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Just now, LogicalFallacy said:

So ahhhh... when animals have sex what is that? And some species mate for life, but others fuck everything in sight.

 

You sure sex isn't just a method of reproduction - one that a few species find so pleasurable they do it all the time?

 

Going back to humans being made in the image of God therefore different to animals, and held to a different standard

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7 minutes ago, Miriam said:

Problem is, you have heard the word of God. This passage is just for people who haven't.

  

How is that a problem, Miriam?  Please do tell. I am so curious to know! You have me on the edge of my seat! .  . . . And getting back to why you are here. You are just curious right? Trying to understand, right? So what questions do you have for for us?

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1 minute ago, freshstart said:

How is that a problem, Miriam?  Please do tell. I am so curious to know! You have me on the edge of my seat! .  . . . And getting back to why you are here. You are just curious right? Trying to understand, right? So what questions do you have for for us? 

It's not a problem for you, it's the problem with your statement. OK - question - is there a transcript or something of the video posted about how history and science de bunks Christianity? Or a website that outlines it all?

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1 hour ago, Miriam said:

 

I will state what I said once more, but in one post so it's less confusing - I'm finding having to scroll up and down pretty annoying myself!

 

Jesus died, once, for sins past present and future, committed by anyone who believes in him.  This requires repentance, not just once, like I said in the verse from Hebrews, because if you go on sinning deliberately then you have rejected God and the sacrifice no longer remains for you, you are outside grace (loaded word, I know :) ). If Jesus hadn't died for all sins, then there would be no forgiveness for sins committed after he died.  1 John 1:8-9 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.    Then 1 John 3:9 No one who is born to God will continue to sin    If you keep sinning without repentance, you are not forgiven 

 

This is all very nice,  but it doesn't do anything to answer the underlying question which I put to you before: by what authority do you claim to know that you have sinned?

 

To claim to know that you have sinned is to claim to know the will of God. Quite a claim. Some extra-scriptural justification would be nice. 

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Just now, disillusioned said:

 

This is all very nice,  but it doesn't do anything to answer the underlying question which I put to you before: by what authority do you claim to know that you have sinned?

 

To claim to know that you have sinned is to claim to know the will of God. Quite a claim. Some extra-scriptural justification would be nice.  

I know the will of God, as much has been laid down in the bible. It convicts me of my sins. If you want me to talk about belief in God, about my faith, but all your statements are based purely on the fact that you do not have faith, there really is no point.  I know I have done wrong things - we all have. Because of my faith, I believe this is in contradiction of God's will, as laid out in the bible, this is sin.  If you didn't want me to talk about it at all, you wouldn't keep asking me questions.

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1 hour ago, Miriam said:

 

Going back to humans being made in the image of God therefore different to animals, and held to a different standard

 

You are using religious dogma to answer LF's questions.  LF's questions are, in essence, rational inquiries, not theological inquiries.  

 

Have you ever tried to address rational inquiries without relying on your religious beliefs?

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Just now, sdelsolray said:

 

You are using religious dogma to answer LF's questions, which, in essence, are rational inquiries. 

 

Have you ever tried to answer questions without relying on your religious beliefs?

 

They are "rational inquiries" which are irrational because you are asking questions about religious beliefs, then not accepting religious beliefs in answer.  I may as well ask you how you know humans are not made in the image of God - yes, you have arguments to support your theories, but they too are based on a belief.  If you want to help, please refer to my question in the Rants forum.

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1 hour ago, Miriam said:

It's not a problem for you, it's the problem with your statement. OK - question - is there a transcript or something of the video posted about how history and science de bunks Christianity? Or a website that outlines it all? 

Not sure what the "problem" was with my statement.

As far as the transcript question,  maybe go ask in the thread where it was posted or ask the person who posted it.

What exactly is it that you want to understand about our beliefs? I thought you were here to ask questions about that?

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10 minutes ago, Miriam said:

 

They are "rational inquiries" which are irrational because you are asking questions about religious beliefs, then not accepting religious beliefs in answer.  I may as well ask you how you know humans are not made in the image of God - yes, you have arguments to support your theories, but they too are based on a belief.  If you want to help, please refer to my question in the Rants forum.

I think it should be pointed out that not accepting religious beliefs as answers is not irrational.  Skeptical, certainly; but skepticism is the rational default to unsubstantiated claims. 

 

It should also be pointed out that the notion that man is not created in the image of god is not based on belief, or "theory" (as the term is employed in the commoner's tongue); but rather based upon emperical data and evidence, from a significant number of scientific disciplines, in support of the Theory (scientific definition) of Evolution, or Speciation Through Natural Selection. 

 

This is not something we "believe".  It is something we "know", insofar as it is possible for us to know anything. 

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14 minutes ago, Miriam said:

 

They are "rational inquiries" which are irrational because you are asking questions about religious beliefs, then not accepting religious beliefs in answer.  I may as well ask you how you know humans are not made in the image of God - yes, you have arguments to support your theories, but they too are based on a belief.  If you want to help, please refer to my question in the Rants forum.

 

Interesting response.  The first sentence is simply wrong.  The second sentence contains a false equivalency.  The third sentence is appreciated, and I will hunt for it, but I will not address it in this post.

 

Let me explain.

 

1)  Your First Sentence.

 

These are the two questions that LF asked:

 

So ahhhh... when animals have sex what is that? And some species mate for life, but others fuck everything in sight.

 

You sure sex isn't just a method of reproduction - one that a few species find so pleasurable they do it all the time?

 

I observe no inquiry into religion whatsoever.  The first sentence of your response to my post was as follows:

 

"[LF's questions]...are irrational because [LF is] asking questions about religious beliefs, then not accepting religious beliefs in answer."

 

Note the error you made.  They are not religious questions.  They are rational inquiries that you chose to answer with religious dogma.  Here is your response toe both the LF's rational inquiries:

 

"Going back to humans being made in the image of God therefore different to animals, and held to a different standard."

 

Note how you responded with your particular religious belief.  You did that, not LF.

 

On a second point, you also claim in your first sentance "[LF's questions] are irrational because [he was] not accepting religious beliefs in [my] answer."  Whether someone accepts your answer to a question does not render the original question irrational.  This is an example of a non sequitur.

 

Your first sentence contains an incorrect fact and a non sequitur fallacy upon which you base your argument that LF's questions are irrational.  Accordingly, that argument is invalid and unsound.

 

2)  Your Second Sentence.

 

Your second sentence in your response to my earlier post is as follows:

 

"I may as well ask you how you know humans are not made in the image of God - yes, you have arguments to support your theories, but they too are based on a belief."

 

I do not, and did not, claim that I "know humans are not made in the image of God."  It is you who claims humans are made in the image of your God.  That being the case, you have the burden of proof to demonstrate the accuracy of your claim.  I have no burden to disprove your mere assertion.  At least that's how things work in rational discourse among coherent adults.  You have attempted to shift the burden of proof.  I reject that attempt and suggest you refrain from doing so in the future.

 

Next, you attempt to equate your religious belief in "Special Creation" with my (presumed) "arguments to support your theories".  I have not yet provided you with any arguments concerning any theory, but I strongly suspect you are referring the the theory of biological evolution.  There is a stark difference between (i) religious faith (belief without empirical evidence with no accepted method/procedure to falsify that faith) and (ii) belief that the theory of biological evolution is the best tentative explanation (subject to built-in falsifiability) of all relevant empirical facts.  They are not equivalent.  You have created a false equivalence in your second sentence.  That sentence is rejected.

 

 

You are new here.  You stated you are here to learn and see others' thoughts and opinions.  Many folks here are rational/critical thinkers.  By now, you have seen a few.  There are many more.  In addition, many folks here are former ministers, well engaged theists, etc.  Some have forgotten more about the Bible that many will ever know.  You are quite a nice person.  You have an excellent opportunity to observe and learn how Ex-Christians think.

 

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2 hours ago, Miriam said:

 

Going back to humans being made in the image of God therefore different to animals, and held to a different standard

 

Well sdelsolray made a great response to this but I'll play your game.

 

So you think we are fundamentally different from animals? "Made in the image of God" you say. Chimps and humans share 98% of DNA. We have similar body structure, facial expressions etc. We mate in somewhat similar fashion. Both species have complex social structures. Perhaps you need to unpack what you mean when you say made in the image of God. Does God have reproductive organs? Does he have sex?

 

And leading back to your claim that "sex is a gift from God". Please explain the fundamental difference between a male and female chimp mating, (Or any animal), and humans mating.

 

1 hour ago, Miriam said:

 

They are "rational inquiries" which are irrational because you are asking questions about religious beliefs, then not accepting religious beliefs in answer.  '

 

No, I'm using practical reason to show why your theology simply does not stack with reality. I'm doing this in the form of questions which you are largely refusing to answer.

 

1 hour ago, Miriam said:

I may as well ask you how you know humans are not made in the image of God - yes, you have arguments to support your theories, but they too are based on a belief.  If you want to help, please refer to my question in the Rants forum.

 

You might want to study the concept of burden of proof. It's not upon the person who doesn't accept a claim to show that it's false, it's upon the person making the claim to show that it's true. How absurd would it be if I said there was a transcendent invisible pink unicorn in my back yard, and to your reply that you didn't believe me I said "You can't prove its not true". That's absurd.

 

There is simply no evidence of a super being that looks like a human, and if you want to go down the path of "image" means spirit or something non physical then there is no evidence of any spirits. What is a spirit? Ever seen one?

 

 

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Sorry, not playing the game. Please re read what you have said, before you jump in next time.  You are a little blind to your own ways of thinking, here.  That is all.

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20 minutes ago, Miriam said:

Sorry, not playing the game. Please re read what you have said, before you jump in next time. 

 

 

 

Well damn. That was short lived. You surely are not going to cut and run so soon? What about 1 Peter 3:15?

 

1 Peter 3:15 New International Version (NIV)

15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

 

Maybe the phrase "play your game" upset you? Don't let it, it was just an expression since you didn't answer my question, but tried to make out I was asking religious questions. Rather than going down sdelsolray's path of pointing the flaw in your method, I responded direct to you. Hence "playing your game" Or perhaps the questions make you uncomfortable? That happens. Think about them and answer honestly.

 

20 minutes ago, Miriam said:

You are a little blind to your own ways of thinking, here.  That is all.

 

 

And you are projecting hard here. Very hard. None here are blind and I'd hope all are open to accepting truth. However, we just haven't seen anything from you but religious dogma. Dogma, I might add, that many of your fellow Christians would disagree with. That's why spouting theology and dogma is not going to have much impact here.

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26 minutes ago, Miriam said:

Sorry, still not.

 

Your choice. You are in the Lion's Den - not everyone's cup of tea.

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On 12/27/2018 at 12:34 PM, Miriam said:

 

If you think random sex is better than a personal relationship with Jesus, I'm sorry but I disagree

 

Jesus never gave me an orgasm. Or never told me he did, anyway.

 

On 12/27/2018 at 12:34 PM, Miriam said:

 

For me, Christianity is joy and the ultimate freedom, the absence of guilt and fear.

 

Miriam 

 

Ultimate freedom from what?

Absence of guilt about what?

Absence of fear about what?

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6 hours ago, freshstart said:

 

Clearly, you've never had spectacular random sex.

I know you're discussing sex, but have you read about the similarities between falling in love and religious devotion/ecstasy? There are real similarities, and Dawkins at least has an interesting take on it from an evolutionary perspective.

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     Well, I just *know* that all good xians obey this mandate from jesus:

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

 

     I guess there's a loophole for this too.  Like not using the literal Greek as in Matthew or a circumlocution like "dad" or "pop" or something?  There's always a way to skirt god's will.  Or just pray it away each time you willfully sin.  It's not like that's causing jesus to be crucified over and over again or anything.

 

          mwc

 

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10 hours ago, Miriam said:

I know the will of God, as much has been laid down in the bible. It convicts me of my sins. If you want me to talk about belief in God, about my faith, but all your statements are based purely on the fact that you do not have faith, there really is no point.  I know I have done wrong things - we all have. Because of my faith, I believe this is in contradiction of God's will, as laid out in the bible, this is sin.  If you didn't want me to talk about it at all, you wouldn't keep asking me questions.

 

This boils down to "I believe". At least that's an honest position to take. I think it's a rather silly position to take,  but it is honest.

 

A major problem I would want to point out with this position is that the Bible clearly requires a great deal of interpretation. So I don't think the appeal to scripture really solves the problem of needing to know God's will. But if you don't want to go down this road,  no worries.

 

Also,  I ask questions for the benefit of new members and those who might still be on the fence about Christianity. I want you to talk about it so that the problems inherent in Christianity will be exposed.

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16 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

So ahhhh... when animals have sex what is that? And some species mate for life, but others fuck everything in sight.

 

You sure sex isn't just a method of reproduction - one that a few species find so pleasurable they do it all the time?

 

 

 

😄

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23 hours ago, Miriam said:

Sorry - OK, you find my beliefs discriminating - that's fine! :)

 

And the quote about the narrow path is correct

 

Which questions do you have for us, Miriam?

Best,

OTRR

 

Edited for spelling.

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5 minutes ago, offtheromanroad said:

Which questions do you have for us, Miriam?

 

I have been asking them, when I get the chance.

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3 minutes ago, Miriam said:

 

I have been asking them, when I get the chance.

Okay... in case you do have more questions, ask away!

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ConsiderTheSource, I just want to say thank you.  As someone who contributes to society in many ways, but who has never quite fit into the standard "female" role, I find it very offensive when someone tells me that I should simply give up on sex altogether --

 

-- because someone else believes that their god disapproves and that I therefore have no right to sexual fulfillment.

 

No, I'm not going to respect that POV.  Not now, not ever.

 

 

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