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Wertbag

NZ to hold a referedum on important subjects

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Finally something I've wished for looks to be coming to be: http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/triple-header-referendum-looms-for-2020/ar-BBQ60z6?ocid=ientp

A referendum at or before the next election in 2020 where the subjects of recreational marijuana use, euthanasia and the MMP style of government will be discussed and voted upon.  I'd love for this to be a more regular feature, giving more important subjects the chance to be reviewed and considered (medical marijuana being the first that leapt to mind when they only mention recreational at the moment).

We still need to see how the questions are worded, and whether the referendum would be binding for the government. 

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15 minutes ago, Wertbag said:

Finally something I've wished for looks to be coming to be: http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/triple-header-referendum-looms-for-2020/ar-BBQ60z6?ocid=ientp

A referendum at or before the next election in 2020 where the subjects of recreational marijuana use, euthanasia and the MMP style of government will be discussed and voted upon.  I'd love for this to be a more regular feature, giving more important subjects the chance to be reviewed and considered (medical marijuana being the first that leapt to mind when they only mention recreational at the moment).

We still need to see how the questions are worded, and whether the referendum would be binding for the government. 

 

Yes. I'd be interested in your position on each. The only one I haven't spent prior time thinking about is MMP - it will depend entirely on what style of government they offer as alternatives. I know the Nat's want to go back to FPP for obvious reasons. At 50.01% you rule the world :D  

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1 hour ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Yes. I'd be interested in your position on each. The only one I haven't spent prior time thinking about is MMP - it will depend entirely on what style of government they offer as alternatives. I know the Nat's want to go back to FPP for obvious reasons. At 50.01% you rule the world :D  

I'm of the opinion that MMP was selected purely because people wanted change.  MMP wasn't widely understood and the twisted mess we sometimes see is a result most people didn't see coming.  I don't know that the referendum will be to choose the alternative, it is more likely "Would you want to change away from MMP?" and if they get enough votes then there would be a second to consider the options.  I would love to get away from MMP and don't think we should go back to FPP.  I don't think we will see a radical change, it will still be a variation on the current ideas to some degree.

 

Recreational marijuana...  I have very mixed feelings about this.  I had a friend of a friend who was head girl of her school, straight A student, who wanted to be a lawyer.  She met a stoner and fell for his bad boy ways.  He was a no motivation drop kick who smoked weed like he needed it to live.  Her grades plunged, her hygiene degenerated, her dream changed from lawyer to tattoo artist, she started fighting with her family and ended up kicked out of home.  Prior to weed and meeting the drop kick she was a motivated beautiful girl, after it she was a surly stoner with no vision passed her next party.

I know people like that are the exception rather than the norm, but I can't help but see her life go off the rails whenever the subject comes up.  If it is a motivation killer, then it will reduce education, achievement and increase the welfare state.  I wouldn't mind people growing a single plant for their own use, but I can't get behind a full retail roll out.

 

 Euthanasia is an easy one, I would support that completely.  It has to be well written and have the obvious safe guards, but allowing someone with a terminal illness to make the decision to stop their suffering is the humane thing to do.  As long as it is a physical, untreatable and quality of life destroying disease, then there is nothing to be gained by forcing someone to die in pain. 

 

Where would you stand on these issues?

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Lord Jesus,

 

Look at these two talking. Probably white people that aren't native to the country they are in, and acting as if they own the place.

 

Forgive them, for they know not what they do, and the next time they criticize the United States please send them to Hell.

 

In Your Middle Eastern Name that has been Anglicized, 

 

Amen 

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20 minutes ago, duderonomy said:

Lord Jesus,

 

Look at these two talking. Probably white people that aren't native to the country they are in, and acting as if they own the place.

 

Forgive them, for they know not what they do, and the next time they criticize the United States please send them to Hell.

 

In Your Middle Eastern Name that has been Anglicized, 

 

Amen 

 

Dude - its OUR country. Fuck out of it. Your opinion doesn't count cause you are not from here.

 

Ok my hostile alter ego is over now - all comments on subjects welcome :P :D 

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2 hours ago, duderonomy said:

In Your Middle Eastern Name that has been Anglicized, 

 

 

That is just awesome right there. 

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Wow, change sure is easy to do in imaginary countries.

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2 hours ago, ContraBardus said:

Wow, change sure is easy to do in imaginary countries.

Imaginary? I'll have you know that from the Shire to Gondor we have a proud history of unity! 

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5 hours ago, Wertbag said:

I'm of the opinion that MMP was selected purely because people wanted change.  MMP wasn't widely understood and the twisted mess we sometimes see is a result most people didn't see coming.  I don't know that the referendum will be to choose the alternative, it is more likely "Would you want to change away from MMP?" and if they get enough votes then there would be a second to consider the options.  I would love to get away from MMP and don't think we should go back to FPP.  I don't think we will see a radical change, it will still be a variation on the current ideas to some degree.

 

I'm not sure why MMP was selected. I wasn't old enough then to gauge the mood of the nation. However I agree that it probably wasn't widely understood because people still don't understand the concept. For example last election people (Mainly Nat's) were screaming about how undemocratic the elections were because of the way the coalition formed. People seem to think that the biggest party must rule which is a fundamental lack of understanding at how MMP works.

 

My problem with MMP here at the moment is that people still think we are a two party nation, so you have two huge parties, and a lot of votes on smaller parties are wasted because of the 5% threshold. Now we don't want to have no threshold or else parliament becomes too inflated, but something in the realms of 2-3% I think is fair.

 

I'm also open to other options, except like you I wouldn't want to go back to MMP.

 

5 hours ago, Wertbag said:

Recreational marijuana...  I have very mixed feelings about this.  I had a friend of a friend who was head girl of her school, straight A student, who wanted to be a lawyer.  She met a stoner and fell for his bad boy ways.  He was a no motivation drop kick who smoked weed like he needed it to live.  Her grades plunged, her hygiene degenerated, her dream changed from lawyer to tattoo artist, she started fighting with her family and ended up kicked out of home.  Prior to weed and meeting the drop kick she was a motivated beautiful girl, after it she was a surly stoner with no vision passed her next party.

I know people like that are the exception rather than the norm, but I can't help but see her life go off the rails whenever the subject comes up.  If it is a motivation killer, then it will reduce education, achievement and increase the welfare state.  I wouldn't mind people growing a single plant for their own use, but I can't get behind a full retail roll out.

 

So I have no direct experience with it. I was raised a fundy, never got anywhere near drugs, and personally don't see any point in them. I also think they can cause great harm. In saying that a lot of marijuana use doesn't have a major detrimental impact from what I understand. I think there is an argument to be made for legalizing and regulating it to stop the black market aspect and to reduce strain on the prison system. Unlike P it doesn't seem to make people off the wall violent so if you want to spend your life stoned so be it. However drug use comes with responsibility. You don't go near cars or machinery if you are using as it messes with concentration. So if you want to hold your job down you might want to consider not using - that's my take on that. 

 

As far as medical use - fully support it. If there are clear advantages that stops suffering then there is no reason not to have it legal and available for medical use.

 

5 hours ago, Wertbag said:

Euthanasia is an easy one, I would support that completely.  It has to be well written and have the obvious safe guards, but allowing someone with a terminal illness to make the decision to stop their suffering is the humane thing to do.  As long as it is a physical, untreatable and quality of life destroying disease, then there is nothing to be gained by forcing someone to die in pain. 

 

I'm totally with you here so not much more for me to add.

 

What really pisses me off is when some religious person says only God can decide when people die. They can go fuck themselves!

 

As long as there are safeguards that prevents unscrupulous family members from getting an elderly person knocked off then it should be fully supported. (I.e. make sure that undue influence is not involved) I actually find this an easier issue than abortion to deal with, even though both are to do with ending life.

 

 

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On 11/25/2018 at 10:40 PM, Wertbag said:

I'm of the opinion that MMP was selected purely because people wanted change.  MMP wasn't widely understood and the twisted mess we sometimes see is a result most people didn't see coming.  I don't know that the referendum will be to choose the alternative, it is more likely "Would you want to change away from MMP?" and if they get enough votes then there would be a second to consider the options.  I would love to get away from MMP and don't think we should go back to FPP.  I don't think we will see a radical change, it will still be a variation on the current ideas to some degree.

 

 

23 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

I'm not sure why MMP was selected. I wasn't old enough then to gauge the mood of the nation...

 

How the average voter decides how to vote on referendums...

 

 

This is a universal constant.

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On 11/25/2018 at 11:25 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Dude - its OUR country. Fuck out of it. Your opinion doesn't count cause you are not from here.

 

Ok my hostile alter ego is over now - all comments on subjects welcome :P :D 

 

Remember this guy?   :rolleyes:

 

 

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3 hours ago, duderonomy said:

 

Remember this guy?   :rolleyes:

 

 

You mean happy roll eyes instead of sarcastic roll eyes? Yep I remember.

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@Wertbag An article on this general issue in the NZ Herald today

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12166957

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On 11/27/2018 at 3:41 AM, LogicalFallacy said:

 

You mean happy roll eyes instead of sarcastic roll eyes? Yep I remember.

 

Oh Logi! You remember! Awwww...

 

I hope things work out for the good on your two little islands. We here in the rest of the world are holding our breath and our prayers and thoughts are with you as you decide what to do with pot and decide how to deal with the semi-annual influx of dead whales on your beaches. 

These are serious subjects! You guys have big work to do!

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3 hours ago, duderonomy said:

 

Oh Logi! You remember! Awwww...

 

I hope things work out for the good on your two little islands. We here in the rest of the world are holding our breath and our prayers and thoughts are with you as you decide what to do with pot and decide how to deal with the semi-annual influx of dead whales on your beaches. 

These are serious subjects! You guys have big work to do!

 

Three islands, (Stewart Island) plus technically the Chatham Islands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Islands

 

Don't they teach you geography over there?

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On 11/29/2018 at 4:43 AM, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Three islands, (Stewart Island) plus technically the Chatham Islands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Islands

 

Don't they teach you geography over there?

 

If they taught us geography, we would know that "America" is divided into north and south, and has a few more countries than just the United States.

So please pardon our ignorance and hubris, and I personally  apologize for not recognizing the other two floating turds that you lay claim to.    :rolleyes:

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53 minutes ago, duderonomy said:

 

If they taught us geography, we would know that "America" is divided into north and south, and has a few more countries than just the United States.

So please pardon our ignorance and hubris, and I personally  apologize for not recognizing the other two floating turds that you lay claim to.    :rolleyes:

Aye this is true. You notice I don't refer to America but the US when discussing the US? Except when I refer to "You Americans" as that's what you like to call yourselves despite the fact that you have more in common with me than you do a Chilean for example. 

 

Your apology is accepted. :D

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