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42 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Don't forget for a minute that you are talking to a gun-toting hillbilly.  Or did you not know that I was one?

 

......... ok ....... I'm confused. ..... maybe I just got to used to liberals making fun of us gun owning second amendment loving patriots. Usually when someone on here. It sounded like you were making fun of those that would fight against the govt in another revolution. I'm not going to call it a civil war.

 

I'm at home n Mrs. DB is noticing me typing long messages so I may not reply for awhile unfortunately. 

 

DB

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3 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

......... ok ....... I'm confused. ..... maybe I just got to used to liberals making fun of us gun owning second amendment loving patriots. Usually when someone on here. It sounded like you were making fun of those that would fight against the govt in another revolution. I'm not going to call it a civil war.

 

Maybe you assumed... and assumption is the mother of all fuckups.

 

For example I advocate better gun control, and banning of certain types for reasons I've gone into... however I still have a number of firearms. Don't assume because one person argues for a position that they therefore wants to BAN ALL GUNS.

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1 hour ago, DarkBishop said:

 

......... ok ....... I'm confused. ..... maybe I just got to used to liberals making fun of us gun owning second amendment loving patriots. Usually when someone on here. It sounded like you were making fun of those that would fight against the govt in another revolution. I'm not going to call it a civil war.

 

Are you assuming that liberals are gun hating and that's that? Some people can argue WHY they think certain legislation is a good idea etc, and there's a reason they hold their opinion. I've noticed there's this "liberals are just idiots and hate guns" etc warped thinking out there, whereas some of them hold positions because they think the policy positions are sensible ie they're not just thinking "I must hate these people, they are conservatives and they have guns."

THIS is what I mean by politics in the US has totally turned into a team sport. In Canada a good many people jump sides in elections because they vote on policy, not party name. That's what people with thinking brains do, they don't hold to a party or policy just because.

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1 hour ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

In Canada a good many people jump sides in elections because they vote on policy, not party name. That's what people with thinking brains do, they don't hold to a party or policy just because.

 

That's already started happening here now too, with people jumping the democrats over policy and other issues. It may turn out that droves of former Democrats vote Trump in 2020, judging by the walk away situation and a growing consensus on social media outlets. Because I doubt that in a years time the Democratic Party will have dropped everything off putting to these people and completely reworked itself in such a way that they'd stay on board. It would seem to take more time than that. 

 

In any case, at least people are branching out and questioning the norm and going in new directions. Using their brains as you say. Not just mindlessly voting for same team over and over again without change. 

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4 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

Alright so just to clarify. Someone from outside the US. That means you Wertbag. Is supporting a wall in America?

Absolutely, cost/benefit says it should be positive, anything that can hinder the drug trade is great and defence of your borders is perfectly valid. I'm sure we all wish it wasn't necessary but the scale of illegal immigration, potentially in the tens of millions, certainly shouldn't be ignored. 

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1 hour ago, Burnedout said:

Banning ANY guns is as bad as banning ALL guns.  The constitution guarantees our right to have them.  Any attempt to ban them SHOULD be met with violence

What about the current ban? Should that be met with violence? Explosive weapons, full auto, flame throwers, etc are banned, if that is an attack on your rights then when do you start the killing? 

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24 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

 

That's already started happening here now too, with people jumping the democrats over policy and other issues. It may turn out that droves of former Democrats vote Trump in 2020, judging by the walk away situation and a growing consensus on social media outlets. Because I doubt that in a years time the Democratic Party will have dropped everything off putting to these people and completely reworked itself in such a way that they'd stay on board. It would seem to take more time than that. 

 

In any case, at least people are branching out and questioning the norm and going in new directions. Using their brains as you say. Not just mindlessly voting for same team over and over again without change. 

The people who hold politicians accountable to certain standards of behaviour and integrity (and prioritize them over other issues) will not be voting for Trump, democrat and republican alike. It could also go the other way, with people voting democrat instead of republican. Although we have an issue as well here in Canada with what interests politicians ultimately work for, whether they work for self interest (what is considered conflict of interest in office may differ here, at least I think so after seeing a certain video of AOC's discussion of finance laws), I think the problem may not be as bad yet as that in the US, but I could also be mistaken.

I am sincerely glad I do not have to make a choice in such a broken system, I would likely abstain from voting in the US (and perhaps now I have my answer as to why voter turnout is low in the US in comparison to some other countries).

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We’re not voting because we never have any good candidates anymore.  We all know what’s really happening behind every successful candidate (loads of promises to the powers that be), and we’ve lost hope that anything can be done.  Trump was elected less because people liked him and more because he represented a move away from the status quo.  Now on the left, it’s people like AOC that are moving away from the DNC’s status quo.  Any traditional Democrat that tries to run has a snowball’s chance in hell of winning the nomination.  Of course their ideas are so outrageously radical (no air travel at all!?) that they can’t win the rest of the nation and trump will win again.

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4 hours ago, Burnedout said:

 

Banning ANY guns is as bad as banning ALL guns.  The constitution guarantees our right to have them.  Any attempt to ban them SHOULD be met with violence.  Just my opinion. 

 

I think you should be outraged that you don't get access to full scale military shit.

 

Bazookas, M60's, your own tank... an AH64D Apache... heck in the future I'd demand an Atlas AS7-D... these are the bad boys of future military. That's what I'd want. Wipe a city clean with these. No ones gonna mess with an AC20 bawhaha

 

atlas-mwo-trailer.jpg 

 

Lets tear shit apart!

 

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9 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

......... ok ....... I'm confused. ..... maybe I just got to used to liberals making fun of us gun owning second amendment loving patriots. Usually when someone on here. It sounded like you were making fun of those that would fight against the govt in another revolution. I'm not going to call it a civil war.

 

I'm at home n Mrs. DB is noticing me typing long messages so I may not reply for awhile unfortunately. 

 

DB

Nah.  I was just making fun of Burnedout.  I'm liberal on some issues, conservative on others.  But nobody's taking my guns away.

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7 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

Are you assuming that liberals are gun hating and that's that? Some people can argue WHY they think certain legislation is a good idea etc, and there's a reason they hold their opinion. I've noticed there's this "liberals are just idiots and hate guns" etc warped thinking out there, whereas some of them hold positions because they think the policy positions are sensible ie they're not just thinking "I must hate these people, they are conservatives and they have guns."

THIS is what I mean by politics in the US has totally turned into a team sport. In Canada a good many people jump sides in elections because they vote on policy, not party name. That's what people with thinking brains do, they don't hold to a party or policy just because.

This.  Because I'm neither liberal nor conservative, neither right nor left.  One thing we seriously need to do in America is outgrow this suck-ass two party system.

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6 hours ago, Wertbag said:

Absolutely, cost/benefit says it should be positive, anything that can hinder the drug trade is great and defence of your borders is perfectly valid. I'm sure we all wish it wasn't necessary but the scale of illegal immigration, potentially in the tens of millions, certainly shouldn't be ignored. 

 

Oh wow I'm going to have to reconvert! Miracles DO happen.  Praise the sweet baby Jesus and the lort for all that they do. 

 

Lmao nah just kidding. Not reconverting! But that's awesome, it isn't usual for conservative issues to garner support from outside the US. Not that it should affect the out come but it is a nice change.

 

I gotta ask this. How do you feel about Trump in general? The media seems to only play on the negatives here in the US. I didnt vote for him or hillary but I can honestly say that from my own perspective it seems that our economy has strengthened, Jobs have come up to the point that once again, for a skilled workers like myself, there are companies competing for us again. It seems he has done a good job at putting America first and in my eyes we need that from a president. Like I told truthseeker. If America doesn't put America first who will?

 

My biggest problems with Trump is that I don't see him focussing at all on the national debt. Someone needs to step up and challenge Congress to tackle that issue before it brings us down. I also wish he would keep his ass off twitter and stop giving the media fuel to throw on the fire. 

 

DB

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6 hours ago, Wertbag said:

What about the current ban? Should that be met with violence? Explosive weapons, full auto, flame throwers, etc are banned, if that is an attack on your rights then when do you start the killing? 

 

I hate that this subject has come up again bc it always ends the same but since this is BOs thread for all things BO I guess it's ok. 

 

It should have been met with outrage when they decided to ban them. The 2nd amendment literally protects our right to access of weapons for warfare so they can be readily available in case we need to protect all of our other rights from anyone who might invade the us or from our own govt if necessary. America should have stood up against any gun bans. When Edward Snowden blew the whistle on the HSA there should have been such a wave of outrage spread across the US that Obama and would have had to retire. That is a big invasion of our right to privacy. I don't think freedom of press is a thing anymore either and freedom of speech has definitely taken some hits. Even freedom of religion has taken some hits. Hell, I'm sure if I really looked at all our rights now and then for comparison they have probably all been compromised.

 

You can see how it is all coming to a head now. You saw the riots and protests that ended in violence when Trump was elected. I think it will be worse when/if he is reelected. And for the most part it isnt the conservatives resorting to violence. And they really need to rethink their stance on impeaching him. I don't think that is a good idea in the current climate.

 

You asked when does the killing(war) start? Just as in the civil war that wont happen until a line is drawn and leaders who are already in power step up to lead the cause. That's what makes it a big IF. Americans should have already taken back the reigns a long time ago. There is a lot of talk but when it comes down to it we always give in. And that is the more likely outcome.  At some point in the near future we will probably lose our second amendment rights as defined by the bill of rights. 

 

@TruthSeeker0 @LogicalFallacy

While I am strictly against bans on guns. Because of the issue stated above with wert. I would support expanding background checks to gun shows. I think everyone should be checked to insure they have the right to obtain a gun before they are allowed to have one. If that would appease the right I could support that but they always want to throw in certain semi automatic rifle bans and magazine capacity bans. As you also mentioned. 

 

DB

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1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

This.  Because I'm neither liberal nor conservative, neither right nor left.  One thing we seriously need to do in America is outgrow this suck-ass two party system.

100% agreed is all I can say to this!

 

DB

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6 hours ago, Daffodil said:

We’re not voting because we never have any good candidates anymore.  We all know what’s really happening behind every successful candidate (loads of promises to the powers that be), and we’ve lost hope that anything can be done.  Trump was elected less because people liked him and more because he represented a move away from the status quo.  Now on the left, it’s people like AOC that are moving away from the DNC’s status quo.  Any traditional Democrat that tries to run has a snowball’s chance in hell of winning the nomination.  Of course their ideas are so outrageously radical (no air travel at all!?) that they can’t win the rest of the nation and trump will win again.

 

I understand your plight Daffodil. I am honestly fed up with BOTH political parties. I primarily vote 3rd party and  honestly wish that citizens like yourself would vote and make a hefty swing toward a third party. Not necessarily that they would have a chance even though I would hope for that outcome. But that it would send a huge message to the dems and reps that we are tired of their shit and we will vote for someone else entirely if they don't change their ways. 

 

DB

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8 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I am sincerely glad I do not have to make a choice in such a broken system, I would likely abstain from voting in the US (and perhaps now I have my answer as to why voter turnout is low in the US in comparison to some other countries).

 

I've done that a lot. Completely turned my back on the system. The people who don't want to see either of the two party system in office are basically SOL. And that's just that. 

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8 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

I think you should be outraged that you don't get access to full scale military shit.

 

Bazookas, M60's, your own tank... an AH64D Apache... heck in the future I'd demand an Atlas AS7-D... these are the bad boys of future military. That's what I'd want. Wipe a city clean with these. No ones gonna mess with an AC20 bawhaha

 

atlas-mwo-trailer.jpg 

 

Lets tear shit apart!

 

 

Obama's coming for your Mech!

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4 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

I understand your plight Daffodil. I am honestly fed up with BOTH political parties. I primarily vote 3rd party and  honestly wish that citizens like yourself would vote and make a hefty swing toward a third party. Not necessarily that they would have a chance even though I would hope for that outcome. But that it would send a huge message to the dems and reps that we are tired of their shit and we will vote for someone else entirely if they don't change their ways. 

 

DB

We have a new democrat party here. Whenever the NDP becomes the official opposition or governing party you can bet your socks off people are extremely fed up with the other two parties. Sometimes it's not so much party policy that wins vote but a showing of extreme voter discontent.

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6 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

I gotta ask this. How do you feel about Trump in general?

Hmm, thats a very mixed bag... On one hand his twitter craziness, his incorrect statements, his sexual harassment, and his reality tv show really give a bad impression. While some of his policies have been appluaded and having that feel of a non-politician getting some real power plus putting the spotlight on the whole system and important issues were all good things. 

Failing to get the popular vote and yet gaining power is pretty strange, but even that educated a lot of people as to how the complex system works. 

I think we are in a nice global economic growth phase at the moment, so probably no matter who was president they would have good results. But it certainly hasn't been the apocalypse that the left claimed it would be. Early on there were claims of war with Korea, nuclear war, economic collapse and the next great depression. I think those prophecies that didn't come even close really strengthened Trumps position. 

 

Hes a long way from the best but a long way from a complete disaster. I don't see anyone to challenge him if he stands for re-election. Political success is due in large part to your fame and that is one thing he has over everyone else (unless someone like Oprah ran). 

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6 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

I understand your plight Daffodil. I am honestly fed up with BOTH political parties. I primarily vote 3rd party and  honestly wish that citizens like yourself would vote and make a hefty swing toward a third party. Not necessarily that they would have a chance even though I would hope for that outcome. But that it would send a huge message to the dems and reps that we are tired of their shit and we will vote for someone else entirely if they don't change their ways. 

 

DB

 

I'm fully independent politically, but during the last election, even the third party candidates were crap.  However, I agree with you and believe that one of two possible futures lay ahead.  Either more and more people will quit the two-party system and create a viable third party, or flat out rebellion will occur with all the accompanying violence.  Hope it's the former and not the latter, but we may not be able to last as a functioning nation long enough for a third party to become viable.

 

I just watched a video by The Houndog about how we are all being distracted and redirected to fighting with each other rather than fighting against the real enemy - the wealthy corporatists.  Keep us focused on racism, sexism, trans issues, etc. and they can keep their status quo of increasing their wealth while the rest of us stagnate and deteriorate.  I know it sounds like conspiracy theory, but I'm becoming more and more convinced that this is what the real problem in the world today is.

 

 

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6 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

hate that this subject has come up again bc it always ends the same but since this is BOs thread for all things BO I guess it's ok. 

I've been around this subject with BO and he has the blood and fire rhetoric on the subject that borders on psychopathic. I should hunt down some quotes, the cries for murder get quite off the rails at some points. Its nice to talk to someone who holds the same view but keeps a level, reasonable head about the subject. 

 

For clarity I support guns for self defence and hunting but think guns should be selected for the purpose at hand.  I understand the need for handguns in some areas, and rifles for pest animal controls. I haven't seen a good reason for weapons of war to be readily available, and with terrorism and school shootings a problem you certainly don't want the crazies getting more firepower. 

 

I have never understood the idea of how an anti-government militia would work. First your population haven't signed up for warfare, most gun owners would be thinking of self defence, so it would be interesting to know how many would conscript to such a group. Many would only be armed with handguns as the most common weapon. 

Second there is no one to organise, no one who makes the call as to when it should happen, no infrastructure, no pre-set communications, no supplies stockpiled, no one giving unit tactics and training, hell even just how many gun owners practice with their weapons on a regular basis.. In modern warfare untrained civilians would be massacred. 

The answer seems to be that you need the military to handle the actual revolution and that means the militia isn't the group that makes the change. If the military wants change then no one could stop them, but if only half do and the population support is split then it is a lose/lose with no good outcome. In reverse if the military doesn't want change then the population do not have the means to defeat them. 

 

One way I could see it work was if you actually had a well regulated militia (I'm sure I saw that suggested somewhere...) . If someone wants their gun licence upgraded to military level hardware they have to sign up. They agree up front to defence in wartime and to give up a reasonable amount of time to train. It would have to be a part-time national guard group or some such. Basically if you are serious about war being the deciding factor in your gun ownership then do it right to prove it. Seems to work well in countries with compulsory military service. 

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And while I'm at it, immigration is how this planet got populated by our species.  It was, is, and always will be present as overpopulation combined with climate change will continue to lead people to move in order to better their circumstances, and the temperate areas of this planet, where most first world nations reside, will continue to be the most desirable.   I see the issues that illegal immigration bring to ANY country that experiences it, but it is here to stay and we need to figure out how to manage it.  America in 100 years is not going to look like America right now.  Those of you with 1950's dreams of how it "used" to be in the "good old days" need to open your eyes and learn to live in a different world.  

 

ETA:  I am actually actively learning Spanish, FWIW.

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It will be a Brownmerica. That is the general fear, I think.

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On 2/13/2019 at 8:15 AM, Daffodil said:

And while I'm at it, immigration is how this planet got populated by our species.  It was, is, and always will be present as overpopulation combined with climate change will continue to lead people to move in order to better their circumstances, and the temperate areas of this planet, where most first world nations reside, will continue to be the most desirable.   I see the issues that illegal immigration bring to ANY country that experiences it, but it is here to stay and we need to figure out how to manage it.  America in 100 years is not going to look like America right now.  Those of you with 1950's dreams of how it "used" to be in the "good old days" need to open your eyes and learn to live in a different world.  

 

ETA:  I am actually actively learning Spanish, FWIW.

QFT

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