This really happened...????

[Ellinas]

A couple of days back, on a BBC news report of events surrounding the US government shut-down, we were treated to footage of the US president in a room full of his advisors and government colleagues, in a meeting that concluded with a pastor praying for their collective wisdom as they all sat their with heads bowed.  At the end, Mr T thanked the pastor, describing his words as "beautiful".

In the UK, politics tends to be reasonably secular, with just the trappings of the traditions of the country's Christian past but not, generally, anything like this.  I rather suspect a political body that behaved like this here would find its' electoral prospects in free-fall.

I found it as disturbing as it was incredible.

[Derek]

I heard him reading a bible verse during his campaign, and he concluded by saying "very true, very true". And the ignorant masses applauded loudly.

[◊ DestinyTurtle ◊]

In the U.S., Evangelical Xianity is a political cult. They don't even try to be consistent anymore. If a republican politician says something is ok, it's as though the pope said it and they'll furiously defend why the bible has always defended that viewpoint since the ancient of days. They'd do a complete 180 just as easily as soon as that stance becomes inconvenient ("We are at war with Oceania. We were always at war with Oceania.")

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Religion is firmly embedded (in-bed-with) politics in America. Local governments all the way up to the top. Our national motto "In God We Trust" was recently put into metal letters above the chairs of the county councilors where I live. The ones that pushed this through were a combination of actual believers and two Trumpian GOP members, all of whom were councilors (commissioners at that time). I doubt it will ever be removed. The push for god in politics here was one way to distinguish us from the godless commie scum back in the 1950s, putting the phrase "under God" into our "Pledge of Allegiance", so evangelicals did all they could to insist on Christian morals being pushed as just "moral behavior" in print, radio, live music, movies, and TV. It has taken a lot of work to undo that attitude. Hugh Hefner fought them in court back in the 60s to be able to publish Playboy. Others followed on to be able to publish more explicit things. It was a big deal back in the 1970s for a TV show "Three's Company" to have a man living in the same house as two beautiful women. Before that, even shows that had married couples had to show them sleeping in separate beds. The 1980s saw a resurgence of Christian control being pushed for the good of society, labeling records with parent advisories and such, which the church began to move from a position of regarding demons as an outdated concept to real and in your kids bedroom. Fear sells, so the church latched onto fears of backmasking in music, making presentations on campuses about the hidden demonic messages in pop music and kids cartoons. Tons of books and sermons have been produced detailing all the ways that demons are seducing people to reject the Christian god.

 

Evangelicals played a HUGE role in the election of Trump, and he pays them back by pretending to believe any of it. And they eat it up. Many are absolutely convinced that he was placed there by god almighty to protect Israel and usher in the kingdom of god, stamping out abortion and the gay agenda, and ending socialist programs that corrupt the pure capitalism that Jesus wants us to have. It is a bizarre cult, and very powerful in the states.

 

[Tsathoggua9]

The Republican party nowadays is a bizarre mishmash of true-believers (mostly Evangelicals) and those willing to use the true-believin' Christians in order to achieve political power. A sad state of affairs, but it ain't goin' away, anytime soon!

[Geezer]

Trump isn’t religious and that would seem to be obvious to anyone that isn’t worshiping at his alter. Religion is loosing its dominate influence in then U.S., but it’s a slow process. It was just on Jan 1 of this year that grocery stores could start selling liquor and wine on Sundays where I live. And it was only a year ago that grocery stores could sell wine at all.

 

In the Bible Belt any politician that made it public knowledge they were atheists would have little or no chance of being elected to any political office. I don’t see that changing for a very long time into the future. 

 

[Tsathoggua9]

20 minutes ago, Geezer said:

Trump isn’t religious and that would seem to be obvious to anyone that isn’t worshiping at his alter. Religion is loosing its dominate influence in then U.S., but it’s a slow process. It was just on Jan 1 of this year that grocery stores could start selling liquor and wine on Sundays where I live. And it was only a year ago that grocery stores could sell wine at all.

 

In the Bible Belt any politician that made it public knowledge they were atheists would have little or no chance of being elected to any political office. I don’t see that changing for a very long time into the future. 

 

 

Oh yeah, it will take a while for the situation to improve, for sure!

[MOHO]

The GOP has some good ideas and philosophies. (Disclaimer: I do no subscribe to any party and vote the issues) 

Many of the GOP's policies are rejected by the masses because of the GOP's basic association with the moral majority. I often wonder how much more relevant that party would be if they would downplay said association.

 

of course, when I point this out to my fams and close circle of friends who ARE the moral majority, I am regarded as the scum of the Earth and my opinion dismissed entirely. Their point of view seems to be "If we can't win with Jesus then we'd rather not win!"

[Geezer]

24 minutes ago, MOHO said:

The GOP has some good ideas and philosophies. (Disclaimer: I do no subscribe to any party and vote the issues) 

Many of the GOP's policies are rejected by the masses because of the GOP's basic association with the moral majority. I often wonder how much more relevant that party would be if they would downplay said association.

 

of course, when I point this out to my fams and close circle of friends who ARE the moral majority, I am regarded as the scum of the Earth and my opinion dismissed entirely. Their point of view seems to be "If we can't win with Jesus then we'd rather not win!"

 

It seems Jesus once invincible power and influence isn’t what it once was. And it appears Jesus is slowly becoming less and less relevant in politics. 

[mwc]

     People like religion here.  I'm pretty sure it has to do with the Puritans (ignoring the fact they were religious rejects).  It used to be all jesus all the time.  But people have recently dipped their toes into a few other pools.  But they're still all about some sort of "spirituality."  You still have to believe in the non-existent or at the very least the unproven if you prefer.  So if you're an atheist your odds are near zero but if you're just about anything else, in that you believe in something, especially one of the mainstay religions, you're in the running.  And I would think to have a shot at the top position you have to believe in god or put on that show for the masses.  People do not respond well when the top dog doesn't say "...and god bless the United States of America" whenever they end a speech.  It causes all sorts of natural disasters or something.

 

          mwc

 

[Aries256]

I dont believe Trump is as batshit crazy fundy as people think. Lol 

[MOHO]

10 minutes ago, Aries256 said:

I dont believe Trump is as batshit crazy fundy as people think. Lol 

 

You mean a politician eluded to something that was not quite accurate in order to put himself in a better position to be elected?

Say it ain't so?!

[Aries256]

11 minutes ago, MOHO said:

 

You mean a politician eluded to something that was not quite accurate in order to put himself in a better position to be elected?

Say it ain't so?!

Politician 101

[LogicalFallacy]

2 hours ago, Aries256 said:

I dont believe Trump is as batshit crazy fundy as people think. Lol 

 

I don't think he's even deeply religious. He just plays to the religious crowd... which while politically smart is inherently dishonest and devalues self worth IMO. One of the reasons I don't like the guy. Not that I like many politicians for much the same reason. Hard to get an honest one that you don't think is telling you one thing, but thinks another.

 

Of course he still says some batshit stupid stuff... but that's Trump.

[jupiter789]

I thought my family had some integrity until this stupid election cycle.  The thought that my uber-conservative evangelical father voted for Mr. 'Grab Em By The Pussy' is a literal affront to my sanity.  I can't believe I had a conversation with my Dad where that phrase could even be used in context!! (it would've been really funny but it wasn't)  Now he tries to convince me that Trump is different, he found Christ (not God, but Christ - it's always Christ.  Christ, Christy cult!). 

 

I do apologize, friends out there beyond our shores!!  America has sort of lost their heads politically speaking.  I don't know when we will be putting them back on right.  It's very up in the air at the moment.  Half the country refuses to do anything but speak out of their ass, and unfortunately that side seems to be in charge right now.  The other half is frankly all thumbs it appears - they're there, but not much more than a bulwark.  Gotta hand it to American politics, though.  Without the fail safe of the House of Representatives, this country would be going completely off the rails.  Silver lining I suppose :).  So pop some popcorn and pull up the internet because it's presidential primary season and here we go again! (Andrew Yang for President 2020!!!!!!)

[nontheistpilgrim]

You don't need to apologise to those of us in the UK. One word: Brexit. We are the laughing stock of Europe and elsewhere.

To cap it all, though, we hear that your Trump is backing our Boris to be the next PM. I can't imagine anything worse than Trump and Boris in bed together.

[Mike]

@fuego,

I believe you to be dead on in your assessment of religion and politics in America, in fact, I have long believed that politics and government was created by religion and religion was created by wanna-be rulers.

In the old saying, Religion and politics makes strange bedfellows', I dropped the word 'strange' and it all made sense in light of what I kept observing.

Bob Altemeyer  has an essay out (https://theauthoritarians.org/Downloads/TheAuthoritarians.pdf), The Authoritarians, that explains a lot about the connection between American politics and religion, specifically Christianity.

Worth a read.

[florduh]

Few people rely on facts, logic and critical thinking, even in the highest government offices.

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-nancy-reagan-astrology-20160306-story.html

[♦ Fuego ♦]

6 hours ago, Mike said:

In the old saying, Religion and politics makes strange bedfellows', I dropped the word 'strange' and it all made sense in light of what I kept observing.

 

I just encountered a believer online (in a friend's thread on Facebook) that was defending the idea that Trump was placed there by God, his chosen servant... And she thinks Obama kept kids in cages. She thinks lots of other things also, but even having been a die-hard fundy myself, I cannot fathom where the church has gone in the last 10 years to defend this guy as a believer set there by the bible god. There have always been useful idiots, but they really cannot see anything being real but their own bias. Lately I keep trying to see if I missed anything or am doing the same, but I haven't found it yet.

 

[older]

Fuego: 

The Republican party has grabbed on to three hot-button issues and there are many folks who are single-issue voters who will vote based solely on one of these: gays, guns and abortion. Everything else is irrelevant.

 

There was a recent opinion piece in the NYT titled "How to Break the Republican Lock on God." The key graf is:

The best Christian argument against Trump comes from Christ. The essence of Christianity is his exhortation that people treat the sick, the hungry, the poor, the imprisoned as they would treat him. “Whatever you did to the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did to me.”

 

The author suggests challenging their hypocrisy with the old phrase, "What would Jesus do?"

[Derek]

On March 28, 2019 at 11:12 PM, jupiter789 said:

 

I do apologize, friends out there beyond our shores!!  America has sort of lost their heads politically speaking.  I don't know when we will be putting them back on right.  

Here in Canada, we have a half- wit for a prime minister. Thankfully, later this year, we will have a chance to kick his wimpy ass to the curb

[◊ Weezer ◊]

WELCOME TO TRUMPLAND!  Where truth and rationality are unknown concepts.

[Stamps1962]

On 4/20/2019 at 2:01 PM, Derek said:

Here in Canada, we have a half- wit for a prime minister. Thankfully, later this year, we will have a chance to kick his wimpy ass to the curb

Probably none of my business, after all it's your country. 

 

But I wonder if you've researched the man who'd likely become PM if Trudeau loses the next election? (Andrew Scheer) He' s not a Fundie but happily accepts their support. To me he seems like all the RW Evangelistic types we have here in the GOP. Sure you want that?  

 

A 'half wit wimpy ass' seems better to me than Scheer, but like I said, it's your country. 

 

 

[♦ Fuego ♦]

On 4/19/2019 at 7:52 PM, older said:

The best Christian argument against Trump comes from Christ. The essence of Christianity is his exhortation that people treat the sick, the hungry, the poor, the imprisoned as they would treat him. “Whatever you did to the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did to me.”

 

The author suggests challenging their hypocrisy with the old phrase, "What would Jesus do?"

 

When I was a believer, that was a prominent thought in my mind, which is why I have a hard time with the church behaving like they don't believe that at all. They emphasize judgement, the 10 commandments (monuments usually), and are happy just mocking anything that isn't echoing their beliefs. It's like church doesn't even teach the words of Jesus anymore unless it is about tithing and giving more than a tithe.

 

I returned a bit of that attitude to this one lady by laughing at her dull-minded pro-Trump stance, but then thought "What is the damn point of my opinions on social media anyway?" I have started purposefully not commenting every time I see the stupid mocking laughing-face on FB, and I don't want to embody that mockery attitude. They aren't interested in dialog, just feeling good by laughing at others (being a bully, essentially). I resist even starting the FB app now, and only use it to keep in touch with musician gigs and to exchange humor with friends. 

[pantheory]

On 1/13/2019 at 4:30 AM, Ellinas said:

A couple of days back, on a BBC news report of events surrounding the US government shut-down, we were treated to footage of the US president in a room full of his advisors and government colleagues, in a meeting that concluded with a pastor praying for their collective wisdom as they all sat their with heads bowed.  At the end, Mr T thanked the pastor, describing his words as "beautiful".

In the UK, politics tends to be reasonably secular, with just the trappings of the traditions of the country's Christian past but not, generally, anything like this.  I rather suspect a political body that behaved like this here would find its' electoral prospects in free-fall.

I found it as disturbing as it was incredible.

 

Unfortunately in the world there has been a strong religious revival in the past half century. This extent of religious talking and praise in the presidential realm of the U.S. has not been part of presidential behavior for much more than a century. I expect that Trump's motivation for such wordings and behavior is to cater to his base. Although not necessary clear in our constitution, many or most in the U.S. are  proud of our tradition concerning the separation of church and state. Although it may be hard to consider a country like Turkey from this perspective, however their laws concerning the separation of church and state are clearly stated and seriously enforced. This worthy legislation was strongly initiated by Ataturk, the founder of modern-day Turkey following the first world war, in a country where Christians and Moslems were in serious conflict. This conflict generally ended when most Christians in Turkey went to Greece, and most Moslems in Greece went to Turkey.  Picture of Ataturk on their money, light brown hair, blue eyes 

 

One does not have to persecute religious people like the communists once did, but clear, strong, or better national laws regarding the separation of church and state would be a big benefit for all countries of the world as well as international relationships in general IMO.