Whoever came up with this shit, thanks a lot

[Mandy]

I wish my parents could have a relationship with me that wasn’t intrinsically intertwined with the belief in god.  Everything in their lives though now revolves around god.  Even when I still held that same belief in god, although I didn’t accept their same version of it all, for me the fact that everything in their lives revolved around god was a problem.  I was and am still hurt that they only have time for church and won’t come visit me and my children.  When they do come it is rare.  

 

I understand fully the scripture in Matthew 10:34-37.  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.  He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.  

 

Sadly I understand this as I am certain my parents have taken this to heart and live their lives accordingly.  I will NEVER love anything or anyone more than my own children and any god that arrogantly demands such obedience and gives itself such utter importance is not worth even my consideration and has lost my respect.  I have always struggled with concepts as such.  Loving god more, forgiving people when they don’t deserve it just because you’re afraid of not being forgiven for supposed sins, the biggest of which original sin isn’t even your own.  The idea of sin itself.  You call it sinful, I call it being a human being.  

 

I’m getting away from my main point though.  I have lost my family to this god and it pisses me off.  I hate their preacher.  He and I already had issues because he said I was never actually a real Christian because I drank.  He said I believed in another Jesus than he did.  Well now I don’t believe in Jesus at all and I stopped drinking on my own without the help of any imaginary god 7 months ago.  Not because I thought it was immoral but because it wasn’t healthy in the manner I was doing it or for the reasons I was doing it.  

 

My family dynamic before my dad turned his life over to Christ was his alcoholism and abuse.  That’s what our lives rotated around.  I couldn’t be around him because of it hardly.  My Mom couldn’t do anything due to it.  Now that they are in church it’s much the same bullshit.  Drunk on the blood. 

 

I didn’t think a person had to attend church when I believed but they did and that was a huge conflict. They wanted me to bring my kids to their church although I had already told them that I thought their church was a cult.  I don’t want to step foot back in there but know that their funerals will be there.  I know they will continue asking me to go there although they know I don’t want to.  They have zero respect for me, my feelings, and don’t understand boundaries or that I am entitled to believe and feel and rationalize things however I want.  Why can’t they just live in their fantasy world and let me enjoy reality???

 

Why did a bible have to be written instructing people to love some imaginary god more than people’s own families? What use is this to turn people against one another?  What use was a god of hatred??  Why did they not write about a god come to bring peace??  I just want to thank the assholes who came up with this shit.  You know what, fuck you.  If there were a hell, the people who created this imaginary horseshit deserve to spend their eternity in it.  I don’t even understand how they could live with themselves or sleep at night.  I guess much the way that people who commit atrocities in the name of their god do.  I just don’t get it. 

[Myrkhoos]

Wow, really sorry you had to go through this, Good thing you expressed these feelings. It is and still going to be hard to process all of it.

 

Although I think you already know the official answer and are angry at it, one of the points is that God is actually your most closest "relative". Also, this God is the "source of life" . In this light it is obvious why believers cherish this connection above all else. Actually, they consider it impossible to have a true relationship with another person lacking a relationship with the God image. For them , their 'God" seems to be as real as your children are to you. They might think that your problem is a lack of relationship with Him, and if you had it, you would not need anybody else. Or you need them very little. So it is your problem, not theirs. 

 

Logically it quite easy to understand. Right and wrong is what God commands. That is the way they view the world. Does God order killing and torturing small infants. It is right. Does he not? It is wrong. So right and wrong is about God's will. That is the ONLY criterion of judgement. So if they think cutting all ties to you would be God's will, they would do it. 

 

Below is a fragment from The Ladder, its author considered to be John of Sinai, an abbot in monastery in mount Sinai in Egypt, in the 6th century. This what he says about discernment. Pay close attention because this books is THE staple in Orthodox monastic life and christianity in general and contains quite explicit views about the opinion about self-will and surrendering to the WILL OF GOD, and how to do it.

 

"Those who wish to learn the will of the Lord must first mortify their own will. Then, having prayed to God with faith and honest simplicity, and having asked the fathers or even the brothers with humility of heart and no thought of doubt, they should accept their advice as from the mouth of God, even if their advice be contrary to their own view, and even if those consulted are not very spiritual. For God is not unjust, and will not lead astray souls who with faith and innocence humbly submit to the advice and judgment of their neighbour. Even if those who were asked were brute beasts, yet He who speaks is the Immaterial and Invisible One"

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Read the first few paragraphs of my extimony, especially the art about the Russian soldiers.

 

 

[Derek]

I can identify with you, Mandy. My parents' lives completely revolved around the church, and their only concern was appeasing the invisible man in the sky. Your children are more important than anything else---including that religious crap. Teach them to think for themselves, and they should be fine. That's how we raised our daughter...now she is an agnostic who recently convocated from university with a bachelor of arts degree. She is her own person---and I am insanely proud of her.

Unfortunately, most people in the church are blind, and for some reason, they don't want to see.

I can identify with your anger completely.

[Geezer]

When people buy into the idea the Bible is literally true and historically accurate, they willingly relinquish their brain to the church and become obedient mind numbed slaves. They become part of the cult and are soon fluent in Christian speak. The church and the Bible becomes their master and they lose track of reality. 

 

 

[◊ DestinyTurtle ◊]

Thank you for sharing this, @Mandy. I feel you. I feel as though a long-dead a**hole theologian robbed me of a father and of a family, and sometimes this fills me with anger. 

 

The "I will not love my family more than Jesus" people don't love Jesus ; They love that Jesus is a convenient excuse for not loving the people in their lives they know they are responsible for loving. I no longer identify as Xian but if I did I would say "If Jesus is your excuse perhaps he is not your savior." Selfish, irresponsible people will always find some twisted logic to justify their selfishness in sanctimonious BS, whether it be Xianity or something else. 

 

[Mandy]

17 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Read the first few paragraphs of my extimony, especially the art about the Russian soldiers.

 

 

I read it all.  I like how you said that one woman made the fires of hell seem like a mere campfire.  

[Mandy]

14 hours ago, Geezer said:

When people buy into the idea the Bible is literally true and historically accurate, they willingly relinquish their brain to the church and become obedient mind numbed slaves. They become part of the cult and are soon fluent in Christian speak. The church and the Bible becomes their master and they lose track of reality. 

 

 

For me to have ever believed at all required me to dumb myself down, to put on the blinders.  Just for me to simply believe and attend as little as I did required that.  I feel sorry for people who  just turn it all off. I feel sorry for them but still I am angry because of their choice in the matter.  Go to church, that’s their business but make time for me and my kids.  At least don’t throw shade saying maybe I should come over sometime.  Ugh.  It’s a one way street I swear. 

[Mandy]

18 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

Wow, really sorry you had to go through this, Good thing you expressed these feelings. It is and still going to be hard to process all of it.

 

Although I think you already know the official answer and are angry at it, one of the points is that God is actually your most closest "relative". Also, this God is the "source of life" . In this light it is obvious why believers cherish this connection above all else. Actually, they consider it impossible to have a true relationship with another person lacking a relationship with the God image. For them , their 'God" seems to be as real as your children are to you. They might think that your problem is a lack of relationship with Him, and if you had it, you would not need anybody else. Or you need them very little. So it is your problem, not theirs. 

 

Logically it quite easy to understand. Right and wrong is what God commands. That is the way they view the world. Does God order killing and torturing small infants. It is right. Does he not? It is wrong. So right and wrong is about God's will. That is the ONLY criterion of judgement. So if they think cutting all ties to you would be God's will, they would do it. 

 

Below is a fragment from The Ladder, its author considered to be John of Sinai, an abbot in monastery in mount Sinai in Egypt, in the 6th century. This what he says about discernment. Pay close attention because this books is THE staple in Orthodox monastic life and christianity in general and contains quite explicit views about the opinion about self-will and surrendering to the WILL OF GOD, and how to do it.

 

"Those who wish to learn the will of the Lord must first mortify their own will. Then, having prayed to God with faith and honest simplicity, and having asked the fathers or even the brothers with humility of heart and no thought of doubt, they should accept their advice as from the mouth of God, even if their advice be contrary to their own view, and even if those consulted are not very spiritual. For God is not unjust, and will not lead astray souls who with faith and innocence humbly submit to the advice and judgment of their neighbour. Even if those who were asked were brute beasts, yet He who speaks is the Immaterial and Invisible One"

Thank you. Even when I considered myself a believer I couldn’t reconcile the thought of allowing an ancient book or the god in that book to dictate every action in my life.  I always knew I would never be able to or even want to do that.  I am just not that person and I am so glad for that.  I can’t imagine being them and not knowing what it is like to think for myself, to form my own opinions.  To feel worthy of having an opinion, an idea, or a thought.  I think it’s so sad how religion not only steals peoples identities but takes over their thought process.  

[Mandy]

17 hours ago, Derek said:

I can identify with you, Mandy. My parents' lives completely revolved around the church, and their only concern was appeasing the invisible man in the sky. Your children are more important than anything else---including that religious crap. Teach them to think for themselves, and they should be fine. That's how we raised our daughter...now she is an agnostic who recently convocated from university with a bachelor of arts degree. She is her own person---and I am insanely proud of her.

Unfortunately, most people in the church are blind, and for some reason, they don't want to see.

I can identify with your anger completely.

It’s seems so many of our stories resemble one another and I find it fascinating and quite depressing how many of us share the same reactions.  It’s so sad what religion does to people, the backlash of getting out of it as well as being in it.  

[Mandy]

14 hours ago, DestinyTurtle said:

Thank you for sharing this, @Mandy. I feel you. I feel as though a long-dead a**hole theologian robbed me of a father and of a family, and sometimes this fills me with anger. 

 

The "I will not love my family more than Jesus" people don't love Jesus ; They love that Jesus is a convenient excuse for not loving the people in their lives they know they are responsible for loving. I no longer identify as Xian but if I did I would say "If Jesus is your excuse perhaps he is not your savior." Selfish, irresponsible people will always find some twisted logic to justify their selfishness in sanctimonious BS, whether it be Xianity or something else. 

 

So true but I’m pretty sure mine actually do love their Jesus character.  That and they seem to love their church family.  I know my parents love me but I don’t feel valued since they have all of this.  Am I jealous?  Maybe.  A part of me doesn’t really care though because just after awhile together something is most often said or done which makes my blood boil and my head explode.  It’s probably best we see each other less but it’s sad because life is short. 

[TruthSeeker0]

@Mandy I have a lot of the same feelings. It's hard to accept that religion has forever poisoned relationships that could have actually existed if it were not for that. I'm slowly coming to accept this reality and that I can't do anything to change it. 

What I can do is enforce the boundaries, by telling them what is unacceptable behavior. Ultimately, my goal is to build my own "family," and biology will not be the basis, but unconditional acceptance of myself will. 

[♦ Fuego ♦]

And there comes a point where toxic people, regardless of who they are, should be excluded from one's life. I've begun trimming out the remaining ones. I rarely see my fundy relatives, and when I do it is almost always in a non-religious context. The ones that live closer to me seem to have excluded me already, so I don't even try to contact them. There is no changing them.

 

Your own choices for your life are powerful and can take you places that are wonderful and fulfilling for you. You don't need anyone's permission or approval, and it is really best to stop looking for it, especially from those that are devoted to an insane cult. Some people from my past were very manipulative and controlling personalities, and I cut them out of my life. I owe them nothing. Any nostalgia from the past is the past, and I am a different person who chooses not to subject myself to their condemnation and manipulation. As angry as that may sound, it is more healthful than angry. If one keeps taking a small dose of poison, one will never be well. Don't take the poison ever again, and take in the good stuff. Be around those that build you up as a person, who are kind and thoughtful, loyal and helpful and creative.

[ConsiderTheSource]

10 hours ago, Fuego said:

Your own choices for your life are powerful and can take you places that are wonderful and fulfilling for you. You don't need anyone's permission or approval, and it is really best to stop looking for it, especially from those that are devoted to an insane cult. 

 

Fuego, you always seem to hit the center of the dartboard.  Almost every single time.  I am both impressed, and grateful you are here on this board.

 

Folks, your choices can be powerful.  And they are all your's.  They need no review or preview from any outside party.  But, these choices will never become powerful until you exercise the choices you are craving to make.  Do it.

[Wertbag]

God not only punishes you for the original sin, which wasn't your fault, but is constantly cursing innocent people for others crimes:

 https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/iniquity.html

Thats a just and merciful god right there.