I am me and that's enough.

[jupiter789]

Hi all!

 

Third times the charm I suppose! I've lurked about in the shadows for awhile now, but this post is my first.  I would've written a wholly unfuckingholy diatribe the night I first signed up, so it may be a good thing that you have to wait for them to verify your membership.  The next time I sat down to write this post, I burst into tears.  So, third time around, it's still a bit surreal to be here.  My de-conversion from Christianity didn't happen overnight.  It was more like a stepping down of levels.  I was raised by fundamentalist Christians.  They aren't as conservative and awful as some, but I was ridiculously sheltered.  They sent me to Christian schools - except we moved to a smallish town when I was in Middle School, and I got to go to public school there.  I also went to public school my senior year of high school - too much bullying and bullshit and even my parents figured it was best not to send me back to the protestant hell school I attended the last three years.  I would've set the damn bathroom on fire to get expelled, and I think my Dad knew I wasn't bluffing.  Anyhow, fundie high school to local college I went.  My Dad threw a shit fit when I wanted to go away to school, and insisted I live at home.  He won.  They had not prepared me to fend for myself, so I was helpless at that age to do any different.  Not to mention, I was terrified of being thrown out of my family.  It was the go to threat, along with - you don't own anything of your own.  It took me three different tries and about a decade to earn my bachelor's degree.  Go Mom and Dad, that one worked out really well!!!  Meh, I have a BA with an emphasis in History ---- which leads me to how my whole belief structure completely fell apart embarrassingly recently.  It's OK - that's the best part of my story if you ask me!  Now I'm mostly free.

 

I used to joke that the worst mistake my Dad made was letting me learn how to read.  Then he let me loose with a library card of my own in a decently sized public library.  I read all sorts of books that I hid with a sort of anxiety that still haunts me today.  I gathered information.  I started examining all the things that didn't add up.  I realized I was completely OK with knowing the Bible is absolutely not infallible.  I honestly can't believe anybody can get themselves to believe that horseshit.  It's utterly astounding to me.  I mean, not everyone I know is stupid - right? I decided that Paul must be the anti-Christ because he completely fucks up the NT.  If it really came down to blows, I could stand by my belief against my family that the Bible has been  completely altered by man.  See where this is going.  I know some of you do.  

 

Fast forward to a few months ago.  I don't know why it took me so long to really examine this part of the fallacy.  Jesus isn't fucking real.  Uh, neither is Moses for that part.  But, no Jesus never existed.  I've read all sorts of different baloney accounts of Jeshua, Joshua, Isha, Ishua, passages that hint that Jesus could've studied Buddhism - where did he go for all those missing years. after all? Well, there are no missing years because he never fucking existed.  All of this "historicity" of Jesus has been lies upon fabricated lies.  The more you look into it, the more it completely falls to pieces!!!!!! HE ISN'T REAL!!!!  

 

So, Jesus isn't real.  Hell was created by man (I was already almost at that belief, but knocking Jesus out of the picture - yeah, they can take their hell and just shove it right up their.....)

 

All of it was designed for social control.  All of it! Yeah, here's why it may have been a good thing that I didn't get to post the night I signed up.  Sorry for all the cursing.  I just can't quite get over how angry I really am.  I mean I'm pissed off on a deeply betrayed level.  I do not know how you move on from this.  I've actually been flipping off churches as I pass them, and I live in the Midwest - they are everywhere.  The best part of my story, though(sarcasm), is if I so much as hint to my fundamentalist family that I don't think Jesus and hell exist - they will intervention me until they have to cut me off.  I will never go back to such ignorance, and I don't see them relinquishing theirs.  This part is incredibly hard for me.  I have 6 (will be 7) nieces and nephews.  I have to stay in the family long enough to help them.  My biggest fear is that one of these poor kids will be gay.  I identify as bisexual.  Oh yeah, that's another one that I'd rather never come out.  However, I'd rather my family know about my bisexuality than that I don't think Jesus and hell are real.  I am quite serious about that, again, I am much more comfortable arguing that the Bible has been altered - not completely made up!  I'm not ready to give up my family either!  I feel they will take that choice away from me if I am not careful.  As sick as it is, one of the reasons I haven't been in any hurry to have kids (maybe ever) is that I can't have them influencing my kid!!!!  So how do you cope.  How do you get over the anger?  

 

I realized recently that I can stop being angry and still disagree with everything they stand for.  I will never condone such a terrible religion ever again.  I'm trying to let go of the anger, but man, I just turned 38.  I want the lost time back.  I want to be raised by a different family that wouldn't have pushed such ridiculous fucking nonsense!  I'm a chic!  What they call a conservative upbringing, I now loudly decry as repression, repression, repression!!!!! I know none of us get to go back and redo anything.  I have to accept that fact.  However, I will look to the future now in a whole new way.  Don't get me wrong, it is so freeing, so exhilarating!  I do still believe in God.  I guess now I am my own religion.  I believe the worst thing Man ever did was to personify God.  God is God is God is God.  How dare we make God into well what we have!  In all actuality, I believe it is God telling me not to be angry with those who personify God in such terrible ways.  God is love - hey that one's actually true.  But God's love doesn't look anything like the Christian dream of God's love.  God just is.  God is everything - by that line of thinking we are Gods or at least extensions of God because God is everything.  We are all part of one great big whole.  It doesn't matter if there is any sort of afterlife.  We didn't exist, then we did, then we don't.  But others still will until, I don't know, Black Hole Sun or the universe shrinks in on itself (that was my attempt to site a couple of theories I definitely do not really understand - Physics is fascinating, but really not my subject.)  So it is OK that for now I just fucking am.  I am, I am, I am - yeah there may be some nuggets of truth scattered throughout the Bible.  My Dad who self identifies as a prophet, (oh yes, he's one of those) said something in a youth group session years ago that he doesn't remember saying, but I will never forget.  He said "what's the best way to hide the truth, chop it up in little bits and scatter it across the world."  He swears he never said that.  I'll swear, that's what I heard until I die.  It doesn't matter.  I heard what I needed to hear.  

 

Even though I do still believe in God, I have been watching all of the skeptic and atheist youtube videos that I can.  I really really like AronRa.  He is a personal hero to me at this point, and I would love to talk to him in person.  I never would've guessed that someone who identifies as an atheist could bring me more peace and comfort than any of the supposed "holy" men that I have listened to over the years.  He is an incredible person, and I am deeply grateful for what he brings to our world.  We need more people to be so brave.  I know there are others I have been watching, reading lately, but I feel I've ranted on and on enough.  

 

Thank you for this community.  I hope to gather myself enough over time to engage in reasoned conversation with you all.  Again, thanks for reading my rant.  I'd say you have no idea how much I've needed a place to vent some of this, but I know that a lot of you do.  And there I go tearing up again.  Take care ya'll.  

 

Peace

[older]

Welcome, Jupiter. We hope you'll join in the discussions and feel free to blow off steam whenever needed.

[LogicalFallacy]

Hi Jupiter789

 

Welcome to Ex-C! Heck of a story you have there! Glad you have found us - just letting out your frustrations to people you know have been where you are really helps.

 

I think the anger is a natural stage many of us go through at realising we were duped and that, as you hinted at, by the time we get out of it much of our life has gone by and we have to start afresh. I feel your conundrum at not wanting to tell family and being cautious of losing them.

 

It sounds like you might have come across Richard Carrier, Dr Price, and possibly Ken Humphreys (Who has a youtube channel Jesus Never Existed - worth checking out).

 

I also like AronRa - so good at explaining science and debunking religious nonsense. Mat Dilahunty is also great at going through bible fallacies logically. OF course there are a number of other very good youtubers discussing religion and its flaws.

 

Hope you stay around,

 

Cheers

LF

[Geezer]

 

 

Glad you found us Jup. I’ve noticed similarities in many of the deconversion stories. The sense of betrayal, the shock when the truth is discovered, and then the anger sets in. Leaving religion is difficult, especially when family members are still active fundamentalists, but in the end it’s all worth it.

 

There doesn’t seem to be any easy way out of religion. It takes time to overcome the intense brainwashing, and often a lot of time. You’ve done your homework so you know Christianity is man made BS. That is often a big hurtle to overcome and you’ve done that so you’re already ahead of the game. 

 

Like you, my study and research into the origins and evolution of both the Bible and the Christian faith convinced me both Jesus and Paul were literary figures not real people and that all of it is man made. Heaven and Hell are both fictional as is the Bible God.

 

So pull up a chair and join the fun.   

 

Oh yeah, you have to make 25 posts before you can edit and do other fun stuff. 

[Joshpantera]

Couple things, first welcome aboard, officially. Secondly, good on you for doing the reading and research on your own. 

 

If you've been lurking around then you probably are already familiar with the goings on around here. I shipped off to fundy boarding school at age 15. It made an atheist of me that same year. But going forward I read up on comparative mythology and religion, eastern mysticism and western esoteric traditions. Wound up philosophically pantheist. So I see the pantheism coming from your current god beliefs about the whole in relation to the parts. It's good to see you expanding your mind and looking at the big picture. 

 

You're welcome to talk about whatever you'd like here, that's the main thing. Most of us have been through emotional roller coasters (especially the ex fundies around here) and can relate to what you're going through. 

 

Take care and keep those thoughts coming. 

[TruthSeeker0]

Hello and welcome! 

And congratulations on getting yourself out of the mind control that is Christianity. The emotional roller coaster ride out of it, the anger and regrets, it's all normal. There are several "stages" that one goes through but of course we all differ in how quickly we go through them etc. If you're interested in a read pertaining to the process of leaving itself Id recommend Marlene Winell's Leaving the Fold. She also runs a support group at https://journeyfree.org/

 

Looking forward to hearing more of your ideas. You have a sound head on your shoulders and have come a long way already, it only gets better from here. 

[MOHO]

17 hours ago, jupiter789 said:

All of it was designed for social control

BINGO!

 

17 hours ago, jupiter789 said:

I just can't quite get over how angry I really am.

Perfectly understandable. You were lied to for years by people your respected and trusted. I still get angry from time to time (Former xtian for almost 3 years) but I realized that hanging on to the anger only robs me of more of my life than xanity already took from me. Don't forget the lesson but lose the anger or, at least, direct it to where it belongs - at the asshats that KNOWINGLY spread the lies and deception for their own benefit.  

 

    - MOHO (Mind Of His Own)

[Tsathoggua9]

Hey, I really enjoyed reading your story. Glad that you found us!

[jupiter789]

Thank you all so much for your replies!!  I appreciate the link to Journey Free, TruthSeeker0, and all of the other recommendations.  It looks like a lot of us have googled our way to the same sources.  It's really comforting (and infuriating - there's that anger again) that so many of us have had such similar experiences.  My heart aches for some of you all that are in a much worse place than I find myself.  I feel like I'm stuck in the "Christian" closet even though I long ago stopped going to church.  My family hopes America becomes a Christian Theocracy.  That dystopia would be my worst nightmare.  Anybody else who's new feel suspended or detached or not so much out of body but outside of everybody? I do live in the Midwest.  It's Christmas time, so, I'm surrounded by it.  I guess that could be part of it.  

 

Anyway, thanks so much guys, it means a lot!  

[TruthSeeker0]

32 minutes ago, jupiter789 said:

Thank you all so much for your replies!!  I appreciate the link to Journey Free, TruthSeeker0, and all of the other recommendations.  It looks like a lot of us have googled our way to the same sources.  It's really comforting (and infuriating - there's that anger again) that so many of us have had such similar experiences.  My heart aches for some of you all that are in a much worse place than I find myself.  I feel like I'm stuck in the "Christian" closet even though I long ago stopped going to church.  My family hopes America becomes a Christian Theocracy.  That dystopia would be my worst nightmare.  Anybody else who's new feel suspended or detached or not so much out of body but outside of everybody? I do live in the Midwest.  It's Christmas time, so, I'm surrounded by it.  I guess that could be part of it.  

 

Anyway, thanks so much guys, it means a lot!  

 I live in a rather liberal-minded society (I"m Canadian), but I live among fundies. Now it feels more like they're clearly the ones that live in that bubble of crazy. Early on in my deconversion though I felt like I was living in my own bubble. Part of it was the fact that I hadn't started to identify as much with the wider society around me, because I had been so indoctrinated to "other" the society around me.

[Derek]

Hey, Jupiter...I left the cult 30 years ago and I still feel the anger...just need an outlet for it. I lift weights

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Welcome! Glad you saw through it. Fear seems to be the primary factor in almost all Christianity, and your family fits that mold well, as does the influence of the church in the Bible Belt. Fear of parents, fear of invisible spirit creatures including the alleged friend "God", fear of exclusion, and lots of human sheep willing to dole out spiteful punishments on those who are different. Living around the cult makes it a lot harder to just live normally. I was able to get away from the influence of church prior to my deconversion, and live in the Oregon/Washington area where many reject Christianity (even with a ton of active Evangelicals around us) or have "other" spirituality.

 

So I hope you are able to find an oasis or two to make life more fun and enjoyable. I spent a year writing a book to help me purge some of the anger, and to point out the many stupid things I used to believe and promote. I don't think I go around with much anger now, but a friend pointed out that if he mentions my former faith I tend to get revved up attacking it. I think that is a normal response to having an emotional abuser (the Christian god) that I thought lived inside of me for most of my life. So it probably never goes away entirely, but I'm fine with that.

[jupiter789]

On 12/7/2018 at 4:54 AM, Derek said:

Hey, Jupiter...I left the cult 30 years ago and I still feel the anger...just need an outlet for it. I lift weights

Hi Derek,

Glad to be here! Sorry to respond two months laterish - I absolutely agree about weight lifting.  We also have a heavy bag  I've used that a bit.  Thanks for the response!

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I see my niece and nephew in your description of family life, outside of the self-proclaimed prophet thing. They have been sheltered, given only the information that passes inspection first, and only ever told why the critics are wrong. So they think they are getting a balanced view of the world, but are so very not. I'm hoping they see through it. I have so little contact with them that I can only really hope. They are definitely brainiacs and voracious readers, so...

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

My parents pulled the same shit with my education.  Went to christian schools through high school and then they shipped me off to bible college to become a preacher.  I went back to school many years later and got a degree in biotechnology; but, in many ways, I'm still quite ill-prepared for life.  The analogy I often use is: imagine you were told that 2Lx2W was the only formula you'd ever need, as it would solve every problem; then you get the exam and there are triangles on it.  I learn new formulae all the time now; sometimes because I fail the exam, sometimes not.

[Myrkhoos]

On 2/22/2019 at 2:33 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

My parents pulled the same shit with my education.  Went to christian schools through high school and then they shipped me off to bible college to become a preacher.  I went back to school many years later and got a degree in biotechnology; but, in many ways, I'm still quite ill-prepared for life.  The analogy I often use is: imagine you were told that 2Lx2W was the only formula you'd ever need, as it would solve every problem; then you get the exam and there are triangles on it.  I learn new formulae all the time now; sometimes because I fail the exam, sometimes not.

Well know, really know the feeling. Like I am teleported in a foreign distant land, somehow like a russian peasant in 12th century goes to the Imperial court of India or something to apply for a government. Need more life skills!

[thetruthsetmefree]

Hello,

 

Thank you for your post.  I just joined and began reading the testimonials of others.  It took a lot of courage to come to this conclusion and type this up.

 

I think that hard part is not letting go intellectually (the logic and evidence are pretty clear where they point); the hard part is the emotional and spiritual letting go.

 

 

[jupiter789]

13 hours ago, thetruthsetmefree said:

 

 

I think that hard part is not letting go intellectually (the logic and evidence are pretty clear where they point); the hard part is the emotional and spiritual letting go.

 

 

Thank you and welcome!  I completely agree about the letting go emotionally - I have some rage issues :) Getting it down on paper in a forum that wouldn't try to intervention me back to Christianity was really helpful! 

[jupiter789]

On 2/21/2019 at 10:05 PM, Fuego said:

I see my niece and nephew in your description of family life, outside of the self-proclaimed prophet thing. They have been sheltered, given only the information that passes inspection first, and only ever told why the critics are wrong. So they think they are getting a balanced view of the world, but are so very not. I'm hoping they see through it. I have so little contact with them that I can only really hope. They are definitely brainiacs and voracious readers, so...

 

 

Hi Fuego!  I was just looking over my old posts, and I reread yours.  I recently spent some time with my significant other's niece.  She was raised in Texas, super conservative, too.  We hadn't seen her for about 8 years or so, as a teen, she was very Christian.  She's about 22ish now - still young and now AGNOSTIC.  She found her truth.  I have hope! (especially if they are readers, we can't help ourselves :) )

[MOHO]

20 hours ago, jupiter789 said:

 

Hi Fuego!  I was just looking over my old posts, and I reread yours.  I recently spent some time with my significant other's niece.  She was raised in Texas, super conservative, too.  We hadn't seen her for about 8 years or so, as a teen, she was very Christian.  She's about 22ish now - still young and now AGNOSTIC.  She found her truth.  I have hope! (especially if they are readers, we can't help ourselves )

Yes.

If they READ, keep an open mind and, oh yeah, read something OTHER than the Bible, then enlightenment will ensue. 

 

This is encouraging news, @jupiter789!

 

[◊ DestinyTurtle ◊]

On 12/5/2018 at 9:02 PM, jupiter789 said:

I want the lost time back. 

Welcome, @jupiter789! Man I hear you. I grew up in a fundamentalist family, too, and also feared similarly about economic and social abandonment by my family. I look back in awe at how much I was able to reclaim, but I still struggle with a deep seated anger at the things that they deprived me of - to the extent that they could. In any case, we get to live our own lives now.