HoneyBib

An Athiest Too Late.

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I made a similar post last year, but it was practically unreadable as I typed it in a teary rush.

 

For me, I became an atheist too late, religion had driven me insane when I was 13 and I am no longer the stable individual I was, I am numb, lonely, and find it hard to feel the emotion of happiness, I unconsciously compare myself to my pre - 13 year old self where I had a healthy cat who I did not turn away and used to spend time with, and then I look back at my 9 year old self and wished I had not had all the rapture, hell, and biblical rules shoved into my mind at home, church, and school.

 

I have no one to talk to but myself, no one who shares a similar or same mind as me, or similar fears or thoughts as I do, no one who shares a similar understanding of my fearful possibilities about the universe, physics, space-time, and philosophies as I do.

 

Ever since I was 13, I have to always try to soothe myself as I am always blamed for my mental illness by my religious family, and religious people at church, I have no one who would understand, and no one outside my family who seems to give two shits about my circumstances, I have had no friends since I was 13, I am no where near as mentally stable as I was when I was much younger, and to me, counsellors are no good as they are people simply doing their jobs, I am always alone to cry in silence in my loneliness.

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11 minutes ago, HoneyBib said:

I made a similar post last year, but it was practically unreadable as I typed it in a teary rush.

 

For me, I became an atheist too late, religion had driven me insane when I was 13 and I am no longer the stable individual I was, I am numb, lonely, and find it hard to feel the emotion of happiness, I unconsciously compare myself to my pre - 13 year old self where I had a healthy cat who I did not turn away and used to spend time with, and then I look back at my 9 year old self and wished I had not had all the rapture, hell, and biblical rules shoved into my mind at home, church, and school.

 

I have no one to talk to but myself, no one who shares a similar or same mind as me, or similar fears or thoughts as I do, no one who shares a similar understanding of my fearful possibilities about the universe, physics, space-time, and philosophies as I do.

 

Ever since I was 13, I have to always try to soothe myself as I am always blamed for my mental illness by my religious family, and religious people at church, I have no one who would understand, and no one outside my family who seems to give two shits about my circumstances, I have had no friends since I was 13, I am no where near as mentally stable as I was when I was much younger, and to me, counsellors are no good as they are people simply doing their jobs, I am always alone to cry in silence in my loneliness.

I am so sorry you feel Like this.  So many of us do.  I just want to hug you.  I hope you know you aren’t alone in this struggle.  We are here to listen and encourage you.  I am also very lonely even though I have a husband and 3 children.  I also work.  I don’t allow myself to have friends anymore though and I’m rarely around my family.  Maybe it’s a self defense mechanism, maybe I don’t feel like anyone gets me, maybe I feel like No one gives a shit, maybe I’m just depressed.  I’ve been this way for years.  A lot of it I also blame on religious indoctrination because I see the horrible effects its had on my life.  Here you will find people much like yourself.  Don’t let anyone ever make you feel like you’re less than.  You have so much potential and you can take joy in whatever you want to, whenever you want.  There’s nothing that says anyone has to be happy all of the time.  It’s okay to not feel good or happy all of the time.  I however do hope you can eventually feel happy sometimes.  You deserve that. 

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31 minutes ago, Mandy said:

I am so sorry you feel Like this.  So many of us do.  I just want to hug you.  I hope you know you aren’t alone in this struggle.  We are here to listen and encourage you.  I am also very lonely even though I have a husband and 3 children.  I also work.  I don’t allow myself to have friends anymore though and I’m rarely around my family.  Maybe it’s a self defense mechanism, maybe I don’t feel like anyone gets me, maybe I feel like No one gives a shit, maybe I’m just depressed.  I’ve been this way for years.  A lot of it I also blame on religious indoctrination because I see the horrible effects its had on my life.  Here you will find people much like yourself.  Don’t let anyone ever make you feel like you’re less than.  You have so much potential and you can take joy in whatever you want to, whenever you want.  There’s nothing that says anyone has to be happy all of the time.  It’s okay to not feel good or happy all of the time.  I however do hope you can eventually feel happy sometimes.  You deserve that. 

 

My fear that affects my ability to recover is my fear of the possibility that universe's history will repeat and so will my actions, thoughts, feelings, reactions, mental health and experiences.

 

I am very deep into physics, and science, and so my reason for my fear is that the universe is deterministic, hence many cosmologists and physicists know that the past, present, and future all exist and are unchanging static frames, and the seeming flow of time progressing is a result of entropy (the arrow of time).

 

The 2nd Law of thermodynamics (entropy cannot decrease) has been broken in experiments, but not only that, other theorems and theories such as poincare's recurrence theorem, the big crunch model, cyclic cosmology models, and mirror universe model also, have me stressed out by worry as well. 

 

Therefore I am fearful that everything may go back to the beginning of time where the same events fold out again and therefore so will my experiences, my religious upbringing, religious/superstitious paranoias, and my outright horrible mental illness I had when I was 13 years old.

 

But even if it is impossible for the universe's history (and therefore ourselves) to repeat, the biggest issue with my recovery is the trauma religion has left in me alongside my constant sadness over the fact that I turned out this way when it could have been different. 

 

The biggest punch in the gut from this was that I could have spent quality time with my cat who I had grown up with and had the strongest connection with.

 

The pain of all this is the fact that I wished my cat was still here so I could spend time with her, cradle the fluffy girl in my arms, as well as acknowledge her existence, if only I had become an athiest before I had lost my mind, which will NEVER be a reality.

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10 minutes ago, HoneyBib said:

 

My fear that affects my ability to recover is my fear of the possibility that universe's history will repeat and so will my actions, thoughts, feelings, reactions, mental health and experiences.

 

I am very deep into physics, and science, and so my reason for my fear is that the universe is deterministic, hence many cosmologists and physicists know that the past, present, and future all exist and are unchanging static frames, and the seeming flow of time progressing is a result of entropy (the arrow of time).

 

The 2nd Law of thermodynamics (entropy cannot decrease) has been broken in experiments, but not only that, other theorems and theories such as poincare's recurrence theorem, the big crunch model, cyclic cosmology models, and mirror universe model also, have me stressed out by worry as well. 

 

Therefore I am fearful that everything may go back to the beginning of time where the same events fold out again and therefore so will my experiences, my religious upbringing, religious/superstitious paranoias, and my outright horrible mental illness I had when I was 13 years old.

 

But even if it is impossible for the universe's history (and therefore ourselves) to repeat, the biggest issue with my recovery is the trauma religion has left in me alongside my constant sadness over the fact that I turned out this way when it could have been different. 

 

The biggest punch in the gut from this was that I could have spent quality time with my cat who I had grown up with and had the strongest connection with.

 

The pain of all this is the fact that I wished my cat was still here so I could spend time with her, cradle the fluffy girl in my arms, as well as acknowledge her existence, if only I had become an athiest before I had lost my mind, which will NEVER be a reality.

Maybe this is something you don’t say to someone who tells you they have lost their mind but to me you seem to be in a fairly fine state of mind. You seem highly intelligent also.  My advice will probably seem simplistic to you and one of those things that’s easier said than done but I believe what I’m going to say is valuable.  Try to not worry about what possible future outcomes will be. Hold dear to the only life that you know for sure you have.  I am sorry to hear about your cat.  I have 3 and I know how dear they are to me. Any possibility you could get another cat?  It seems like you have a lot of love to give and there’s a lot of cats out there who I am sure would love to be adopted by you. I don’t know exactly what mental issues you are facing but I do hope you talk with someone about it. I am sorry your family and church are offering you no support in this matter and are blaming you.  Medication may help and there is no shame in teaching out.  

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the mental illness

3 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Maybe this is something you don’t say to someone who tells you they have lost their mind but to me you seem to be in a fairly fine state of mind. You seem highly intelligent also.  My advice will probably seem simplistic to you and one of those things that’s easier said than done but I believe what I’m going to say is valuable.  Try to not worry about what possible future outcomes will be. Hold dear to the only life that you know for sure you have.  I am sorry to hear about your cat.  I have 3 and I know how dear they are to me. Any possibility you could get another cat?  It seems like you have a lot of love to give and there’s a lot of cats out there who I am sure would love to be adopted by you. I don’t know exactly what mental issues you are facing but I do hope you talk with someone about it. I am sorry your family and church are offering you no support in this matter and are blaming you.  Medication may help and there is no shame in teaching out.  

My issues are trauma from the years of my anxiety especially the anxiety I had when I was 13, and because I am a slow griever, I am still grieving my cat who I lost on New years day 2018.

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8 minutes ago, HoneyBib said:

the mental illness

My issues are trauma from the years of my anxiety especially the anxiety I had when I was 13, and because I am a slow griever, I am still grieving my cat who I lost on New years day 2018.

I too suffer from anxiety. Also depression and panic attacks and ocd and probably some other things. I’m not getting help either and probably should.  I’m literally forcing myself everyday to just deal with it although I know I shouldn’t just do that.  I hope we both get mentally healthy.  I’m here for you.  Again, I’m sorry about your loss.  

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4 hours ago, Mandy said:

I too suffer from anxiety. Also depression and panic attacks and ocd and probably some other things. I’m not getting help either and probably should.  I’m literally forcing myself everyday to just deal with it although I know I shouldn’t just do that.  I hope we both get mentally healthy.  I’m here for you.  Again, I’m sorry about your loss.  

I really do hope that one day I do recover, but I doubt I will ever be my old self again.

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Hello HoneyBib,

 

I’m so sorry for the problems you’ve had in your life and the sadness you’ve endured.  Nobody should have to suffer like that, least of all such a young person.  I see you’re seventeen - what a wonderful age!  It may not feel like that now, but you are on the brink of all that life has to offer, and there is so much out there to look forward to, especially for somebody as smart and articulate as you are!  

 

It it may seem like you have no friends, but that’s not true anymore, you have us now.  See how Mandy reached out to you last night and offered her support and encouragement (Hi Mandy!  I haven’t welcomed you yet, but I’ll get back with you!) This community is full of good people who support each other every day.  We may not be able to offer physical hugs but we are as real as your own family and we really do care.  We’ve been through a lot together!  You can come here anytime and share your thoughts, ask questions, whatever.  Not all of us here consider ourselves atheists, but most of us do consider ourselves humanists: we put people first, certainly before theology or deities.  We want to help each other, whether our old friends that have been here for years or the new members like yourself who just showed up on our doorstep.  We take everybody in - no matter what you believe or don’t believe.

 

I’m sorry for the loss of your dear cat.  I’m a pet lover myself and I know how it feels.  I know it’s been harder for you because it seems like she was your only friend.  I hope you will look for another kitty (or maybe a dog?) to take into your heart.  There’s one out there that needs your hugs!  And don’t think you’re being disloyal to your old cat by taking in another: your cat would want you to be happy.   So I hope you meet your next pet very soon!  

 

I hope it it helps to know that we care about you.  You’re not alone anymore.

 

Big Hug

-TABA

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I'm not really good at offering words of solace and comfort; so I usually don't comment on these threads.  But the one thing that comes to my mind, HoneyBib, is don't write yourself off so easily.  Don't sell yourself short.  You have a lot of potential (every human does); and you're still young, which means you haven't even begun to realize the full extent of the potential you have.

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3 hours ago, HoneyBib said:

I really do hope that one day I do recover, but I doubt I will ever be my old self again.

You are young and people can turn their lives around at any point for the better.  You may not ever be your friend of self, you may find yourself being even better.  Hugs and I hope to see you around HoneyBib!

 

Also hello thereandbackagain. 

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15 hours ago, HoneyBib said:

But even if it is impossible for the universe's history (and therefore ourselves) to repeat, the biggest issue with my recovery is the trauma religion has left in me alongside my constant sadness over the fact that I turned out this way when it could have been different. 

 

I'm so very sorry about your struggles. As far as anyone knows, things won't repeat. It's never happened before, so there's no reason to think it will now.


Religion will seriously mess people up. I don't think religion messed me up much, but I was still really depressed in my late teens. It's just a really hard time of life for many of us! I hope you find some real friends on this site, and also in real life. And please take some hope from the fact that part of your struggle stems from the fact that you really are at a tough age, and that as you get older things should get better, to some extent, by themselves.

 

I know you've not found any help from counselors, but have you tried a psychiatrist? My wife could not live without her SSRIs, and the appropriate medicine may really change your life for the better. Mental health is physical health. Your brain is an organ as much as your heart and liver. If you were diabetic, you'd take insulin. If you had high blood pressure, you'd take something for that. If something is available for your mental health, take advantage of it.

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Hi Honeybib,

 

Glad you’re here with us. I’m going through some depression as well. Right now it’s a combination of breaking out of the world view that my family and community put me in and learning the personal skills I need to be the human being that I want to be every day.

 

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Thank you all for the support, I simply do not know how to cope with a seemingly scientifically plausible fear that I have no scientist knows is real or not, as well as being unable to let go of my cat, she was what I considered as important as another human was to me, after all, cats, like most animals, have been scientifically confirmed to be conscious, and cats have the intelligence of a 2 year old child, and to me, that makes a cat even more adorable since it is just like having a 2 year old child.

 

I also have memories of being 2 years old, and I remember how basic my thinking used to be as a 2 year old.

 

All the more reason I miss my cat.

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Hi HoneyBib and welcome to our little corner of the world here. I too am so sorry to hear that you are so sad and frightened. There are some possible similarities between experiences you briefly mention and events that occurred in my life when I was in my early twenties. The good news is that I did get better. It sounds likely that you experienced some kind of shift when you were 13 meaning your life sort of jumped track and you have moved along since in a different place on a different track with a different landscape. The shift occurred due to negative frightening events and you can never go back and get on the same track you were on but your train is still moving and the new landscape will not be all barren and sunless if you can just hang on one day at a time. Perhaps something in your mind was overwhelmed and temporarily lost it’s ability to produce a necessary feel good chemical or temporarily couldn’t make some - important to you mental well being - electrical connections. If your case is like mine was then these things will very slowly repair themselves to a large extent although you will not be just as you were before. Definitely you should not feel the emptiness you feel now but some of the intensity of feelings you previously had will probably be lost. Real easily identifiable happiness will return with greater and greater frequency and you can then put your new life together and with the wisdom of having seen what things caused you harm you can build in safeguards and protect yourself from ever being hurt like that again. You are so very young that the vast majority of your life is ahead. I get the impression that you are being careful and thoughtful with yourself and that is very important as is learning to be that good supportive patient parent to yourself the one that you may never have had. Those kind of panicked feelings that something horrible is just around the corner should become less frequent and less intense with time and although this is a slow process it should start happening so if it doesn’t you should probably seek out some professional help. The abilities and sincerity of mental health workers runs the spectrum so you have to be aware of that and use recommendations from people you trust and then trust your gut instincts which may well be better than most given you history. Hopefully you can get where you long to be with self help. That is the path that Mandy is traveling and it is the path that I was able to make work for me. Just keep monitoring yourself and seek some high quality help if you need it. Marlene Winell specializes in the damages caused by these cult like religions and can help you assess your state of mind and find a good path forward.    http://marlenewinell.net/recovery-harmful-religion.           Pease keep us posted regarding your journey and recovery.

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Hi HB.  We are here for you!  I echo Mandy - you are super smart!  Which can cause increased anxiety - knowing and being aware of all that could go wrong...  It has huge survival advantages, but it stinks to live with!  I envy blissfully ignorant people sometimes!!

 

Anyway, there's a lot of good advice here.  One thing I would say, being a smarter-than-average-anxiety-sufferer myself, is that my mind constantly inserts my present emotions into what seem like totally dispassionate, cool, logical thoughts.   For example, when I am anxious, I can think of very rational, logical reasons to be concerned about the future - that seem totally legit.

 

What I'm getting at:  anything that you do that can elevate your mood will spill over into your logical assessment of your future.

 

But you can't *think* your way into a better place emotionally.  You're too smart and aware and analytical 😃

 

I recommend immersing yourself in things you enjoy - simple pleasures.  For me it's a homemade espresso, my fireplace, playing the piano, and sitting with my dog.

 

Eat well, exercise, and try to get a lot of rest.  There is good evidence that taking care of your body will help your brain too.

 

All the best to you.

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5 hours ago, Insightful said:

 

I recommend immersing yourself in things you enjoy - simple pleasures.  For me it's a homemade espresso, my fireplace, playing the piano, and sitting with my dog.

 

Eat well, exercise, and try to get a lot of rest.  There is good evidence that taking care of your body will help your brain too.

 

All the best to you.

 

I force myself to do these things daily, and I am aware that ageing could be 'cured' within my lifetime, but at the same time, I am worried that I could either become too age-degraded or even be dead before a 'cure' arrives, I know that these enjoyments, whilst they do provide me distractment, they fly fast like time itself does.

 

I am not afraid of death itself, but I am afraid of the unknowns of Space-time and the possibility that if I do die, I may unknowingly 'find' myself back at the start of my own life to unknowingly repeat all the experiences described above including this post.

 

Think of Nietzsche's Eternal Return/Reoccurrence thought experiment, but instead of it being philosophical it is an actual reality, and this makes me cry knowing that I cannot change the past and I may never know if the Universe's history or my own conscious experience within my history repeats or not, this makes me feel trapped and depressed since I may be doomed to re-experience my anxieties, mental illnesses as well as my lack of quality time with my cat, forever.

 

 

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Hi, Honeybib. You're not alone. We are all here for you. 

I, too, lost a cat last year. She was family to me, and I treated her death as such.

You seem super-intelligent, which can, in itself, bring on anxiety. It's not easy, but keep fighting it. You can overcome it--and you don't need some invisible man in the sky to help you. Best wishes.

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Hmm, likewise I am not one to know to give proper solace. But I know the racing thoughts issues. Good therapy ( substance and talk, or some other thing CAN be good, I am a witness to it . I also know how it is to be blamed for mental problems and just barely not going off, being caught by fear form many angles. 

 

Well, you seem to have a problem with uncertainty and suffering. I have, and most have. I do not think there is one easy answer, or one for everyone. Philosophically, the essays of Camus I think actually saved my life in my early twenties. But even Christians struggle with this, the God's judgement is ultimately unknowable. So this is not going be easy or pretty, but worthwhile and wondorous. How do you live in a world you do not know? Nicholas Nassim Taleb has some insights. But this is your journey. There are numerous religious, philosophical and scientific aides, plus your senses and mind, that can help you on the way. 

 

Also you seem to need real help in grieving your losses. Grieving is a natural, healthy, healing process. 

 

Do not get too attached to scientific theories. They are mere temporary instruments on the road to discovery. They come and go, collide and commune. 

 

 

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On 1/19/2019 at 7:49 PM, Insightful said:

But you can't *think* your way into a better place emotionally.  You're too smart and aware and analytical

 

I did.  Almost nine years ago. And, have continually stayed in that place since. 

 

It may be difficult to do, but it can be done.

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