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2 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

You know how people you haven't heard from in years suddenly pop up.... wonder if god is trying that trick? He's giving you 'hints'... like triggering's :D 

 

Great, that means he's got an MLM opportunity he thinks I might be interested in. 

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Multi level marketing?

 

Oooh you want to stay away from those. Very bad they are - suck you in with promises then spit you out in tears.... actually that sounds like religion. :scratch:

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58 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

Multi level marketing?

 

Oooh you want to stay away from those. Very bad they are - suck you in with promises then spit you out in tears.... actually that sounds like religion. :scratch:

Surprise! The two of them often go hand in hand. 

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The wall should have been built by the indigenous people who were here in 1492.

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14 minutes ago, older said:

The wall should have been built by the indigenous people who were here in 1492.

Hear hear! It rather annoys me how many descendants of immigrants to this continent are completely ignorant of its colonialist history, and even if you try educate them, some of them have enough gumption to start talking about how the indigenous population used a land bridge and they're not native to this countinent either blah blah blah...and of course they entirely miss the point.

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4 hours ago, older said:

The wall should have been built by the indigenous people who were here in 1492.

 

Bloody oath! Isn't it funny how people forget how they came to be in a country, but now that they are there and sitting pretty... STOP IMMIGRATION. Oooh thank goodness they didn't have all this border control stuff back when great grandpappy was making his journey.

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11 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

You know how people you haven't heard from in years suddenly pop up.... wonder if god is trying that trick? He's giving you 'hints'... like triggering's :D 

Ah Hell I always used to look for signs that God was trying to send me. There is no telling how many dumbass decisions I made based on a “sign from God”. Of course all my sermons were “given to me by God.” But Ironically my sermons usually revolved around whatever knews was making the tv. Or some pet pieve subject of mine. 

 

DB

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6 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

Ah Hell I always used to look for signs that God was trying to send me. There is no telling how many dumbass decisions I made based on a “sign from God”. Of course all my sermons were “given to me by God.” But Ironically my sermons usually revolved around whatever knews was making the tv. Or some pet pieve subject of mine. 

 

DB

 

Yep... sounds like my father's preaching. Probably not an uncommon theme.

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15 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Bloody oath! Isn't it funny how people forget how they came to be in a country, but now that they are there and sitting pretty... STOP IMMIGRATION. Oooh thank goodness they didn't have all this border control stuff back when great grandpappy was making his journey.

 

Actually they did.  It was called Ellis Island.

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This is true. Everyone went through there before going to the mainland. 

 

It amazes me that everyone wants to argue this point from the angle that we are a country of immigrants how can we close our borders and build a wall? At what point do Americans get to be Americans and not a land of immigrants in other countries eyes? I’m pretty sure most countries were at some point populated by immigrants. And there are a lot of other countries with stricter immigration laws than ours. If we build a wall. It’s our damn wall. Get over it. 

 

I don’t think that a wall is the the end all be all answer. But it’s worth a shot. We don’t know if it will help unless we build it. Like I said before. We can build a wall on the north side for all I care. It’s our country. Our immigration problem. And not really anyone else’s business. We wouldn’t be the first country to build one. 

 

DB

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This thread needs peer review.

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We should build a wall along the Eastern border to keep the fucking Ukrainians out.

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1 hour ago, DarkBishop said:

This is true. Everyone went through there before going to the mainland. 

 

It amazes me that everyone wants to argue this point from the angle that we are a country of immigrants how can we close our borders and build a wall? At what point do Americans get to be Americans and not a land of immigrants in other countries eyes? I’m pretty sure most countries were at some point populated by immigrants. And there are a lot of other countries with stricter immigration laws than ours. If we build a wall. It’s our damn wall. Get over it. 

 

I don’t think that a wall is the the end all be all answer. But it’s worth a shot. We don’t know if it will help unless we build it. Like I said before. We can build a wall on the north side for all I care. It’s our country. Our immigration problem. And not really anyone else’s business. We wouldn’t be the first country to build one. 

 

DB

Well it's apparent in all this discussion we aren't so much discussing walls, as attitudes towards other human beings.

Those of us who regard ourselves primarily as citizens of planet earth have trouble relating to your perspective. I'm a citizen of earth first, a citizen of Canada second, and I'm not a fan of nationalism and isolationism.

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16 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

We should build a wall along the Eastern border to keep the fucking Ukrainians out.

LOL we got very good walls along the east and west borders. I like to call them the Atlantic and the Pacific. Them damn Ukrainians must have one hell of a ladder to sneak in illegally.

 

DB

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Just now, DarkBishop said:

LOL we got very good walls along the east and west borders. I like to call them the Atlantic and the Pacific. Them damn Ukrainians must have one hell of a ladder to sneak in illegally.

 

DB

The problem is that oceans can be crossed via aircraft and ships.  Not like an impenetrable wall, or a huge-ass fucking desert.

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1 minute ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

Well it's apparent in all this discussion we aren't so much discussing walls, as attitudes towards other human beings.

Those of us who regard ourselves primarily as citizens of planet earth have trouble relating to your perspective. I'm a citizen of earth first, a citizen of Canada second, and I'm not a fan of nationalism and isolationism.

I'm a fan of knowing who is coming in and out of my home. People want to argue that they do the jobs we don't want to do. Well I don't like dishes or doing laundry. But if a stranger breaks into my house and starts cleaning my house, I'm not going to greet them with open arms. Even if they are doing the jobs I don't want to do.

 

America is my home. And we have people coming in without any documentation. At least if they have to fly here or go through a gate entrance we have a paper trail that they came here and never left. We know who is here and who isn't. If we need to find them we have a starting point. I  would like to know how you would feel about it if you had the same problem with Americans'. Ya couldn't call it a race issue then. But if we were illegally migrating to Canada and costing the government which you fund with your hard earned tax money billions. How would you feel about building a wall along your southern border.

 

Some of the arguments I'm hearing are from countries that are completely surrounded by water and have no need of a border wall. Or do not have the problem we have. I never see many news articles of the multitude of Americans' coming over the border to get medical treatment with Canada's universal health care program.

 

As far as Americas humanitarian efforts? In modern history how many times has America helped countries in need? Our humanitarian efforts cost in the billions as well. It has been a long time since I've looked it up but we do a lot.

 

I in no way see your point on the isolationism comment. it isn't the Berlin wall we are talking about here. It isn't a wall to keep people out or to hold our people in. It's a wall to force people to come in legally. That my friend is a big difference. We are a huge international hub of transportation. We have people coming from all over the world every day. A wall would not make it isolationism.

 

As far as Nationalism. We have had our nose in everybody's koolaid for way to long. And if America doesn't put our interests first who will? Canada isn't going to take care of America. China isn't. To suggest a nation shouldn't look out for their own interests doesn't even make good sense. I would hope you as a Canadian want the best for your country. If you are promoting agendas that you know will hurt your country your not a very good countryman.

 

DB

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21 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

The problem is that oceans can be crossed via aircraft and ships.  Not like an impenetrable wall, or a huge-ass fucking desert.

so are you serious about the Ukrainians? I though you were being sarcastic.

 

DB

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4 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

so are you serious about the Ukrainians? I though you were being sarcastic.

 

DB

I was being sarcastic... about the wall.

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10 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

DB,

 

Now you an EBIL RACIST for DARING to put America and Americans first.  ;)

 

I actually like a lot of your more sincere posts BO. You just like to take it a bit to far at times and seems more like trolling. I know you have a longer history here than me. But you do have your good points.

 

DB

 

ps. And your right. Even though my support for a wall in no ways based on race. I’m sure in someone’s eyes I’m racist bc I support it. 

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35 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

I'm a fan of knowing who is coming in and out of my home. People want to argue that they do the jobs we don't want to do. Well I don't like dishes or doing laundry. But if a stranger breaks into my house and starts cleaning my house, I'm not going to greet them with open arms. Even if they are doing the jobs I don't want to do.

 

America is my home. And we have people coming in without any documentation. At least if they have to fly here or go through a gate entrance we have a paper trail that they came here and never left. We know who is here and who isn't. If we need to find them we have a starting point. I  would like to know how you would feel about it if you had the same problem with Americans'. Ya couldn't call it a race issue then. But if we were illegally migrating to Canada and costing the government which you fund with your hard earned tax money billions. How would you feel about building a wall along your southern border.

 

Some of the arguments I'm hearing are from countries that are completely surrounded by water and have no need of a border wall. Or do not have the problem we have. I never see many news articles of the multitude of Americans' coming over the border to get medical treatment with Canada's universal health care program.

 

As far as Americas humanitarian efforts? In modern history how many times has America helped countries in need? Our humanitarian efforts cost in the billions as well. It has been a long time since I've looked it up but we do a lot.

 

I in no way see your point on the isolationism comment. it isn't the Berlin wall we are talking about here. It isn't a wall to keep people out or to hold our people in. It's a wall to force people to come in legally. That my friend is a big difference. We are a huge international hub of transportation. We have people coming from all over the world every day. A wall would not make it isolationism.

 

As far as Nationalism. We have had our nose in everybody's koolaid for way to long. And if America doesn't put our interests first who will? Canada isn't going to take care of America. China isn't. To suggest a nation shouldn't look out for their own interests doesn't even make good sense. I would hope you as a Canadian want the best for your country. If you are promoting agendas that you know will hurt your country your not a very good countryman.

 

DB

DB, I'm just stating my perspective, don't feel a need to defend yours, you're entitled to your opinion like anyone else. I just think differently, is all, and was stating how I think differently.

The reasons why the Americans aren't coming over the border for health care is because they aren't covered here. You have to be a resident of the province you live in to be covered. I'm not sure what your point is with that statement?

We do get illegals just like the States does, we're not special in that way. Yes we have debates about border security but thus far they have not blown up like they have in the US.

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7 minutes ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

DB, I'm just stating my perspective, don't feel a need to defend yours, you're entitled to your opinion like anyone else. I just think differently, is all, and was stating how I think differently.

The reasons why the Americans aren't coming over the border for health care is because they aren't covered here. You have to be a resident of the province you live in to be covered. I'm not sure what your point is with that statement?

We do get illegals just like the States does, we're not special in that way. Yes we have debates about border security but thus far they have not blown up like they have in the US.

Dont worry its still all good. It’s not like I’m mad or ranting. I’m explaining to you why we are considering this. We are getting flak from multiple directions and I think a lot of it is because of media propaganda and not understanding everyone’s perspective. 

 

Ok I’m going to guess that since you didn’t answer the question. That if you had the problem we had you would possibly consider it. 

 

I brought the the health care issue up because we do have people coming over the border for treatment and out laws require that they be treated in emergency situations. Then they leave and don’t pay their debt. That has cost hospitals millions. Which eventually filters to the tax payer. 

 

You accused us of promoting isolationism and nationalism with your perspective. Ya gotta go in defense mode when your miss labeled like that. 

 

I hope when border security debates blow up in Canada y’all catch less flak for whatever you decide to do about it. 

 

DB

 

 

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6 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

hope when border security debates blow up in Canada y’all catch less flak for whatever you decide to do about it. 

From an outside view it seems that all the flak is internal. The claims of racism and money wasting seems to be coming from left leaning Americans. There really hasn't been any international condemnation, other than Mexico being annoyed at being told they would pay. 

Seems an almost 50/50 split in opinion. 

 

I think the harder question is what you do with people born and raised in America who are illegal. Deporting to a country they've never been to, don't speak the language and have no support is pretty harsh. It would be punishing children for the crimes of the parents. But they are illegal, so how to handle them in a fair way that doesn't set a bad precedent. 

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4 hours ago, Wertbag said:

From an outside view it seems that all the flak is internal. The claims of racism and money wasting seems to be coming from left leaning Americans. There really hasn't been any international condemnation, other than Mexico being annoyed at being told they would pay. 

Seems an almost 50/50 split in opinion. 

 

I think the harder question is what you do with people born and raised in America who are illegal. Deporting to a country they've never been to, don't speak the language and have no support is pretty harsh. It would be punishing children for the crimes of the parents. But they are illegal, so how to handle them in a fair way that doesn't set a bad precedent. 

Well I would say that stemming the flow of new illegals should be the first step. Then possibly legalizing the existing illegals should be the next. I think that would be a fair compromise. 

 

That is something Obama wanted to do anyway so that should help with the debate if they would throw it in there. 

 

DB

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19 hours ago, Wertbag said:

From an outside view it seems that all the flak is internal. The claims of racism and money wasting seems to be coming from left leaning Americans. There really hasn't been any international condemnation, other than Mexico being annoyed at being told they would pay. 

Seems an almost 50/50 split in opinion. 

 

I think the harder question is what you do with people born and raised in America who are illegal. Deporting to a country they've never been to, don't speak the language and have no support is pretty harsh. It would be punishing children for the crimes of the parents. But they are illegal, so how to handle them in a fair way that doesn't set a bad precedent. 

 

I believe people born in America are automatically citizens, which is part of the problem.  If we changed the laws so that each person is a citizen of the country their parents are from, they would be less likely to want to have their babies here.  I know there is a long complicated history behind that law, though.  

 

ETA:  I’m not opposed to immigration as long as it’s legal. I’m appalled though at the stories coming out saying that these people currently on the border were told by someone in their countries that we would happily take them in and provide them with job training, etc.  Somebody down there is selling these poor people a bill of goods.

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3 hours ago, Daffodil said:

believe people born in America are automatically citizens, which is part of the problem

I was reading up on these laws, it appears all of the western world except for America have restrictions on citizenship. Mostly it requires at least one parent to be a citizen, so foreign nationals having their child in your country doesn't count. The US just has it on birth which seems open to abuse. It is one thing Trump has said he wants to change: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

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