Being taught to have a relationship with one’s self

[Samuel]

I was wondering if anyone had a similar experience of being taught to have a relationship “with god” but which was really with themselves. 

 

I went through this experience. And the effects of this have been one of the harder parts of my deconversion. Both my parents were oddly spiritual as you might call it and into their “personal” relationships with the deity. They were part of the reason I believed in the normalness of trying to carry out a relationship with the god in my head.

 

Id love to hear what other people have to say. But I’m also curious about this from a psychology stand point: isn’t this the weirdest sort of cultural thing a human being could be taught, with possibilities of sparking all sorts of mental illness? 

 

[MamaCaz]

I don't view it as though I had a relationship with myself, I had a false relationship with a made up being. In the movie Castaway Hanks' character had a relationship with himself because Wilson was a personification of himself, and all of Wilson's thoughts and personality came directly from his own mind.  In Christianity, god and jesus' characters are already fabricated in the Bible.  I think we did hear our own thoughts when we thought God was speaking to us, so in that aspect yes, we were listening to ourselves.  But for the most part I don't think it was myself that I had a relationship with.  I'm actually just getting to know myself lately, having been dx autistic and ADD last year at age 36 and this year losing my religion (insert REM song here).  If anything, I feel like my own personality has been shoved down over the years with all the "be like Jesus" crap.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Having some "insight", or basic understanding of who you are is healthy, but that doesn't sound like what your religion was promoting.  From what you describe, it sounds like they were attempting to develop "robots", not healthy human beings.  Sounds like you are developing some good insights.  This is a good place to find encouragement and information.   HANG IN THERE!

[Astreja]

10 hours ago, Samuel said:

I was wondering if anyone had a similar experience of being taught to have a relationship “with god” but which was really with themselves... 

 

... isn’t this the weirdest sort of cultural thing a human being could be taught, with possibilities of sparking all sorts of mental illness? 

 

 

I can see it fracturing a personality into two parts:  An unattainable ideal, and a being so flawed from birth that there's no way to reach the ideal.  That is a recipe for psychological disaster.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I've heard the "relationship" described by a psychologist as something termed an "introject", a survival aspect of our minds that creates a virtual parent when we are children. That virtual parent speaks with the imaginary voice of the actual parent to remind the child of warnings the actual parent gave. If the parent said "Don't go out in the jungle alone, there are tigers that will eat you" this comes back in the form of an imaginary parent relating similar things and helps the child survive when the parent isn't actually there.

 

So when believers are told "Don't do _____ because DEMONS and TORTURE IN FLAMES", the virtual god shakes his finger at them for normal things like lust, anger, ambition, and so on. I remember having arguments with this virtual god over "sin".

 

Almost all believers have this internal friend/sadist/parent-figure which they think is the holy spirit. It isn't. It is a misprogrammed survival area of the mind doing what it naturally does, trying to keep us out of harm. Our minds can seem to have multiple personalities simultaneously, and we tend to only notice this when someone manifests them outwardly. I've noticed it while doing introspection about my own desires and motivations. Authors of novels often say that their characters seem to take on a life of their own, even correcting the author about storylines or suggesting a better angle. The mind is a fascinating thing, and humans made their place in the world by having minds that are great at abstractions like this. Abstraction also gave us language, math, science, philosophy, and sadly religions in the thousands.

[NeverHealed52Years]

WOW...can I relate to the excellent comments made by all of you.  Finally someone who understands.

 

My upbringing totally turned me into a ROBOT that never was allowed have a facial expression, speak a word , spontaneous, happy, loud, giddy, fun or any other action or a thought of my own because of FEAR of triggering a physical and/or verbal beating.

 

Then I got into Pentecost religion that also shuts down all thinking, most actions, and controls  every thought, every feeling, every word spoken because of FEAR (again) it could be expressing doubt (which causes loss of answers to prayer) or a sin. (thanks to Jesus saying that  thinking is as sinful as the actual action).

 

They also teach a personal relationship with God/Jesus/HS. And they teach that they talk to us all day every day about everything...we just aren't listening...we need to learn to listen to them. And ignore ourselves because WE cant be trusted at all.

 

Then of course there are all the voices of the devil and all his demons talking to us every minute of the day tempting us and trying to get us to speak and think doubt and unbelief!

 

So we have a relationship with the three stooges and all the evil spirits but no relationship with ourselves. We get lost in the chaos, turmoil and voices.

 

We are also taught to NOT have a relationship with ourselves. We are evil and stupid and cant do anything on our own. So don't dare have a relationship with ourselves.

 

Soooo the voices in my head from all of this never stopped. And yes I thought it was God/Holy Spirit/Jesus,  the Devil/demons. . But was always not totally sure which one it was.   YET IT WAS PROBABLY MOSTLY A RELATIONSHIP WITH ME. I JUST WAS crazy from all the insanity of it all and couldn't tell it was me.

 

Religion makes people crazy. Even when/if they are raised normal and healthy..and you lose a relationship with yourself. And forget who you are..if you were ever allowed to know who you were before religion.

 

The BEST part of deconverting was ALL of the voices stopped!!! EXCEPT ME !!! No medications, no mental health professional therapies for years and years...nothing. All I did was walk away from religion of any kind. I will say though I have not walked away from a spiritual life/beliefs. There are spiritual entities good and bad. But when RELIGION was totally purged from me the voices went with it!

 

But the most important part is I am a ME!! I have a relationship with Me. I listen to me instead of some spirit. It is Ok to have a relationship with me.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

I am glad you are doing well!  Sounds like you have a lot to be thankful for on this year's thanksgiving day.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

I am curious as to what happened to Samuel, the original OPer.

[Samuel]

On 11/21/2018 at 4:51 PM, Weezer said:

I am curious as to what happened to Samuel, the original OPer.

 

Hey guys, I’ve found all the comments super excellent thanks. I reread them and have thought about them again several times and have been working through more of this deconversion along those lines. I added hearts to the comments.

 

Neverhealed52years really put a point on something I had forgotten and just made me recall: the complete arrogance and assholery of being told that your fucking being talked to all the time (I recall the smug and confident bastards in positions of power who solemnly affirmed this to me and many others) and it’s just your fault for not hearing. WHO THE FUCK tells that to a kid!!!! You should be hearing voices that don’t exist and if you don’t hear them you are evil, bad sinful etc... 

 

I was really looking for more healthy framing/seeing the experience and I think I got that a bit more.

 

 

 

 

 

[PurpleLilac]

Yup. Lots and lots and lots of talking to myself. And since the voices were encouraged to be Scripture (from both ends of the conversation),eventually all that I could hear was “You’re worthless”. But thanks be to progress for good therapy! The other day I was feeling anxious about something unfamiliar I needed to do and the words came unbidden “God,please help me..” and I abruptly stopped and said to myself “I can DO this! I have the skills and the intelligence and I can do this well.” And fuck yeah,I did. 

[Dexter]

Same as everyone above. My final hold to Christianity broke when I finally saw that my God was a scarecrow. Something I had constructed, projected myself onto and believed in because he was so very real to me. 

 

Whereas many people’s scarecrow gods are full of wrath, punishment and condemnation, mine was not. That is probably why I held to it for so long. 

 

See, I believed that I was evil and wicked in all ways and it was only through god’s influence in my life that I was good. That my mercy, love and forgiveness were god’s gifts to me and not intrinsic to me. I was evil but god told me I was ok and that I could do anything. I didn’t encourage me but god did. 

 

But when I finally realized that my scarecrow god was a personification of myself it took me awhile to actually accept the thought that, maybe, just maybe, I’m not actually evil and that I might genuinely be a good person all on my own. ((NOTE: It took me several minutes to write that last sentence. The voices of descent in my head declaring me evil are still very strong))

[◊ Weezer ◊]

14 hours ago, Dexter said:

 ((NOTE: It took me several minutes to write that last sentence. The voices of descent in my head declaring me evil are still very strong))

 

They will fade away with time. Just hang in there!