Miriam

open question to all - can you help?

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

Most of us care what Christians have to say because some of it can be downright dangerous and hurtful towards other people

Oh, Truthseeker! Many, many things people have to say can be downright dangerous and hurtful towards other people.  But, I'll leave that one to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thank you for your support
Buy Ex-C a cup of coffee!
Costs have significantly risen and we need your support! Click the coffee cup to give a one-time donation, or choose one of the recurrent patron options.
Note: All Contributing Patrons enjoy Ex-Christian.net advertisement free.
1 minute ago, Miriam said:

Oh, Truthseeker! Many, many things people have to say can be downright dangerous and hurtful towards other people.  But, I'll leave that one to you.

I'm talking on a societal level here, what kind of impact you guys can have as a whole. A good many of you for example don't seem to value the separation of church and state and want to impose your beliefs in the state apparatus as well because "god reins supreme." Your value system is different and thus can lead to different outcomes (such as opposing the legalization of same sex marriage, simply due to your beliefs). I can see this very well myself, I was once a Christian. However, even as a Christian I had a hands-off approach to enforcing my religious beliefs in state legislation. My point is simply that Christians are free to have their beliefs, but they can stay the hell out of legislating others based on their beliefs. Why isn't freedom of religion enough?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Miriam, I think what little you & I interacted was respectful. Anyway, as per your question here, if you really want to know what opened my eyes to the fact that Christianity isn't true and are patient enough, feel free to read the 49 page letter I wrote my parents a few years ago. The vast majority of the letter addresses problems with the Bible and Christian beliefs as well as some typical apologetics attempts to resolve the problems. Even though it's long, the letter still doesn't cover all the problems, but it's plenty to help you see that there are indeed serious flaws in Christianity. If you're interested, you can download it from here:

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Margee said:

I'm not one bit upset honey. I think you are a sweetheart who is brainwashed by religion the same as I was. You are the one who wanted to see why we deconverted? 

 

What exactly do you believe that I didn't believe? Win me back girl!! :woohoo:

 

Oh, Margee! I do like you! But as I said in another post, I don't think you realise how you lot actually think here.  OK, let's say I'm brainwashed - no point trying to win you back then, eh? But I have definitely learned stuff, even if it's not all what you wanted me to learn :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I'm talking on a societal level here, what kind of impact you guys can have as a whole. A good many of you for example don't seem to value the separation of church and state and want to impose your beliefs in the state apparatus as well because "god reins supreme." Your value system is different and thus can lead to different outcomes (such as opposing the legalization of same sex marriage, simply due to your beliefs). I can see this very well myself, I was once a Christian. However, even as a Christian I had a hands-off approach to enforcing my religious beliefs in state legislation. My point is simply that Christians are free to have their beliefs, but they can stay the hell out of legislating others based on their beliefs. Why isn't freedom of religion enough? 

Truthseeker. You are obviously in earnest here. I will not say anything, you'll just get worked up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Miriam said:

 

Oh, Margee! I do like you! But as I said in another post, I don't think you realise how you lot actually think here. 

Hun, don't sound so condescending. You've likely just been in a Christian bubble too much. We're aware of how we think around here.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Citsonga.  It's a bit long, but not going anywhere, I'll have time some day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

Hun, don't sound so condescending. You've likely just been in a Christian bubble too much. We're aware of how we think around here.

Not trying to be condescending.  But I'm really not a fool.  You aren't as objective as you all think.  That's OK, you're in your bubble, I'm in mine.   You see my bubble because you have fresh eyes on me - same here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Miriam said:

Thanks, Citsonga.  It's a bit long, but not going anywhere, I'll have time some day.

 

You're welcome. Enjoy. ;)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Miriam,  I am not alone many have deconverted for the same/similar reasons as me.

 

Here is why I no longer believe and deconverted

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Miriam said:

Not trying to be condescending.  But I'm really not a fool.  You aren't as objective as you all think.  That's OK, you're in your bubble, I'm in mine.   You see my bubble because you have fresh eyes on me - same here.

Will you admit that faith isn't about logic and reason and empirical evidence at least? The Christian faith is simply believing that what is written in the bible is god's word, and that jesus died for your sins. Those of us that don't believe that way use logic and reason and empirical evidence. So, I think, telling us we aren't being objective is simply ridiculous. What you likely actually mean is "you arent willing to put any stock in faith."

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Miriam said:

I'm sorry, I've tried to have respectful conversation here, and it is not possible - I have been accused of being closed minded, but confronted with the same.

 

I really don't think the majority of people on this forum are like that at all, just the very noisy ones.

 

Could you please help me by posting links to helpful sources that contain information on your point of view, things like how you see history in contradiction to Christianity, any personal belief reasons why it makes no sense etc.  Not books, I can't afford it.

 

Thank you for your replies.  I will not respond to nasty posts in answer to this post. It is up to you now how you want to represent yourselves.

 

Also, a thank you to the people here, like MOHO, who have treated me well.

 

Miriam

 

You can read my in-progress site here. Feel free to use the contact form to ask questions with any content. The "My Story" page outlines my journey out of religion. 

 

https://iwasfreeborn.wordpress.com/

 

Note, it's not finished and missing a lot of information I'd like to add.

 

PS, if I came across as too strong during our interactions please know no personal offense was intended.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Miriam said:

Thank you, NeverHealed!

What! That is it. Thank you when it is pretty obvious that the promises of the bible are unreal, made up nonsense!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LF - thanks. No worries, no offence taken!

 

TS - what wisdom could I impart to you? You have a much more sophisticated, superior view of the world. I'm a brainwashed Christian, remember?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, NeverHealed52Years said:

What! That is it. Thank you when it is pretty obvious that the promises of the bible are unreal, made up nonsense!

 

The Thank You was genuine. I'm still sticking with my unreal, made up nonsense, but thanks for letting me know more about yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@MiriamPerhaps I am coming across as condescending, but I was once in your place as well. Try to remember that when you interact with the folks in this forum. We are all former Christians. I know how it feels to have people questioning something you hold precious. But I also know the other side of the coin. 

As for my own history, you can read it here

And here

 

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TS - Yes, you are all former Christians. I have read what you believed. I have been reading what you have been saying to me - all of it, carefully. But you have only asked me the questions you have asked a million times before. You don't know everything I think, you just think you do, and as you read that, now you think I am saying what you have heard before, all of it the same.

It's not that you were being condescending, don't worry :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Miriam said:

TS - Yes, you are all former Christians. I have read what you believed. I have been reading what you have been saying to me - all of it, carefully. But you have only asked me the questions you have asked a million times before. You don't know everything I think, you just think you do, and as you read that, now you think I am saying what you have heard before, all of it the same.

It's not that you were being condescending, don't worry :) 

I don't claim to know everything. I claim to know enough about the evidence for and against the existence of god and the case for Christianity, on which I base my belief. 

Since you claim people here aren't objective and that we claim to know everything, I have a question for you: are you willing to go to your public library if you get some suggestions for further reading from people in this forum, and then discuss them with us? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I don't claim to know everything. I claim to know enough about the evidence for and against the existence of god and the case for Christianity, on which I base my belief. 

Since you claim people here aren't objective and that we claim to know everything, I have a question for you: are you willing to go to your public library if you get some suggestions for further reading from people in this forum, and then discuss them with us? 

 Let's agree then, that neither of us knows everything.  "On which you base your belief."

TS, I'd love to discuss things with you. But from what I've read here, you wouldn't listen, because if I have an answer you don't like, I just believe in rubbish.  "On which you base your belief." Maybe, if you'll let me, I can post my own testimony. It's quite different to all yours. But that's up to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to know why I think you won't listen, what midniterider just posted is a good example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Miriam said:

TS - Yes, you are all former Christians. I have read what you believed.

 

 

That's refreshing, at least. Other Christians might say we never were real Christians at all. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Miriam said:

 Let's agree then, that neither of us knows everything.  "On which you base your belief."

TS, I'd love to discuss things with you. But from what I've read here, you wouldn't listen, because if I have an answer you don't like, I just believe in rubbish.  "On which you base your belief." Maybe, if you'll let me, I can post my own testimony. It's quite different to all yours. But that's up to you.

No, as LF stated in the other thread, you would have to be willing to discuss things in such a way that you would actually be open to critique of the bible and you wouldn't defend your perspective from the basis of biblical truth. We have had plenty of Christians here who have only involved themselves in conversation with claims such as "the bible says..." Doing that is utterly pointless. We do not believe in biblical truth, and that is why. I would say for almost all of us here, the bible is nothing more than a literary, historical record of civilizations and their mythologies. As such, making arguments in defense of your position using the bible will not hold water here. So no, if you're wondering, that is why we will not listen to and seriously consider defenses made on such a basis. If you are going to argue from the position that the bible is the truth, there is no point in discussing anything with you.

If you are open to other possibilities, such as the bible not being inerrant, not being the truth, and its having inconsistencies which simply don't square together, we may get somewhere.

If you are open to serious discussion for and against the existence of the christian god, we may get somewhere. If you argue from the basis that god simply exists and that's that, once again, it's pointless to discuss anything with you.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Miriam said:

If you want to know why I think you won't listen, what midniterider just posted is a good example.

 

That was a different thread. And I's a terrible person.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Miriam said:

If you want to know why I think you won't listen, what midniterider just posted is a good example.

 

(this is what i posted on the other thread)

 

Whatever her purported reason for being here might have been, it appears she is in heavy apologetics and preaching mode now.

 

I said goodbye to the bible and church doctrine years ago. A personal relationship with God does not require bibles, churches or the freaky people that inhabit them. Just you and whatever you think God might be.

 

(Not saying you 'should' believe in a God, either)

 

.............

 

These other people aren't me. Maybe they'll listen. Though I was only a Christian about 10 years. A lot of these other people were afflicted with Christianity for many decades and were much worse off than me. To me, Christianity was an irritation to my mind, involving guilt, fear and shame, so one day I said, "Adios" to Christianity. Margee, on the other hand says she wasted a large part of her life in the Christian religion. It kind of makes people angry to discover that it is a big lie and that they could have enjoyed life without the Christian nonsense.

 

Please feel free to discuss whatever you like. We probably dont have a lot in common with you though. But we did have a resident Christian here for years who recently retired his post. Maybe you could grab the torch and we'll have glorious debates with you the way we did with him. :) I just choose not to allow guilt , fear and shame that other's (not God) try to heap on me regarding religion. Those people (church members) faded out of my life and it was for the better.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now