Margee

Christianity Debunked Using Science and History

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If you are struggling, this video is excellent and well worth the watch. Hope it helps somebody. (hug)

 

P.S. Check out the responses from the christians after you watch this youtube. Christians cannot or will not watch this with an open mind because they do not want to know. 

 

 

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Thanks for posting this Margee!  It’s important to keep basic information like this readily available to people.  While some folks come here after discovering these things, others arrive unable to believe but afraid to disbelieve.  This can be very useful to them in getting over the hump and moving forward.

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16 hours ago, Margee said:

Christians cannot or will not watch this with an open mind because they do not want to know. 

 

Quite true and I encounter this phenomenon on an almost daily basis. 

Is some cases they seem to be chewing on what information they DID listen to and, as for me, perhaps this chewing will continue until it begins to sink in.

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They will go to great lengths to argue that no, Jesus is totally different from all previous religious deities. 

 

I like Herodotus' explanation for the resurrection of Zalmoxis: he built a secret apartment underground and lived there for three years before emerging and announcing that he had returned from the dead.

 

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As much as I despise religion, I understand a lot more now why people literally refuse to look at any evidence that there might not be any god who has some sort of plan for one's life. We just lost a little girl in our community who was 4 years old. She let go of her mom's hand during a Santa Claus parade and ran over to the float, then fell under it and was run over by it and killed. It caused trauma for a lot of people who witnessed it, including the mom and dad. The hundreds of comments show me why people cannot or will not give up the belief. Everyone is reassuring the mother and father that she is now one of gods' angels and they will meet again someday. And I suppose that this would be one of the top reasons for people to continue believing. It is their only reasoning for why there is so much suffering on this earth. My heart breaks for anyone on this earth who suffers so I find it really hard to talk people out of the belief. I know it brings comfort to a certain degree. So most believers wouldn't even watch this because they would not want to know (or learn) of any kind of this information..

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10 hours ago, Margee said:

The hundreds of comments show me why people cannot or will not give up the belief. Everyone is reassuring the mother and father that she is now one of gods' angels and they will meet again someday. And I suppose that this would be one of the top reasons for people to continue believing. It is their only reasoning for why there is so much suffering on this earth.

 

That's what others say. But what do you think the parents are really facing now in their own minds? Why in the hell would a god allow such a thing? Allow a 4 year old and her parents to endure the horror, absolute horror of watching her run out and get run over by a parade float? The answer, so that she can be an angel in heaven waiting a life time to be seen again? 

 

That didn't wash at all with me when my sister drown in our back yard pool. I remember the same type of church people saying the same nonsensical things, which only ended up forcing my consciousness to face off with death straight away. After thinking about it over and over, it became glaringly obvious that there's no god choosing between helping some and not others looking down from afar. And just as obvious that seeing dead loved one's again in resurrected bodies is the stuff of fairy tales. It can take something like this to slap you around and make you focus on the reality of the situation. When it doesn't hit close to home it's easy to stay out of focus and just brush it off, as the church people leaving such comments are doing. 

 

 

 

 

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I find that often, people who disagree with Richard Carrier spend a lot of time on personal attacks on Richard Carrier.

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14 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

That's what others say. But what do you think the parents are really facing now in their own minds? Why in the hell would a god allow such a thing? Allow a 4 year old and her parents to endure the horror, absolute horror of watching her run out and get run over by a parade float? The answer, so that she can be an angel in heaven waiting a life time to be seen again? 

 

That didn't wash at all with me when my sister drown in our back yard pool. I remember the same type of church people saying the same nonsensical things, which only ended up forcing my consciousness to face off with death straight away. After thinking about it over and over, it became glaringly obvious that there's no god choosing between helping some and not others looking down from afar. And just as obvious that seeing dead loved one's again in resurrected bodies is the stuff of fairy tales. It can take something like this to slap you around and make you focus on the reality of the situation. When it doesn't hit close to home it's easy to stay out of focus and just brush it off, as the church people leaving such comments are doing. 

 

 

 

 

I think some people simply don't come around to questioning "how could God let this happen?" They know it's a dangerous question therefore actively avoid it. Some are also simply so brainwashed that they will not question gods will, good or bad, because they've been indoctrinated to such a level about doubt and sin and even going there. I was one of the latter and it took me a good long while to get to that point. 

I also think this choice has something to do with personality. Those high in the feelings/emotional side of things may be more likely to cling to the comfort of heaven and actively push away doubts because they are aware of the emotional devastation that could occur, particularly if they have suffered trauma such as Margie discusses. 

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@Margee you're from down east? The friendliest people live there, imo. I saw the headline in the news about the parade and didn't even have the stomach to read the article, so tragic. 

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9 hours ago, ficino said:

I find that often, people who disagree with Richard Carrier spend a lot of time on personal attacks on Richard Carrier.

 

There's a guy on the Internet, Tim O'Neill, who does that as a full-time job. He joined this forum once just to bash Carrier, because somebody posted a video. 

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14 minutes ago, Blood said:

 

There's a guy on the Internet, Tim O'Neill, who does that as a full-time job. He joined this forum once just to bash Carrier, because somebody posted a video. 

 

https://strangenotions.com/author/tim-oneill/

 

If this is the guy, I've crossed paths with him before on other boards arguing about Jesus Mythicism. Did he go by his name on this forum? 

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I think he did use his real name. This was a couple years back. 

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I think he has had a blog rivalry going with Neil Godfrey at the vridar blog. 

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On 11/29/2018 at 5:46 PM, Blood said:

 

There's a guy on the Internet, Tim O'Neill, who does that as a full-time job. He joined this forum once just to bash Carrier, because somebody posted a video. 

Yes, Tim O'Neill is an ancient history hobbyist, as far as I can see. He spends a lot of time bashing ancient history "hobbyists."

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My speakers don't work - is this written down in an article or something somewhere?

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12 hours ago, Miriam said:

My speakers don't work - is this written down in an article or something somewhere?

Perhaps you should pray about it.  I'm sure if jesus can make the deaf hear, he can probably sort out your speakers... IF it's his will for you to watch the video.

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It seems you (plural) are upset that Christians won't listen, so my question: Is it your will I watch this video, or be able to read the points made?

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31 minutes ago, Miriam said:

It seems you (plural) are upset that Christians won't listen, so my question: Is it your will I watch this video, or be able to read the points made?

It is neither my will nor not my will.  You should think for yourself and make your own decision.

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I can't make my own decision if you don't tell me what I am supposed to be deciding about - that's why I'd like to read the points made! :) 

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10 hours ago, Miriam said:

I can't make my own decision if you don't tell me what I am supposed to be deciding about - that's why I'd like to read the points made! :) 

You can make a decision concerning watching the video, though.  Should you choose to watch it, you could make further decisions concerning how to get around the issue with your speakers.  For example, your local library will likely have internet capable computers with functional speakers; you could watch it there.  Your local Best Buy would, no doubt, sell you a new set of speakers.  You might even have a Geek Squad somewhere nearby who could fix your speakers.  But it all starts with you determining if you have the courage to watch the video.  If you really want to watch it, you'll make a way; if not, you'll make an excuse.

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Alright, this is getting a little bit silly! :)

If you actually wanted me to know the argument, you'd want to make it easier rather than demanding I walk to the library or fork out money for speakers.

 

I think we should just stop here!

 

Miriam

 

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43 minutes ago, Miriam said:

Alright, this is getting a little bit silly! :)

If you actually wanted me to know the argument, you'd want to make it easier rather than demanding I walk to the library or fork out money for speakers.

 

I think we should just stop here!

 

Miriam

 

Walking to the library is demanding? Yes I agree the conversation really is silly. Someone posted a video with information, therefore if you wanted to actually know what was it in, you'd find a way to view it. Laying blame on people here for "not wanting to make it easier for you to watch" is beyond silly.

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Not my point - if I posted a video I really wanted you to understand, and you couldn't hear it, I would go out of my way to find the points for you.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Miriam said:

Not my point - if I posted a video I really wanted you to understand, and you couldn't hear it, I would go out of my way to find the points for you.

 

 

 

This is called 'spoon feeding', something not at all uncommon across the web concerning both christians + relevant information (largely from videos).

 

I've been seeing apologetic posters use this tactic for well over the last decade, especially where it concerns things like videos to do with the mythical jesus debates. This actually went so far as one christian "coming out" (completely out of the blue as it were) as blind and unable to read the script of a relevant video. When asked how in the world he had been reading everything else prior to this new revelation, he floundered around. 

 

None of this may apply to what you're doing here, Miriam, but it does apply to the fact that demanding to be spoon fed information by christian posters is a thing, a very big thing on the web. So it makes sense to take that into consideration when either (1) taking the route of claiming you can't watch something and (2) acting surprised if other members don't knee jerk to spoon feed a christian poster under these kind of circumstances. 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Miriam said:

Not my point - if I posted a video I really wanted you to understand, and you couldn't hear it, I would go out of my way to find the points for you.

 

 

Perhaps that is because you have an agenda here and we don't.  I neither want nor need for you to accept my view of life; but, per The Great Commission, it is imperative that you "make disciples", "let your light shine", "bear witness."  In other words, whether you're willing to admit it or not, you're here to preach and try to win souls.  I'm not sure why you have such a hard time admitting that, given that jesus said if you were ashamed of him, he'd be ashamed of you.

 

But the present fact is, you want something from us; we want nothing from you.  If you read my testimony with any sincerity, then you know it was a brutal, four-year travail.  It was the destruction of my entire life.  I would not wish that experience on anyone; and, I think most of the others here feel the same way.  We have adopted and embraced the philosophy of "live and let live."  Not many here would actively seek to deconvert you; for most had experiences as calamitous as mine.

 

Remember that you came to our website.  Although we welcome you here, you should keep in mind that we did not invite you, we did not come to you, we did not actively seek you out.  You came to us.  And we are not responsible for you.  You are.  If you feel that certain members, myself included, have been rude to you, check your own actions and take the responsibility of owning them.  If you feel that some of us, myself included, have been more abrasive than necessary, check your own motivations and take responsibility for them.

 

You will find that most people here, myself included, will literally do anything within our power for anyone who needs our help.  But we have also learned that we have to take responsibility for our own lives, actions, words, thoughts, and deeds; because there is not a magical sky-daddy to offer us absolution.  We expect the same from those who come in to visit with us. 

 

With the proper approach, you will find many people here, myself included, who are more than willing to help you, answer your questions, offer our perspective, and even engage in sincere and rational debate with you.  But you are responsible for your presence here.  If you make a claim, you are responsible for supporting that claim with evidence and sound reasoning.  If someone makes a point, or counterpoint, you are responsible for accurately and honestly representing that point in your rebuttal.  If you intimate that someone made a certain statement, you are responsible for providing the quote.

 

Personally, I still have doubts about your sincerity here.  But I'm willing to help you out as much as I can, while you're here.  These pointers I'm offering you now will help you to be taken more seriously by the good folks here, myself included.

 

A modicum of humility wouldn't hurt you, or me, for that matter.  You don't always need to have an answer for everything (again, neither do I).  It's okay for us both to say we don't know.  But, if you're genuinely here looking for our answers, quit saying you already know how we think or what we believe.  You really don't.  You've never been an ex-christian; but every single one of us has been a christian.  

 

I hope this helps,

TRP

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