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TexasFreethinker

What would it take for you to believe?

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I don't believe in the christian god (or any others) and I'm not sure the christian god can exist, what with the problem of evil, but if he does exist, what would need to happen for you to believe?

 

Some things that would go a long way toward convincing me...

 

1.  Proof that prayer to the christian god works miracles.  A room of 12 Amputees (god likes the number 12) with 144 prayer warriors asking for their limbs to be restored immediately, witnessed by a large number of non-believer doctors and scientists who could fully examine the patients before and after the prayer session.  As soon as the prayers are completed (let's give them 12 minutes), the limbs are immediately restored.  That would be convincing, especially if it could be repeated over and over.

2.  Proof that the bible is the word of god.  Any book that claims to be the word or instructions of god would suddenly contain the same text and any non-god-given instructions would disappear and not be able to be reprinted in the book.  If the Book of Mormon and Koran are lies, the ink would flow off those pages leaving them blank and could never be reprinted.  Contradictions in the bible would disappear leaving only the clear words of god.

3.  Bible god would appear to all of us on a daily basis.  At 10pm (local time) god would appear in the sky hundreds of feet tall so that all could see him at once (being god he could work out the northern/southern hemisphere logistics).  He would tell us what needs to happen and take questions which he would answer.  Everyone would hear him in their own language, and he could be recorded and you could ask others what they heard and it would agree with what you heard.  If you asked him to he would come down from the sky afterwards and visit you in your house for further discussions.  He would never give different answers to different people for the same questions.

4.  Added bonus:  all religious leaders who have sexually abused children would immediately turn bright green and their dicks (assuming they are men) would fall off.  Anyone who protected them from prosecution and enabled their sex crimes would immediately be covered in large purple polka-dots.

 

If, as some christians claim, their god really exists and loves me and wants nothing more than for me to believe in him he needs to stop acting exactly like a non-existent god would and offer some valid proof.

 

Has any other ex-christian thought about what it would take for them to believe again?

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Heal at least two of my dozen physical problems. I am not asking for much...just when I pray for something that the human body can't heal itself and Doctors can't fix, then God, if he is really Love like religion claims, then fix it dammit!

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All of the above plus he'd have to stop causing children to die of horrible, painful diseases and quit allowing some of them to be born with horrific defects.

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The three you listed were pretty good. I would take those. Number 2 and 3 especially hold true for me.

 

When I was making my way out of Christianity, I would often beg the biblical God to give me one hour of his time to tell me what is orthodoxy, what is orthopraxy, and perhaps and a couple questions I had about moving forward. I was so desperate, I even asked for a talking deer or something similar, anything but another fallible human.

 

Still waiting. 

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I believed once and it was due to an emotional hook, not a logical argument or evidence. At this point I can't really see any possibility of believing such crap again.

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"What would it take for you to believe?"

 

Sound like "What would it take to get you to drive this car home today?"

 

Apologies to any car salespersons out there.

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I think you covered it quite well TexasFreethinker...I'd like to see that kind of proof too. I have always been a doubter (well, since my teens anyway) so evidence like that would go a long way. :)

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     Isn't this question more like what would it take for me to believe again?  In that case I don't really think there's anything.  I've sort of crossed bible god off the list of plausible gods.

 

     I've actually gotten to the point where I don't even really know what a god really is or how I might actually identify one.  Just because something says it's a god and does impressive (ie. miraculous) things does that really mean anything?  What I mean is does that mean I should adore this thing?  Worship it?  Does that mean it's a god?  Does that mean it somehow imparts a spirit in me and that there's an afterlife?  Does that mean this thing can help me when it comes to this afterlife or does it only have power in the here and now?

 

     I really have no answers to these questions (and more) and it would take quite a bit for me to actually accept that some creature is a god in all these respects.

 

          mwc

 

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I have no need to come up with any criteria because:

 

1. An omniscient god would know what it would take to make itself known to me.

2. An omnipotent god would be able to do that which would make itself known to me.

 

The ball is in god's court and mine is wide open. 

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On 1/1/2019 at 1:58 PM, Citsonga said:

I have no need to come up with any criteria because:

 

1. An omniscient god would know what it would take to make itself known to me.

2. An omnipotent god would be able to do that which would make itself known to me.

 

The ball is in god's court and mine is wide open. 

 

And an omnipresent god would already be you, in the first place. 

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1 hour ago, Joshpantera said:

 

And an omnipresent god would already be you, in the first place. 

 

Right. Omnipresence indicates pantheism. I think?

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On 12/31/2018 at 9:37 PM, MOHO said:

"What would it take for you to believe?"

 

Sound like "What would it take to get you to drive this car home today?"

 

Apologies to any car salespersons out there.

 

When you drive Jesus off the lot does he depreciate?

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Your requirements for proof a quite good, if god is a personal god. However, this does not preclude the existence of a deistic god who simply doesn't care about you. 

 

For example, I was making yogurt today and in doing so, I create an environment where I pasteurize my milk to kill off all microorganisms then add in a live bacteria culture to then, be fruitful and multiply as it were. If, say, one of these bacteria became aware and asked me what it was, I could tell it that it's a bacteria in a pot. Being alarmed and confused it may accuse me of lying. As a comparative god to it, I'd find that amusing. ((NOTE: If I were YHWH, I'd be screaming at the pot, adding sanitizers to it to kill untold numbers of bacteria and demanding their praise and obedience for creating their world and the lives they have.))

 

If this bacteria started demanding that I demonstrate my power to it, I may rightly say that I have far more important things to worry about than answering to the demands of a bacteria in a pot. 

 

If after awhile there were countless numbers of them, all petitioning me for everything from finding their lost possessions to changing the very world they live in, demanding answers, praising me, cursing me and every which other, I may eventually just shush the pot and put a lid on it so that I do not have to listen and their world continues on has it has, as I made it. 

 

In this instance, the lack of demonstrable evidence of my power does not preclude my existence. Neither does belief or non-belief in me really matter to me in the slightest. But how would the bacteria who cannot leave the pot truly know if I am real or not? Well, there's a good chance they could never know unless I returned and started interacting with their world again. But unless I do, my existence actually doesn't even matter.

 

What would it take for me to believe again? Well, definitely a god interacting with the world. But the only concept of a god I have now still wouldn't care about my belief or non-belief. If it reappeared and said, "Yup, I am the one who created life." I'd fully expect that if I started demanding answers of it, I'd be ignored. That god would do whatever it's motivation is to do and there isn't much I can do about it. 

 

Now, if YHWH is real and then shows himself to me, I'd first assume I was crazy and ask for external confirmation. If I receive that, my next question would be, "WHERE THE F*** HAVE YOU BEEN?!"

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That the xtian god grow a pair, take a midol, haul his “royal” ass off his throne and stand before me, and prove its some kind of god. However I still wouldnt bow to this vile monster, nor become one of its “fangirls”, its actions as recorded in the bible warrants it as unworthy of anything but scorn. 

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Cookies.  I'm pretty easy to please.

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1 hour ago, 1989 said:

Cookies.  I'm pretty easy to please.

 

Image result for where is your cookie god now

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On 12/29/2018 at 1:54 AM, TexasFreethinker said:

I don't believe in the christian god (or any others) and I'm not sure the christian god can exist, what with the problem of evil, but if he does exist, what would need to happen for you to believe?

 

Some things that would go a long way toward convincing me...

 

1.  Proof that prayer to the christian god works miracles.  A room of 12 Amputees (god likes the number 12) with 144 prayer warriors asking for their limbs to be restored immediately, witnessed by a large number of non-believer doctors and scientists who could fully examine the patients before and after the prayer session.  As soon as the prayers are completed (let's give them 12 minutes), the limbs are immediately restored.  That would be convincing, especially if it could be repeated over and over.

2.  Proof that the bible is the word of god.  Any book that claims to be the word or instructions of god would suddenly contain the same text and any non-god-given instructions would disappear and not be able to be reprinted in the book.  If the Book of Mormon and Koran are lies, the ink would flow off those pages leaving them blank and could never be reprinted.  Contradictions in the bible would disappear leaving only the clear words of god.

3.  Bible god would appear to all of us on a daily basis.  At 10pm (local time) god would appear in the sky hundreds of feet tall so that all could see him at once (being god he could work out the northern/southern hemisphere logistics).  He would tell us what needs to happen and take questions which he would answer.  Everyone would hear him in their own language, and he could be recorded and you could ask others what they heard and it would agree with what you heard.  If you asked him to he would come down from the sky afterwards and visit you in your house for further discussions.  He would never give different answers to different people for the same questions.

4.  Added bonus:  all religious leaders who have sexually abused children would immediately turn bright green and their dicks (assuming they are men) would fall off.  Anyone who protected them from prosecution and enabled their sex crimes would immediately be covered in large purple polka-dots.

 

If, as some christians claim, their god really exists and loves me and wants nothing more than for me to believe in him he needs to stop acting exactly like a non-existent god would and offer some valid proof.

 

Has any other ex-christian thought about what it would take for them to believe again?

I can't actually think of what I would require to believe in Jesus, since any evidence that would make me believe in him would cancel out any faith. The bible is very clear that faith is essentially the only way, so that would cancel out knowing what proof I would require. 

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The reason faith, not evidence, is required to be a believer becomes crystal clear when you no longer have faith. There is a reason why obtaining faith requires intense indoctrination. It’s more than a little concerning to acknowledge how easy it is to indoctrinate people. The earth is filled with Billions of brainwashed people, that have absolutely no clue that they are brainwashed. 

 

And many of these brainwashed folks are very willing to die for their “beliefs”, or to kill those that don’t believe as they do. That is scary.

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