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Goodbye Jesus

Are "pro-life" christians short-sighted?


TexasFreethinker

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43 minutes ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I likely should have made clear in my post that it goes without saying that people should exercise responsibility with their sex lives and risks of pregnancy, so I didn't even bother to point that out separately. You can assume that when I'm talking about abortion I'm not saying the government should just provide freebies to irresponsible people.

And I also don't mean that body autonomy means you can do whatever, wherever to your body. You cannot compare giving birth to and supporting a child for the rest of your life to smoking weed.

You should,, as a woman, be able to make the choice for giving birth or not - you will not only be responsible for that choice but for the support of another human being for the rest of your living life, and that's not any decision to be made lightly.

As I said, it's a complicated issue and it's situation/context dependent.

At the end of the day however, I will not be walking around judging people's choices in regards to the choice they made. There are enough people out there already doing that.

 

I respect all that. I really do. You and I can agree that we need to respond to certain pregnancies differently than others. 

 

The problem is that your comment about responsibility in sex lives rules out a LOT of abortions. The statistic is crazy high, I'll have to look it up again, but it's a pretty crazy high majority of abortions are revolve around inconvenience for the mother. 

 

You and I can also agree on not judging people. I'd just really rather not these days

 

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1 hour ago, ag_NO_stic said:

 

I respect all that. I really do. You and I can agree that we need to respond to certain pregnancies differently than others. 

 

The problem is that your comment about responsibility in sex lives rules out a LOT of abortions. The statistic is crazy high, I'll have to look it up again, but it's a pretty crazy high majority of abortions are revolve around inconvenience for the mother. 

 

You and I can also agree on not judging people. I'd just really rather not these days

 

I haven't actually looked up the stats and don't know how much info there is on the "why" of why people get abortions. But it's pretty obvious if you're using birth control etc the chances are low and in your favor. And really why would you not use contraception instead of then having an abortion? It's a no brainer. But yes there are circumstances that are outside of the inconvenience scenario. 

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  • 5 months later...

Sorry for the long delay in replying.

 

On 1/7/2019 at 12:39 PM, ag_NO_stic said:

My issue with abortion is 100% about us, as a society, deciding to overlook consequences as the result of our behavior and give "the easy way out" at the expense of a human life. We are viewing other humans as expendable purely for our own convenience. I keep saying as a nation, because it's currently legal. When we denounce the practice legally and stop endorsing it, there can be more room for discussion. The morality I see here is group oriented, not individual, which is actually different from how I usually view things. If you had asked a slave owner how life would look without slaves, they would have given any number of reasons or excuses for how it's "not the best practice out there, but it gets the job done," or "it might not be favorable, but society will collapse with out it," etc etc. We still took a stand as a group, fought a war over it even, that ultimately put that practice to rest. At the time, it was not considered to be such a violation of human rights as it is today. The "cut-off" debate at the time was different, but it's the same principal of debating on the behalf of people who weren't given a voice, who were actively silenced. That's why the 3/5 compromise was such a big deal. And we still look back TODAY and judge ourselves for not treating people with basic human decency. "How could we do that to people" we ask ourselves. We have that opportunity today, to tell ourselves that within society's moral code there is room for change.

 

I recognize there are a lot of ways that these two issues are NOT comparable.

 

There is a very significant way in which the two are not comparable. All the slaves could feel, whereas a fetus terminated prior to having brainwaves cannot feel. It was harmful to the slaves, but there is no harm to a fetus with no ability to sense anything. Thus, there is no meaningful correlation whatsoever between the two issues when dealing specifically with abortions performed prior to the development of brainwaves (which is the case for the majority of abortions). I would agree with sensible restrictions on later abortions, but there is no real morality issue with early abortions.

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