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Goodbye Jesus

Depressed


LeKopo

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My relationship with God seems is no more, as I gradually slipped away from him and decided to go my own way in life, and I'm currently enduring the pain of ending that relationship. It's been about a month now. Literally the feeling of a breakup. Except it was true love and with something you can't see and tough. I think about when I was a Christian, places I'd go, church, reading the Bible and thinking about how happy and spiritual I was with God and the conviction of "truth."  But now it seems I'm back to life's old issues, being dictated by what people think of me. I'm back to my 5 normal senses which are back to being very vivid, pain feels like pain again, and the physical gratification has returned.

I don't find enjoyment anymore. Coming down from being a true Christian is a tough one. I keep thinking well if I'm going to die then what's the point. Nothing seems to be fulfilling anymore after my Christian spiritual experience. I feel sad and guilty for breaking up with God and loving other things. I'm hollow and empty.

I don't know if I'm alone but I certainly know that you guys could understand how unsettling this is. Is there any advice anyone could offer for me getting over this fear of hell/judgement and the emotional pain of ending love with that unseen force who you prayed to everyday?

 

 

 

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Wow.  That's not an easy one to answer.  I guess I was a little bit different in that I don't feel I "ended love" with anyone.  For me god just wasn't ever there, so it seemed there was no "relationship" to end.  However, it wasn't by any means easy to leave.  It was "hell," as a matter of fact.  The whole basis for my life was gone.  Even if my religious beliefs didn't amount to anything real, to end them left me with just nothing.  Having nothing as the basis of your life rather sucks.  A Christian friend asked me one day a while after I had left, "Are you any happier?"  I don't remember how I responded, but if I was truthful I said, "No.  I'm less happy."  Before I had had direction and purpose in life, and now I had nothing.  Not only that, but I was all alone in the world.  When you belong to a church or Christian group of some sort you have a "ready-made" community.  You don't have to worry about being all on your own for the weekend.  You have friends, people to do things with, people to talk with, people to support you.  When you leave it all you have to start all over and try to build something from scratch.  It's not easy, and I can't say that I have done very well at it, but I know I can't go back to trying to believe in what is obviously a bunch of superstition.  I don't believe in what makes me happy; I believe in what is true.

 

The fear of hell is a strong emotion.  Once it is engrained into you it is hard to get away from it.  I wish I had  a secret "pill" that would do the job, but I think most would agree with me that it can take years to get over that fear.  No matter what our rational minds might tell us, once it is engrained into us it is difficult to get over it.  I can only say to read and talk to people who take a rational approach, and over time you will get there. I would point out one or two things in regards to the concept of hell.  If you read the Bible you find that, although the word "hell" is used in the Old Testament (at least, in the old King James version), nowhere does it say anything about a place of eternal torture in a lake of fire.  There is no lake of fire until you get to the New Testament.  If there is such a horrible place to be avoided wouldn't god have told all the people that lived back before Jesus' times?  Why would he withhold that information from his "chosen people"? And, of course, there is the old argument that how can a loving god send someone to be tortured forever?  It may be an old question, but still valid.  Or perhaps more pointedly, how can god send me to suffer forever in a lake of fire for not believing in him when he refuses to even let me know that he exists?  If I were god and had even the slightest bit of love in me I wouldn't hide up in heaven and expect some old book that was written under questionable circumstance and adopted under even more questionable circumstances to save people.  I would want to make sure that they at least knew firsthand about me.  I just cannot conceive (now that I have been away from religion for years) that a god could act that way.  I mean, he just couldn't unless he was the very essence of evil and hatred.  You wouldn't act that way, would you?  Are you better than god (i.e. the concept of god that you have held)? 

 

So there are a couple of thoughts about this concept of hell that I hope will help alleviate your fears to some degree, but I'm sure it will still take a while before you can feel that you are rid of those fears.  The idea of hell is ridiculous, but that doesn't necessarily alleviate all our fears.  I have sometimes wished I could be "Spok" and not be pestered by unfounded emotions, but that is not reality.  Hang in there though, and you will get there. 

 

Yes, you will feel hollow and empty for a while.  I know I did. But don't feel "guilty" for "breaking up with" god.  He "broke up with" you first, that is, he wasn't there.  If he is going to just leave you high and dry then don't feel guilty. (I write this as if he existed, which, of course, he doesn't.) Don't blame yourself.  Put the blame where it belongs, on those who convinced you to believe in a magical being, using the unfounded and ridiculous threat of eternal torture to get or hold you there.  You can't blame god, because he doesn't exist, but you can blame religion.  That is where the blame lies, not in you.

 

Wish I had more to offer to be helpful, but I wish you the best of luck in your new journey.

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6 hours ago, LeKopo said:

My relationship with God seems is no more, as I gradually slipped away from him and decided to go my own way in life, and I'm currently enduring the pain of ending that relationship. It's been about a month now. Literally the feeling of a breakup. Except it was true love and with something you can't see and tough. I think about when I was a Christian, places I'd go, church, reading the Bible and thinking about how happy and spiritual I was with God and the conviction of "truth."  But now it seems I'm back to life's old issues, being dictated by what people think of me. I'm back to my 5 normal senses which are back to being very vivid, pain feels like pain again, and the physical gratification has returned.

I don't find enjoyment anymore. Coming down from being a true Christian is a tough one. I keep thinking well if I'm going to die then what's the point. Nothing seems to be fulfilling anymore after my Christian spiritual experience. I feel sad and guilty for breaking up with God and loving other things. I'm hollow and empty.

I don't know if I'm alone but I certainly know that you guys could understand how unsettling this is. Is there any advice anyone could offer for me getting over this fear of hell/judgement and the emotional pain of ending love with that unseen force who you prayed to everyday?

 

 

 

 

Maybe some of you Kiwi's can band together since you are all so close. Maybe send a message to brother @LogicalFallacy and see what he thinks about it. 

 

Another exercise, replace the word "god" in the above with "Santa Claus" and take a closer look at what's really going on here. You're literally loathing the loss of an imaginary figment of your own imagination. That's exactly what this is. How hard on yourself should you be about that? Intellectualize the situation a little bit. How bad did you beat yourself up as a child when you learned there was no Santa Claus and the presents came from family and friends? 

 

 

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I have been summoned from the depths of hell... or so my family would think...

 

Welcome LeKopo

 

Good to see another Kiwi here. @Wertbag is also on this site and posts regularly. We have a few other Kiwis who don't post often. We also meet up on Discord, details are found here:

 

16 hours ago, LeKopo said:

My relationship with God seems is no more, as I gradually slipped away from him and decided to go my own way in life, and I'm currently enduring the pain of ending that relationship. It's been about a month now. Literally the feeling of a breakup. Except it was true love and with something you can't see and tough. I think about when I was a Christian, places I'd go, church, reading the Bible and thinking about how happy and spiritual I was with God and the conviction of "truth."  But now it seems I'm back to life's old issues, being dictated by what people think of me. I'm back to my 5 normal senses which are back to being very vivid, pain feels like pain again, and the physical gratification has returned.

 

Been there about two years ago. Still going through issues. My family is fundy and I've become more liberal so you can imagine the conflicts when various subjects in our political sphere that are being discussed (Abortion, euthanasia, drug use etc) However the pain of 'breaking up with god' does pass with time, especially as you realise you were essentially having a relationship with a fantasy in your own mind.

 

Quote

I don't find enjoyment anymore. Coming down from being a true Christian is a tough one. I keep thinking well if I'm going to die then what's the point. Nothing seems to be fulfilling anymore after my Christian spiritual experience. I feel sad and guilty for breaking up with God and loving other things. I'm hollow and empty.

 

It's usual to have these feelings, but I'd urge you to find a social group that has similar interests as you. You've listed a few interests so find groups that revolve around those. The point of living I think is experiencing life. Often people say well what's the point, there's no grand purpose - but there never was! Purpose in our lives is what we make it. You are free from the shackles of make believe - go live in the real world and what it has to offer.

 

Quote

I don't know if I'm alone but I certainly know that you guys could understand how unsettling this is. Is there any advice anyone could offer for me getting over this fear of hell/judgement and the emotional pain of ending love with that unseen force who you prayed to everyday?

 

You are not alone. While we all have different experiences, every ex-Christian has been through what you are going through to some degree. Some breeze through without a care, others are far more devastated than you and find it hard to cope.

 

On the hell subject- there are a number of great topics on this site on the fear of hell.

 

The simple question I ask is are you afraid of Hades, or the Underworld? If not, then why are you afraid of the Christian hell for which there is no evidence it exists?

 

As for emotional pain, what lead you away from Christianity? My journey was not emotional, though it had very emotional periods, but mine was an intellectual discovery. I got to the point where I could not honestly say I believed in God because of the lack of evidence for God, and evidence contrary to biblical claims. So for me this severely muted the emotional response.

 

I'd love to hear from you

 

All the best

LF

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16 hours ago, LeKopo said:

My relationship with God seems is no more, as I gradually slipped away from him and decided to go my own way in life, and I'm currently enduring the pain of ending that relationship. It's been about a month now. Literally the feeling of a breakup. Except it was true love and with something you can't see and tough. I think about when I was a Christian, places I'd go, church, reading the Bible and thinking about how happy and spiritual I was with God and the conviction of "truth."  But now it seems I'm back to life's old issues, being dictated by what people think of me. I'm back to my 5 normal senses which are back to being very vivid, pain feels like pain again, and the physical gratification has returned.

I don't find enjoyment anymore. Coming down from being a true Christian is a tough one. I keep thinking well if I'm going to die then what's the point. Nothing seems to be fulfilling anymore after my Christian spiritual experience. I feel sad and guilty for breaking up with God and loving other things. I'm hollow and empty.

I don't know if I'm alone but I certainly know that you guys could understand how unsettling this is. Is there any advice anyone could offer for me getting over this fear of hell/judgement and the emotional pain of ending love with that unseen force who you prayed to everyday?

 

 

 

Welcome to exc!

Your whole world view has been turned on its head and your reactions are entirely normal. You're going through a grieving process because you realized you really aren't special or chosen, don't have a special relationship with a father figure, and the whole thing has been a delusion. Yes, it's like a love affair, I think Marlene Winell uses that term in her book Leaving the Fold, which I recommend to everyone who ends up here and is going through the difficult process of leaving it all behind. That book will help you make some sense of what you're going through, the stages of deconversion, and what you can expect. However, it's different for everyone. 

Finding purpose can be done by examining yourself, asking yourself what values and interests are important to you, and acting on those. You have values regardless of if you're religious or not. Do you enjoy helping others? If so go volunteer. Do you have hobbies? Find some clubs to join. These will help if you also need to build a new social network. They will keep you from feeling too isolated, which also leads to or complicates depression.

Seek a secular therapist if required to help you with the process. It can be tough on your mental health. 

And last but not least, be kind to yourself. Christians are programmed to feel guilt and doubt over ridiculous things. You've just started to walk down one of the more difficult but also rewarding paths in life, so give yourself a pat on the back and congratulations. It gets better with time. Also, join us on discord and let it all out there if you need to. 

Don't expect your fears to go away quickly. Deprogramming your brain takes time and education. Reading and educationing yourself on the bible, and the creation of the heaven and hell concepts will help. These forums are as great place to start with reading and learning. 

All the best. 

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@LeKopo, sorry you're going through this. Stop by discord sometime to chat. There's lots of good people there. PM me if you want.

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22 hours ago, LeKopo said:

I don't find enjoyment anymore. Coming down from being a true Christian is a tough one. I keep thinking well if I'm going to die then what's the point. Nothing seems to be fulfilling anymore after my Christian spiritual experience. I feel sad and guilty for breaking up with God and loving other things. I'm hollow and empty.

I have suffered from depression and it can be very hard to find your joy, but you have to remember it does get better and your life will improve.  I struggled to find happiness, everything became a chore and you fail to see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Well I can tell you it is certainly there.  My personal breakthrough was martial arts.  Finding an activity that challenges you, helps meet new people, gains fitness, sets achievable goals and most importantly keeps your mind busy.  I realised I was only depressed when I sat and dwelled on it, but as soon as my mind was focused on activities then I just didn't stop to feel bad.  I took classes to learn German, I wrote a book, I ran the half marathon, I wrote a business plan, I cross trained in several martial arts and once my life was full there was no room for depression.

Once I had some self confidence I tried online dating and have now been married for 6 years with two cute kids.  If I've had a bad day at work, coming home to a flying cuddle from the cuteness can't fail to put a smile on my face.

Find your joy, try new things and put yourself out there.  It will get better.

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LeKopo, I hope you are still on the forum.  And still alive!  Facing the loneliness and finding motivation for living can be difficult, but can be done.  

 

First, be sure to follow through with your mental health treatment. And like other's have said, find a sense of community somewhere.  Are therapy groups available through your mental health center?  If there is a Unitarian Universalist church available, give them a try.  They fellowship agnostics, atheist, Buddhist, etc.  You might even look into Buddahism.  It is more of a philosophy than a religion, for which I have a lot of respect.  Another source is American Humanist Association.  Or there may be a similar organization in NZ.  HANG IN THERE!

 

P.S.  Let us know how you are doing!

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Cheers again for the warm responses and to update, I'm doing better and alive.

 

I am back enjoying things and active. I still feel occasional guilt and sorrow for not having that fatherly like connection but through Christianity and coming down from it I have came to know myself even more and my place in the world, and the wisdom I have received I am able to apply that in my life and I know how people work better.

 

The fear of hell is not as bad and I dont feel as condemned, I start to think critically about things. For example why did God draw me to his son and gave me faith if he knew I was going turn my way and leave the faith 4 months later? If there's a judgement day I would ask that question because the bible says only the father can draw someone to being a Christian.. and there are other things I am starting to find confusing aswell.

 

To be honest lately hell seems better than nothing at all for eternity. I still fear death like everyone does naturally but I am more focused on my own life than death.

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On 11/13/2018 at 5:30 PM, LeKopo said:

 

 I am more focused on my own life than death.

 

That is good to hear!

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  • 2 months later...

Hey, I'm so glad I found this post. Reading all of your announcements makes me feel better knowing I'm not the only one. I went/ still am going through an existential crisis which started 3 months ago. For a long time, I wanted to find purpose in life. The statement "it doesn't matter if we're all gonna die anyway" kept coming through my head. This leads me to depression which got exponentially worse. After around a month or so the voices kinda stopped and my thoughts were clearer, I could distract myself and somewhat focus. And then I started thinking about the afterlife. The thought of death I feared so much I pretty much forced myself into believing there is something after we have passed. I have not read the bible and for a few days, that is all I could think about, which I knew was not a good way to live. At this point, every day was dreadful, sadness and remorse for my "sins" have taken over. I felt so remorseful that some thoughts amongst the line of "well if I'm gonna go to hell anyway, maybe the devil may have something to offer", at the time I knew this was a bad thought but it didn't stop it from reoccurring and pretty much driving me insane. I started thinking about how my life was before this existential crisis hit me, started to work my way backwards and realised that the only reason people believe in god is so that there is some hope for after they die. Anxiety started to settle in at this point, I can relate to you with the panic attacks where they would come out of nowhere and literally leave me walking lifelessly around the house at 1 am. Just a few days ago I was at my worst, the voice was starting to get to me, I felt so empty at this point, not even sad, just empty, suicide seemed like an escape. My thoughts were getting mixed up and I couldn't separate my own true thoughts from the horrible ones. I managed to convince myself that God doesn't exist, and thus the devil can't exist either, that these thoughts are just thoughts painted in my head. All I wanted to say was thank you, had I not found this post who knows what I would be thinking about now, feel like I belong in a mental hospital. Just wanted to ask, how can I now reinforce the fact that neither god or the devil exists? Its really difficult seeing majority of the world is Christian and I too was raised in a Christian family. 

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18 hours ago, Viktor said:

 Just wanted to ask, how can I now reinforce the fact that neither god or the devil exists? Its really difficult seeing majority of the world is Christian and I too was raised in a Christian family. 

It's not really a matter of reinforcing these facts, it's more about examining the arguments for and against god(s), and understanding them yourself, as well as understanding how the bible came to be written, by whom, and how it's just a book that reflects the belief and cultures of its time, ie it isn't "god's word" and the ultimate book for how to lead your life. There are a LOT of discussions in this forum about the arguments for and against the existence of gods as well as discussions about the bible, a lot of them are likely in the Lion's Den where many of us have had discussions with Christians. Also @Citsonga has a very excellent and thorough letter examining much of the problematic issues with Christianity, you can find it here and I believe he has a direct link to the final version as well from his profile. Personally, I found the more I educated myself on all these issues, the faster all my remaining indoctrination/fears just disappeared. It's a matter of understanding how your mind and emotions have been manipulated, so you can consciously begin to undo that.

 

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Viktor, hang in there!

 

I don't know how to do a link, but you can go to the testimony section, page 2, (or 3) and find my 10 page story about finding truth.  A personal story about a gradual awakening.  

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Hi Viktor. It's really good to have you here on this site. I am so very sorry to hear of what you've been goingb through!! Don't let deperssion ruin your life or cause you to take some unfounded actions. If you start having suicidal thoughts again please seek help immediately.  Call the Mental Health Foundation of New Zealand Suicide Crisis Helpline – 0508 828 865 (0508 TAUTOKO) or you can Skype the US hotline completely free at 1-800-273-8255 but please don't ever try to go through an episode of considering or even toying with the idea of suicide all by yourself. The lines are staffed with the most sensitive caring well trained individuals who are typically volunteering their time just to be available to help anyone of us who is having these thoughts. I also think you would benefit greatly by reading Marlene Winell"s book, Leaving The Fold, and also taking a look at her website: https://www.marlenewinell.net/. She specializes in helping people like us make the difficult transition away from these cult like Christian religions and helps us recognize and recover from the surprisingly great mental harm these religions cause (for example from fears left implanted in our minds). Before i leave this part I want to recomend if at all possible financially to get treatment or at least a one time evaluation session with a good secular therapist regarding your depression, panic attacks, suicidal thoughts, empty feelings, etc. Above all learn how to take good care of yourself and practice that every day. I give this advice often here but think about yourself as the ideal parent and how understanding, available, forgiving, encouraging, patient, etc. you would be and then work toward being that parent to yourself. Your emotions are what brought you into a cult (fundamental evangelical christianity) and keep hold of you, but your reason is what can eventually set you free. Don't allow scary confusing thoughts to take control of your mind. Fight back. Pull those thoughts right out into the light of day and separate them into all there pieces, put them out on the table and then use your reason to figure out what is the most reasonable explanation for your feelings and how true are the "facts" you're using to support those feelings. For example when you say to yourself in support of fears about deconverting that the " majority of the world is Christian" which on an emotional level seems absolutely true stop and  check using your best Googling practices to find the most reliable online source possible. In this case it is very easy because the percentage of christians in the world is not seriously questioned. It is 33%. So fully 67% of humanity do not choose to be Christian! So your emotions have it backwards in this example but you have the ability to diminish the impact just by looking and questioning. Other questions might the come to mind once you've learned this new fact regarding how powerful could the Holy Spirit really be and why is God so ineffective at reaching humans? This kind of searching is what ultimately ended my fear of hell. There is absolutely no good reasonable support for hell so when my mind became absolutely convinced, my emotion based fear diminished until it just went away. It was a very long process and probably not 100% gone at any moment in time but it can't hurt me now. I believe you can gain ground every time you fight back with reason. If a real creator god exists it very obviously did not hand every human a book when they come into this world but it did equip just about every human with a functioning brain so it seems to me that the message from a god if one exists is to use our mind to determine what is true including what may be true or untrue in any books that we encounter. I hope you stay with us for a while and keep posting things that trouble you as you go through your deconversion.

 

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Thanks a lot for the support and ideas guys. Feeling a lot better, its still very difficult to focus as this is on my mind 24/7 but I'm learning to control my thoughts...I think... Better understanding the arguments have helped me disassociate the voice with the devil and more so realise that these are bad thoughts..., still these thoughts get to me as it's not something I can stop thinking about and ignore, perhaps there is some way to manage these negative thoughts in a way that would help me focus in school and at work? Because right now it is a little difficult to focus and get things done, especially at school. Thanks once again for reaching out :). 

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On 2/4/2019 at 9:24 AM, DanForsman said:

Hi Viktor. It's really good to have you here on this site. I am so very sorry to hear of what you've been goingb through!! Don't let deperssion ruin your life or cause you to take some unfounded actions. If you start having suicidal thoughts again please seek help immediately.  Call the Mental Health Foundation of New Zealand Suicide Crisis Helpline – 0508 828 865 (0508 TAUTOKO) or you can Skype the US hotline completely free at 1-800-273-8255 but please don't ever try to go through an episode of considering or even toying with the idea of suicide all by yourself. The lines are staffed with the most sensitive caring well trained individuals who are typically volunteering their time just to be available to help anyone of us who is having these thoughts. I also think you would benefit greatly by reading Marlene Winell"s book, Leaving The Fold, and also taking a look at her website: https://www.marlenewinell.net/. She specializes in helping people like us make the difficult transition away from these cult like Christian religions and helps us recognize and recover from the surprisingly great mental harm these religions cause (for example from fears left implanted in our minds). Before i leave this part I want to recomend if at all possible financially to get treatment or at least a one time evaluation session with a good secular therapist regarding your depression, panic attacks, suicidal thoughts, empty feelings, etc. Above all learn how to take good care of yourself and practice that every day. I give this advice often here but think about yourself as the ideal parent and how understanding, available, forgiving, encouraging, patient, etc. you would be and then work toward being that parent to yourself. Your emotions are what brought you into a cult (fundamental evangelical christianity) and keep hold of you, but your reason is what can eventually set you free. Don't allow scary confusing thoughts to take control of your mind. Fight back. Pull those thoughts right out into the light of day and separate them into all there pieces, put them out on the table and then use your reason to figure out what is the most reasonable explanation for your feelings and how true are the "facts" you're using to support those feelings. For example when you say to yourself in support of fears about deconverting that the " majority of the world is Christian" which on an emotional level seems absolutely true stop and  check using your best Googling practices to find the most reliable online source possible. In this case it is very easy because the percentage of christians in the world is not seriously questioned. It is 33%. So fully 67% of humanity do not choose to be Christian! So your emotions have it backwards in this example but you have the ability to diminish the impact just by looking and questioning. Other questions might the come to mind once you've learned this new fact regarding how powerful could the Holy Spirit really be and why is God so ineffective at reaching humans? This kind of searching is what ultimately ended my fear of hell. There is absolutely no good reasonable support for hell so when my mind became absolutely convinced, my emotion based fear diminished until it just went away. It was a very long process and probably not 100% gone at any moment in time but it can't hurt me now. I believe you can gain ground every time you fight back with reason. If a real creator god exists it very obviously did not hand every human a book when they come into this world but it did equip just about every human with a functioning brain so it seems to me that the message from a god if one exists is to use our mind to determine what is true including what may be true or untrue in any books that we encounter. I hope you stay with us for a while and keep posting things that trouble you as you go through your deconversion.

 

 

Dan,

 

I just have to say that it's really appreciated that you take the time to write posts like this one. They are extremely helpful to, not only the addressee, but to many more who read these. You are truly an asset to this site. 

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On 2/6/2019 at 8:51 AM, MOHO said:

 

Dan,

 

I just have to say that it's really appreciated that you take the time to write posts like this one. They are extremely helpful to, not only the addressee, but to many more who read these. You are truly an asset to this site. 

Thank you so much MOHO. It's a wonderful thing to feel appreciated. The internet is amazing in what it has done to help people who are questioning their religion to have readily available information (including things contrary to what is taught in churches) anonymously. My heart goes out to people and especially children who are wanting or trying to free themselves from these damaging cults. I retired last week and am thinking of starting a Recovering From Religion local group as part of my plan for creating a fulfilling new phase in my life. I believe you and I and everyone who contributes here are performing a much needed service that just wasn't available back when I was 13, 14, and 15 and would so much have appreciated a place like this to talk about what I was thinking and the problems I was facing. Your enthusiasm and genuineness come through so clearly (along with your sense of humor) in your frequent posts. Keep up the good work! It's great to be participating on this site with you.

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