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On narcissistic Christian parenting

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https://www.patheos.com/blogs/fridaynightheretics/2014/06/its-not-me-its-you-children-of-christian-narcissists/

This was shared with me by @GypsyMoon today, and it provides some insight into how Christian parenting can be pretty toxic when combined with narcissistic family systems. 

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I will look this one up. I am the child of a mother with a personality disorder (she died some years ago). I am still wondering how much of the experience I had as a child was personality disorder and how much was batshit crazy devotion to evangelical Christianity.

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Wow, such a great article. All these things are true. I think it’s hard to express all this and get help for it too. I don’t even know what the help looks like and I’ve been to codependents anonymous meetings for just this reason and broken off contact with my parents before I was ready, and when I still needed help from them. It was always the lure of help that might come if I stuck around. I just didn’t have a choice emotionally and for my well being and the boundaries that I drew. 

 

I think about it and really realize how much I hoped that they would come to their senses before I had to cut the remaining ties and take on challenges in my life I wasn’t ready to take on alone. 

 

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It’s weird my parents will actually help but only if I am willing to let them feel like saviors. 

 

Its been hard for me to see that as not help. 

 

Its been hard hard to get over the fact that they use this as an excuse to tell friends and family sure we’re willing to help. 

 

Most recently I’ve been homeless, they know this, they kicked me out of the house because I wouldn’t engage them about being gay or a wide range of other things. While they were clearly able to make the fact that they were kicking me out known, they failed to provide any options. They’re not poor people. They have a house in Orange County CA but live full time in Scotland as religious “missionaries” because the Scottish must be convinced of the new Christian truths their cult leader  revealed about the world ending in Europe. 

 

They sent an evicition threat through certified mail, and I left by the date demanded. I didn’t have anywhere to go, they know that. 

 

Im in the tough position of needing help, them knowing I need help, and knowing that under no circumstances am I willing to let their religion back into my life again. And there’s just this cruelty factor where I don’t feel like I can talk to friends or family because they would all say your parents are willing to help you just have to talk with them. Because that’s the truth, they are able to help, it makes no difference to them, but they just have that narcissist self centered manipulative truth with a Christian face.

 

I don’t seem to be able to explain to people that it’s not as it seems.

 

thanks for this article.

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8 hours ago, Samuel said:

It’s weird my parents will actually help but only if I am willing to let them feel like saviors. 

 

Its been hard for me to see that as not help. 

 

Its been hard hard to get over the fact that they use this as an excuse to tell friends and family sure we’re willing to help. 

 

Most recently I’ve been homeless, they know this, they kicked me out of the house because I wouldn’t engage them about being gay or a wide range of other things. While they were clearly able to make the fact that they were kicking me out known, they failed to provide any options. They’re not poor people. They have a house in Orange County CA but live full time in Scotland as religious “missionaries” because the Scottish must be convinced of the new Christian truths their cult leader  revealed about the world ending in Europe. 

 

They sent an evicition threat through certified mail, and I left by the date demanded. I didn’t have anywhere to go, they know that. 

 

Im in the tough position of needing help, them knowing I need help, and knowing that under no circumstances am I willing to let their religion back into my life again. And there’s just this cruelty factor where I don’t feel like I can talk to friends or family because they would all say your parents are willing to help you just have to talk with them. Because that’s the truth, they are able to help, it makes no difference to them, but they just have that narcissist self centered manipulative truth with a Christian face.

 

I don’t seem to be able to explain to people that it’s not as it seems.

 

thanks for this article.

Sam, I'm so sorry to hear what you've been through. I don't have personal experiences like this with my own parents but I have friends who do. What your parents are doing is typical narcissistic behavior, needing to play a role and only willing to help (it's actually manipulation, not help in that form) when you let them play that role by their rules. It's hard, but you're doing the right thing, as difficult as that is. I hope you are able to receive help from elsewhere. Your parents aren't acting like parents in any sense of the word.

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From the Patheos article...

 

"Symptoms of Biblical Adherence Disorder Syndrome include: black and white thinking; loving the sinner but hating the sin; an inability to see other people’s points of view; private shame and public shaming; delusions of heaven; delusions of hell; a need to always be right; having conversations in your head with God; substituting the word God for I when demanding people respect your opinion; cognitive dissonance and intellectual dishonesty; magical thinking; controlling your loved ones; disbelief in scientific facts; and a strong justification for self-absorbed selfish behavior because, you know, God."

 

Oh my God!

That describes Mrs. MOHO to a fucking Teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

 

My main question falls along the lines of chicken and egg theory. 

Are these folks narcissistic  because of their religious fixations or do they latch on to abusive, controlling religions because they are born narcissists? 

My guess is that a combination of the above stated is at play. 

My fear is that my relationship will never get better. I have never known a narcissist to relinquish any amount of control or self fixation.

 

On a kind of side-notish comment - I answered YES to all of the opening questions in the article. 

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3 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

Sam, I'm so sorry to hear what you've been through. I don't have personal experiences like this with my own parents but I have friends who do. What your parents are doing is typical narcissistic behavior, needing to play a role and only willing to help (it's actually manipulation, not help in that form) when you let them play that role by their rules. It's hard, but you're doing the right thing, as difficult as that is. I hope you are able to receive help from elsewhere. Your parents aren't acting like parents in any sense of the word.

 

Thanks truthseeker,

 

I’m just taking it one day at a time. One of the things that is crazy is that if felt like they sensed I was getting over it, and just ratcheted things up and made it harder for my deconversion etc... 

 

They’re definitely not my allies. And that’s really hard because there’s this kid part of my brain that I have to explain this to. 

 

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My mother is a Christian narcissist. It’s sick how she twists and turns the bible to suit her 

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1 hour ago, Questioningone said:

My mother is a Christian narcissist. It’s sick how she twists and turns the bible to suit her 

 

Yes. SICK.

Remember that! :crazy:

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On 11/12/2018 at 6:58 PM, TruthSeeker0 said:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/fridaynightheretics/2014/06/its-not-me-its-you-children-of-christian-narcissists/

This was shared with me by @GypsyMoon today, and it provides some insight into how Christian parenting can be pretty toxic when combined with narcissistic family systems. 

OMG this article exactly describes my life, except replace every instance of 'mother' in the article with 'father'. Wow this article is well written and is very accurate and descriptive. Also it's insightful. Thank you so much!

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43 minutes ago, DestinyTurtle said:

OMG this article exactly describes my life, except replace every instance of 'mother' in the article with 'father'. Wow this article is well written and is very accurate and descriptive. Also it's insightful. Thank you so much!

You're welcome. In a world of crazy, it really helps to get validation. And then you can move on with how to deal (or rather not deal - likely the easier choice) with these types of people, because they aren't easy to deal with.

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Oh yes I have narcissistic Christian parents. I was the bastard child in my family as I did not obey them like my siblings who were basic sheep like my parents wanted. I was abused physically and emotionally for over a decade by my dad, while my mom did nothing and even encouraged it in some ways. 

 

As an adult now it is clear to me they think less of me since I do not share their religious beliefs, the other siblings who all have the same religious beliefs get a much different behavior from my parents. They get access to family cars, internet, etc. I am not trusted. They claim they do love me but its not the same love they give their other kids. I am done with them. They have 6 kids not including me. I cant even cry anymore I am too numb at this point.

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On 12/8/2018 at 3:39 PM, Blackleo85 said:

Oh yes I have narcissistic Christian parents. I was the bastard child in my family as I did not obey them like my siblings who were basic sheep like my parents wanted. I was abused physically and emotionally for over a decade by my dad, while my mom did nothing and even encouraged it in some ways. 

 

As an adult now it is clear to me they think less of me since I do not share their religious beliefs, the other siblings who all have the same religious beliefs get a much different behavior from my parents. They get access to family cars, internet, etc. I am not trusted. They claim they do love me but its not the same love they give their other kids. I am done with them. They have 6 kids not including me. I cant even cry anymore I am too numb at this point.

 

I’m sorry, that really sucks. I know the feeling though. I’ve struggled to get away from it completely. There was always that bit of cheese that my parents seemed to leave out saying well we’re not big enough just to give it to you but we are emotionally competent enough to know how to use it to hurt you.

 

I think it took me a lot longer to realize that I just need to grow as a person and the stuff they like to put on the table is just a waste of time.

 

As for claims of “love” fuck that. I’ve always had a hate for the way parents use love as a sort of legal coverall statement. The truth is that love is specific, individual, and if you’re not feeling it, it’s probably not there or they’ve forgotten the meaning behind the word. 

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2 hours ago, Samuel said:

 

I’m sorry, that really sucks. I know the feeling though. I’ve struggled to get away from it completely. There was always that bit of cheese that my parents seemed to leave out saying well we’re not big enough just to give it to you but we are emotionally competent enough to know how to use it to hurt you.

 

I think it took me a lot longer to realize that I just need to grow as a person and the stuff they like to put on the table is just a waste of time.

 

As for claims of “love” fuck that. I’ve always had a hate for the way parents use love as a sort of legal coverall statement. The truth is that love is specific, individual, and if you’re not feeling it, it’s probably not there or they’ve forgotten the meaning behind the word. 

Or they never knew it. Sadly, narcissistic parenting sometimes turns into a generational thing that's passed on. Those who face the truth like you guys are doing are able to break the cycle. Some children however aren't even aware of how dysfunctional it is and they then perpetuate it. 

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Very good article.  Thanks for sharing.  A lot of it describes my mom, except she is more subtle.  Sometimes that's good and sometimes its bad.  I think if she said what she's thinking to my face, at least I could respond.  My mom knows I don't go to church anymore, but I don't think I can ever tell her I don't believe all the god stuff anymore.  She would crumble to tiny pieces.  I live in another state, so that helps.  I know I need to find a healthy balance for myself.  My son got married a couple of years ago.  I felt uncomfortable doing all the normal celebratory things in front of my mom, mother/son dance, cocktail, and even dancing with my husband.  I drank my margarita in a red Solo cup, around a corner from them.  I did do what I wanted to do, so I guess that's a win.

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Read this and then immediately linked it to my husband and two of my best friends with the note that it's like it was being written about my dad... thanks for sharing it! @mrspearl I'm with you, I have no idea how to approach my parents, even my mother who is the less entrenched of the two of them, and I'm afraid of acting like the person I really am where they can see me. My father doesn't even know that I've ever tasted alcohol... he threatened to never speak to me again over getting my nose pierced when I was twenty! It's all about how it reflects on him in front of everyone at their church.

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I must confess...

 

I am a "narcissist."

 

I was raised by Christian parents, and forced to excel at various athletic and academic activities.  

 

Incidentally, a full acceptance of my nature as a narcissist - or, more accurately, as Dark Triad man, has helped me take steps away from Christianity.

 

My parents made me memorize huge chunks of the Bible.  I was one of the rare Christians that read every word of every book of the Bible.  LOL - how many Christians know how many books are in the bible, or how many are in the old testament or the new testament.

 

Side note:  How can you believe that God wrote a book, and you don't bother to read it... but you read 50 Shades of Grey?  

 

Sorry, got sidetracked.

 

Yes, I am a Narcissistic.  Actually, much worse than that.  I am a Dark Triad Man.  A lil' bit of Narcissism + A lil' bit of Machiavelli +A lil' bit of psychopath.  LOL. 

 

Hey, don't knock it 'til you try it.    

 

Speaking of lovable, has anyone noticed how distinctly unlovable many Christians are?  The Christians I know are the most fake, most snake like people I know, and they do it all under the guise of "truth" and "morality."  

 

Pretty genius if you think about it.  Tell massive lie, and shroud it in truth.  Most humans don't pay attention and end up easily duped.  Sometimes sad, sometimes hilarious - always stupid.  

 

Anyone with half a brain and a nose can do a sniff test on Christianity's validity.  

 

A bunch of anonymous gospel authors, with no original copies, the ****in "Q Document," and interpolations.  

 

Anyway, back to my favorite subject:  Me.

 

LOL. Just kidding.

 

No really.

 

If you ever read the books 48 Laws of Power, 33 Strategies of War, Art of Seduction, Mastery, etc, then you might get what I'm talking about.

 

The world is kind of a ****ed up place.  If you don't believe me, then just ask this buffalo or the bull in this fight.  (<<<--- Disclaimer:  Not exactly Disney's The Lion King).  

 

You have to be realistic.  

 

Not to get political, just look at Donald Trump.  I don't really care about American politics, but you have to admit that he played the game perfectly.  If the game itself is flawed, if the rules of the game itself are ****ed up, doesn't it kind of logically follow that having a "****ed up," rule-breaking approach would payoff?  Fight fire with the ultimate fire, in other words.  Out-monster the monster, to paraphrase Nietzsche.  

 

"The lamb does not approve of - and may even protest against - the ways of The Wolf.  Nonetheless, The Wolf savors the taste of the lamb." ~ Unknown.

 

**** God.

 

Who needs God when you have Friedrich Nietzche and Ayn Rand?  

 

Who needs prayer when you have the unbeatable power of Ubermensch?

 

Ayn Rand helped rewire my brain, so that I could focus on creating a glorious life of sin.  I had to manually unlearn everything my parents taught me.  I couldn't unlearn the fake love that mom gave me, though.  HAha.  So that's all I have for my victims (aka females I seduce, heh-heh-heh...).  

 

Don't worry.  I won't go on a tangent about my deeply sinful sexual exploits that titillate even Satan himself.  Actually, on second thought, something tells me that some you on this site may be fellow perverts, sickos and sinners.  Despicable.  Absolutely despicable.  

 

I should be ashamed of myself, and so should you.  

 

Satan comforted me when the Christians neglected me.  Christians broke my heart and stole my soul.

 

And it doesn't help that you have guys like Pastor Bobby Coy AND Calvary Fort Lauderdale.  

 

Satan was there:  "Gee, it's awfully dark in here.  This is how the Christians show you love, eh?  Interesting... so not giving a **** about you and acting like you don't exist is how they show love?"

 

The more I listened to this voice, the more I felt like it was a spiritual experience, beyond just thoughts firing off in my brain.  I felt deeply connected to this voice.  It felt like the voice knew me, and I knew the voice. It felt like talking to a brother, like my Tyler Durden, my better version of myself.

 

Or, perhaps it is Satan.  Perhaps this was his way of talking to me, and the utter failure of the Christians to live up to their advertisements (the people supposedly emulating the "God of love") opened up the channels of communication.  Kind of like a shark, Satan shows up when spiritual blood is spilled, and a mother fails to love her own son.  And then, like Satan says to Eminem at the end of My Darling:  "Marshall, no one's gonna love you like I do."  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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It’s funny I’ve come to appreciate how a growing number of gay guys aren’t letting Christians determine the religious narrative. This surprised me. I think there are a lot of gay guys like myself who had deeply emotional religious experiences. I just think of how many gay men must have been the writers of the Bible. Leviticus I attribute to the heterosexual men. Psalms, and so called prophetic books to the gays guys. 

 

Ive even come to appreciate that my way of interpreting the Bible heaven and hell and all else was not religious after and it took a lot of time to see that what I was experiencing was my brains amazing ability to translate meaning using the language of religious text that I had available (aka that was forced on me). As I’ve gained coping mechanisms, life experience, grown up etc... and actively taken an interest where I needed to push myself, I’ve been able to see the superstitious mythology that shrouded my sense of self and reality fall away.

 

The only thing I regret is not having had a real parent or someone who offers you guidance through life. I’ve experienced a lot of things before I had the coping mechanisms and psychological framework and endurance to hold the weight of the tasks that life and my brain were being forced to confront. Deconversion is an extraordinary weight. When my brain can carry certain things it mythologizes them or redirects attention, among other things. 

 

This is a lot of pain, pain which forces me sometimes to abridge my aspirations while I focus on smaller things that I often don’t see as important or fulfilling, or that I sometimes see as beneath me. This makes me sad, frustrated at having been robbed by religion. It also makes me impatient sometimes.

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On 4/19/2019 at 2:32 AM, Samuel said:

It’s funny I’ve come to appreciate how a growing number of gay guys aren’t letting Christians determine the religious narrative. This surprised me. I think there are a lot of gay guys like myself who had deeply emotional religious experiences. I just think of how many gay men must have been the writers of the Bible. Leviticus I attribute to the heterosexual men. Psalms, and so called prophetic books to the gays guys. 

 

Ive even come to appreciate that my way of interpreting the Bible heaven and hell and all else was not religious after and it took a lot of time to see that what I was experiencing was my brains amazing ability to translate meaning using the language of religious text that I had available (aka that was forced on me). As I’ve gained coping mechanisms, life experience, grown up etc... and actively taken an interest where I needed to push myself, I’ve been able to see the superstitious mythology that shrouded my sense of self and reality fall away.

 

The only thing I regret is not having had a real parent or someone who offers you guidance through life. I’ve experienced a lot of things before I had the coping mechanisms and psychological framework and endurance to hold the weight of the tasks that life and my brain were being forced to confront. Deconversion is an extraordinary weight. When my brain can carry certain things it mythologizes them or redirects attention, among other things. 

 

This is a lot of pain, pain which forces me sometimes to abridge my aspirations while I focus on smaller things that I often don’t see as important or fulfilling, or that I sometimes see as beneath me. This makes me sad, frustrated at having been robbed by religion. It also makes me impatient sometimes.

You are doing the best you can. That is what I tell myself, over and over and over. 

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On 4/19/2019 at 2:32 AM, Samuel said:

Leviticus I attribute to the heterosexual men. 

 

Ive even come to appreciate that my way of interpreting the Bible heaven and hell and all else was not religious after and it took a lot of time to see that what I was experiencing was my brains amazing ability to translate meaning using the language of religious text that I had available (aka that was forced on me). As I’ve gained coping mechanisms, life experience, grown up etc... and actively taken an interest where I needed to push myself, I’ve been able to see the superstitious mythology that shrouded my sense of self and reality fall away.

 

Deconversion is an extraordinary weight. When my brain can carry certain things it mythologizes them or redirects attention, among other things. 

 

This is a lot of pain, pain which forces me sometimes to abridge my aspirations while I focus on smaller things that I often don’t see as important or fulfilling, or that I sometimes see as beneath me. This makes me sad, frustrated at having been robbed by religion. It also makes me impatient sometimes.

 

I find power in knowing reality itself and developing the power to manipulate reality.

 

"A really intelligent man feels what others only know."  -  Baron de Montesquieu

 

In knowing the truth about Christianity, you not only know - but feel - the absence of the all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful creator that loves you, wants a relationship with you and has a pre-ordained plan for your life.

 

You feel the infinite vacuum that this left.

 

Or, do you feel the opposite - the potential for absolute power, over yourself, over life, over reality...

 

After all, now you have all the freedom on the world to break all of the rules.

 

Why not have some willing sex slaves?  After all, Leviticus spells out just how one should properly treat a slave!

 

Do not abridge your ambitions; unleash them.  Do not let the pain get the best of you.  Do not let them win.  Fuck them.  

 

Fight.  

 

By the alchemy of your neurology, convert your pain into a reason or reasons to pursue a goal or set and series of goals.  Consider these goals - and the planning of and execution of the action steps necessary to accomplish these goals - as waging war.  Make no mistake about it.  When I say fight, I mean declare war against all of the fuckin' bullshit that caused you so much pain.  Be specific.  Trace the pain from actions to nouns:  Who did what... and what the fuck are you going to do about it?

 

Fight, but do not fight on your knees - leave that for the cowards too scared to fight their own battles; leave the mystical groveling to the hypocrites unwilling to practice what they preach, to the self-righteous bible thumpers pontificating about God's word - yet have never read the bible.  

 

For you, fighting on your knees appears to be wasting your time on low level actions beneath you.  

 

Fight - not on your knees - but on your feet.  

 

"Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured?"  Friedrich Nietzsche

 

Don't let Christianity quietly devour you, nibbling away at the one and only life you will ever have.  

 

Success is the best revenge, so out-monster the fuckin' monster.

 

Oh, by the way - Happy "Resurrection Day," a day of celebration and revelry for self-righteous cunts everywhere.  Why not metaphorically and symbolically use this day to end your days of suffering.  

 

Rise up, defeat the religion of death, and in doing so be more "Christ-like" than any fake and phony Christian.

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