QUESTIONS FOR CHRISTIAN APOLOGISTS

[◊ Weezer ◊]

First let me say I understand where you are coming from.  I was at one time in your shoes.  But my curious mind kept telling me some things just were not adding up.  And from an early age, when others were praying for more faith, I was praying for wisdom.

 

1.  Have you ever considered that if you had been born in a different family, in a different country, with a predominantly different faith, and you had a loving family devout to their faith, and you had never questioned the faith, or seriously studied the history of religions and Gods in general, you might be defending that faith as much or more than you are defending Christianity?

2.  When you pray, do you pray for more faith in the God, Jesus, or church you presently believe in?

3.  Or do you pray for an open and objective mind, wisdom, and that God will help you discern truth as you look among ALL the alternatives?

4.  How do you know you have the truth, if you haven't looked at all the available information about Gods, religions, and other alternatives?

 

I challenge you to do so.  Remember the statement Jesus reportedly made?  "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

 

5.  Final question.  Do you have enough faith in "Jesus" statement to search for truth, and follow it where ever it leads you?  And that includes looking for information outside what your church provides.  Remember that most people's faith is grounded on assumptions, made by their families, churchs, and society, that comes from ancient information, and has been passed down for generations by mortal men.  And western Christianity was passed on to us by the Catholic church, who decided what went into the New Testament as they were killing off their competition, and who had a vested interest in what it said.  It didn't come directly from God (if there is one) and is not an objective search for truth.

 

I hope you will give this some serious consideration.  And answer the questions if you wish to do so.

[Jesus]

1. No. Christ pre-destined me to live here. All those who do not know Christ are vessels of dishonor as Paul told us in the Bible. 

 

2. I pray for the lost souls of all those going to hell who don’t know Jesus Christ. 

 

3. Jesus said He is the truth so no I don’t pray with an open mind for truth. I’ve already got the truth. 

 

4. As I just stated, Jesus said he was the truth. What more do I need to know?

 

5. I have all the faith in the world in Jesus statement to be true. He-is-the-truth. Why would I go outside the church for answers to the bible or my faith? We know as Christians that we are called to come out and be “separate” from the world. So no I’m not going to seek worldly counsel on the bible

or my faith. I might as well ask Satan for advice while I’m at it. 

 

 

[Jeff]

Edited: sorry thought this was a serious reply by a believer

[◊ Weezer ◊]

On 1/2/2019 at 12:40 PM, Jeff said:

Edited: sorry thought this was a serious reply by a believer

 

So did I until I read his personal info. 

[R. S. Martin]

On 12/3/2018 at 9:36 PM, Weezer said:

3.  Or do you pray for an open and objective mind, wisdom, and that God will help you discern truth as you look among ALL the alternatives?

 

Not a Christian apologist here. Atheist with a Masters Degree in Theology, to be precise. 

 

I read the other responses. The one about the truth really hit home. I'm not the only one in my family who left the traditional horse and buggy community. Two of my sisters left, too, so I thought they might be more open-minded. I showed them Ken R. Miller's DVD Evolution: Fossils, Genes, and Mousetraps (https://www.hhmi.org/order-materials/holiday-lecture/evolution-fossils-genes-and-mousetraps), which is a simple scientific introduction for Christian high school students on what evolution is and how it works. Since we were schooled in a church school with only eight grades with basically zero science, I figured my sisters might benefit from this simple introduction. They are evangelical Christians now, so I figured an intro that allowed for belief in God might be helpful. I have also tried talking to my sisters about other things.

 

One day, I got this response: I have the truth. I don't know why I keep looking elsewhere.

 

I was dumbfounded at such a blatantly narrow-minded comment. She made it with such conviction, with such disgust at the thought of acquiring more worldly knowledge. 

 

I think her response qualifies as an apologist's answer because she is considered (or considers herself--I'm not sure which) some kind of minister or preacher in the group she associates with. 

[Joshpantera]

Not too many apologists around these days, unless they're lurking around. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

1 hour ago, Joshpantera said:

Not too many apologists around these days, unless they're lurking around. 

 

You may be right.  They may avoid forums like this.

 

2 hours ago, R. S. Martin said:

I was dumbfounded at such a blatantly narrow-minded comment. She made it with such conviction, with such disgust at the thought of acquiring more worldly knowledge. 

 

I can identify with your being dumbfounded.  I graduated from a christian college with degrees in psychology and sociology,  and later got a degree in clinical social work.  Education, life experiences and logical thinking brought up questions, and I started a years long study of religions and gods.  I started writing about my religious experience and what I was learning, and it eventually became an essay.  My wife knew I was spending multiple hours at it, but never showed an interest.  She kept attending church for about a year after I quit, but she eventually quit.  Says she misses going, but doesn't want to go alone.  She does'nt seem to be worried about an afterlife, and doesn't understand why, but says not going just doesn't feel right.  But She won't discuss it any further than that, and will not read my essay that basically describes step by step how and why I made the decisions I have made.

 

 It just occurred to me that I am making a confession here for the first time.  For me it is a slap in the face to totally ignore something I have devoted part of my life to, and feel like it is an important discovery.  But she will not even look at it.  She, some in her family, and some in my family think I have a "screw loose".  They are friendly, but it is evident they simply are tolerating me.  I am lucky my sister went down a similar path as myself, and came to the same conclusion as I.

 

So here we are.  We believe they, and much of the world is in denial.  They literally block out what we are talking about. And they think we have a screw loose.  Sometimes to me, this seems like a problem of epic proportions, for which there is no answer.

 

I had no intention to write all the above, but it just started flowing.  Thanks for listening.  Are there others having similar thoughts?

 

 

[R. S. Martin]

4 minutes ago, Weezer said:

 

You may be right.  They may avoid forums like this.

 

 

I can identify with your being dumbfounded.  I graduated from a christian college with degrees in psychology and sociology,  and later got a degree in clinical social work.  Education, life experiences and logical thinking brought up questions, and I started a years long study of religions and gods.  I started writing about my religious experience and what I was learning, and it eventually became an essay.  My wife knew I was spending multiple hours at it, but never showed an interest.  She kept attending church for about a year after I quit, but she eventually quit.  Says she misses going, but doesn't want to go alone.  She does'nt seem to be worried about an afterlife, and doesn't understand why, but says not going just doesn't feel right.  But She won't discuss it any further than that, and will not read my essay that basically describes step by step how and why I made the decisions I have made.

 

 It just occurred to me that I am making a confession here for the first time.  For me it is a slap in the face to totally ignore something I have devoted part of my life to, and feel like it is an important discovery.  But she will not even look at it.  She, some in her family, and some in my family think I have a "screw loose".  They are friendly, but it is evident they simply are tolerating me.  I am lucky my sister went down a similar path as myself, and came to the same conclusion as I.

 

So here we are.  We believe they, and much of the world is in denial.  They literally block out what we are talking about. And they think we have a screw loose.  Sometimes to me, this seems like a problem of epic proportions, for which there is no answer.

 

I had no intention to write all the above, but it just started flowing.  Thanks for listening.  Are there others having similar thoughts?

 

 

 

Your story sounds very similar to mine. The others "know" I have a screw loose, maybe a couple more than one. They are forever strategizing on how to bring me back to where they can manipulate me to be what I "should" be. I've basically distanced myself so far from my bio family by now for the sake of my own well-being that they find it hard to simply tolerate me--I'm too far away. But that was the case for many decades. When I moved to a new address two years ago, I refused to give it to them. I also set other definite boundaries because I could no longer tolerate their "mere tolerating" attitude. I should add that much of this goes way back, long before I deconverted. It's a negative family dynamic that only got worse when I left the faith. You may never have to take the drastic measures I did.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

R.S., after posting, I clicked on "Sarah Bowman Answers."  It occured to me that you were probably Mennonite.   The last church my wife and I attended together, and she attended afterward, was Mennonite Brethren.  We still contribute to their Central Committee ministry.

[R. S. Martin]

Horse and buggy Mennonite for the first forty years of my life. Mennonite Brethren is a "car" Mennonite denomination that has all the modern technology but is fundamentalist in theology if I'm not mistaken. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

14 minutes ago, R. S. Martin said:

 

 You may never have to take the drastic measures I did.

 

No, I won't.  But we live near an Amish community, I have worked with some of them, and I understand some of their tactics.  Compared to those, my situation is mild.  You have great courage.

[buffettphan]

12 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

Not too many apologists around these days, unless they're lurking around. 

 

Ah....but a new one has arrived.    Perhaps @Christforums will grace us with his replies. 

 

I will move this thread to the Lion's Den since that's where Christians may answer/proselytize/debate.  Have fun.