be looking that up sometime after we get up the Christmas tree,lol. 

I was raised in a little cage of fundie Pentecostalism. In my teens,we left crazy cult land and went to an Aasemblies of God Church. Since it was more normal than anything else I had experienced,I figured we were mainline Protestants at that point. People falling over and yelling and prophesying rattled me occasionally but it was just my world. Listening for Gods voice on just about everything (what school to attend,what car to buy,how to put together a tricky bookshelf) was daily and I do mean daily drilled into my head. I went to an A/G college. My husband and I go to a tamer evangelical church now. I go because I love him and our children,but my goal is to get them at least to a more progressive church every so often. Not because I believe any of it,but if they are going to choose Christianity for themselves, I’m hoping they choose the more liberal stripe. 

 

36 minutes ago, PurpleLilac said:

Okay, @Lerk I looked online for “atheist” and “song of Moses” but I don’t see your aha moment. Can you post a link,please?

 

Read Numbers 32 in the English Standard Version. Most translations use the Masoretic Hebrew text for their source here, which was made the official Hebrew text sometime in the 3rd to 5th centuries AD. The ESV reverts to the Septuagint Greek text for this passage because the Dead Sea Scrolls (way older than the Masoretic!) back it up.

 

In that passage, Moses is explaining to the Children of Israel how the LORD came to be their god. The Masoretic text obfuscates this, saying that the Most High fixed the borders of the nations according to the number of the “sons of Israel” (verse 8). But the original says “the sons of God.” Then in verse 9 it says “but the Lord’s portion is his people; Jacob is the allotment of his inheritance.”

 

”The LORD” is “Adonai.” Originallly this would have been YHWH (i.e. Jehovah). But the “Most High” in verse 8 is Elyon (“God Most High.” YHWH is Elyon’s son!

 

Remember in Genesis where it says “God said ‘let us make man in our image’ and Christians say “hey, ‘us’ means the Trinity!” Well, nope. “Us” is Elyon and his sons, the same sons who in Genesis 6 came to Earth and married human women, producing a race of giants called the Nephalim. Elyon was really angry at them!

 

And people just don’t know this stuff is in the Bible! Preachers talk around it. “This is a difficult passage” they’ll say before skipping over it.

 

The Bible is so much more interesting now that I don’t try to impose the New Testament onto the Old!

 

My personal “a-ha” moment (I call it a “wait... what?” moment) was sitting in church reading Genesis 3 and realizing that it wasn’t Satan, but an ordinary snake.

[JenniferG]

On 11/23/2018 at 1:27 PM, Margee said:

 

PL, I think this was the hardest issue for me also. I was in and out of Pentecostalism for 30 years so it's a hit in the gut when you realize that you and your loved one's survival depends on the luck of the draw. I am terrified of flying  (and many other things because I suffer from anxiety) and the one thing that used to console me was to pray the whole flight away.......even though I knew that planes went down with christians on board. But I guess I must have felt special that god would protect me somehow.  I have to drug myself to take a flight now. lol  When my sister died many years ago, I had a whole entire town doing the 'chain' prayer. Didn't work. She still died. So now, I have had to teach myself about the reality of life and it hasn't been easy for me cause I am such a worry wort. I  have to 'let go' of all my loved ones now and hope that they are practicing their survival skills to the best of their ability when out on the highways, etc.  Somedays are easier than others but it's getting better over time. Keeping busy doing lots of things helps me a lot. Have some fun, honey. Do lots of fun things.  ''The only breathe that you can be assured of is the one you are breathing right now'' so go have fun!

 

Big (hug) cause I know it's not easy.

Prayer is only wishful thinking anyway. I still wish my loved ones and myself well, but only I don't call it prayer.

[JenniferG]

On 11/23/2018 at 4:58 PM, Margee said:

  Right on TS! Good for you!  I needed to hear this tonight! And these posts will help PurpleLilac to know she is not alone.

 

My fears pretty much immobilized me for the past few years. I never talk about this on Ex-c cause I'm a moderator, right? Aren't I supposed to have all my shit together after 9 years on this board?  Lol The hell with that anymore. I need you guys as much as you need me. Still to this day.

 

My excursions outside of my house are mostly in a 5-mile range. 1.doing errands, 2. going to the campground in the summer and 3. maybe a trip once a year where I drug myself to get on an airplane. I pretty much became damn agoraphobic. Now I am fighting back. I am always trying to protect my death now and it has stopped me from living a full life. And I am older now so I worry about it even more. I actually went to a crowded dance hall 2 weeks ago and had a relatively good time. Only once did the thought that some maniac was there and was going to pull out a gun and have a shooting rampage in our own city. (See, I always thought that god would protect me from this kind of stuff??) I had to leave and walk outside for a minute to gather my thoughts.  I decided that if that were to happen, I would die happy dancing out in my city again! I am going to do this. I'm gonna fight my fears. I only gotta die once, right?

 

This is where I always tell people that deconversion can take a while for some of us. It's not as simple as saying we just don't believe christinity is true. It goes waaaaaay past that for some of us. Everything changed for me when I stopped believing. And I am still working on this brainwashing that I got indoctrinated with 40 years ago.

 

So I always understand people like you and many more of us on this site with these same fears of, ''what now?'' when we stop believing.

 

Big (hugs) to all of you.

You can still believe, but this time believe in yourself!

 

[Questioningone]

For me it was a lot of unanswered questions I pushed at the back of my brain and what you wrote about ... same for me. I just then suddenly was like “this is it” and overnight I was no longer a Christian. I still think about god daily..fear he’ll and have guilt and stuff but feel such a weight off my shoulders now. It’s a load of bull. Nothing is consistent or matches up in the bible. I don’t believe god is loving or makes one happy at all. Didn’t make me happy. 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

On 11/4/2018 at 2:14 PM, PurpleLilac said:

That was the huge crack in the wall for me. Sitting in the therapists office spilling my story about a narcissist father who was always hearing god for my life. And I realized that the bible is mostly men hearing from god who then tell people to go do stuff or stop doing stuff. 

The next big ah ha moment was when my oldest child tried to tell me she heard from god about a minor decision that needed to be made. I jolted back in my chair and barked at her to not say that to me. Took a deep breath and explained that if god told her something it was for *her* and not me. And again...I realized my words were in total contrast to most of scripture. I got on YouTube,fairly convinced whatever I found wasn’t going to stand up to thirty years of my religion and four year degree in bible college. I was wrong. It fell like a house of cards,the damn broke and I couldn’t take back what I had learned. The most important fact to me was finding out when the gospels were written in relation to the books supposedly written by Paul. I watched documentaries,Dawkins,Richard Carrier. Part of me felt like I was experiencing a death of someone I knew for my whole life. Part of me was so relived that hell isn’t real,that satan and demons aren’t real. That conditional love is damaging and destructive and wrong. I threw it all in the trash and started listening to “secular” music for the first time in my life. What was amazing to me at first was how god didn’t send me dreams or people or anything to woo me back. I realized that wasn’t going to happen. It’s only been six months since all this happened,so I still wonder about a lot of things. But I am So Much Happier now. I can be me and find out who that is and has been all this time. 

 

 

Wow I love your testimony. Straight to the point and so true. As someone with a bachelors degree from a bible college I’m sure you will be(and have been) doing a lot of fact checking on everything you learned in college. 

      I would love to see another post with some of your findings from your research. I was amazed to find out that the Pentateuch had been written by 4 different authorities in separate times. Mostly reflecting the beliefs of whatever king was in charge at the time. 

 

DB

[mrspearl]

PurpleLilac, your church history sounds similar to mine.  What college did you attend?  I didn’t make it college, but my siblings and my daughter attended Southwestern Assembly of God in Waxahachie.  I did go one semester to Christ for the Nations in Dallas.  That one was way out there!

[PurpleLilac]

On 2/6/2019 at 8:28 AM, mrspearl said:

PurpleLilac, your church history sounds similar to mine.  What college did you attend?  I didn’t make it college, but my siblings and my daughter attended Southwestern Assembly of God in Waxahachie.  I did go one semester to Christ for the Nations in Dallas.  That one was way out there!

It was an A/G college as well,yup, 

Still paying it off. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

3 hours ago, PurpleLilac said:

It was an A/G college as well,yup, 

Still paying it off. 

It wasn't, by any chance, a University in the Southeastern region of the country, was it?

[PurpleLilac]

18 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

It wasn't, by any chance, a University in the Southeastern region of the country, was it?

Nope

[TheRedneckProfessor]

14 minutes ago, PurpleLilac said:

Nope

Because that's the one I went to.