midniterider

Jesus saved the bibles...but let the church burn down

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Poor homeless Bibles. :(  Starting over from In The Beginning is hard.

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This one doesn't pass the smell test. The article quotes a Facebook post but does not contain any original reporting by the reporter. There is an old saying in journalism: If your mother says she loves you, check it out. I don't see where the reporter verified these claims.

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     Thank god!  Bibles and crosses are rare as fuck.

 

          mwc

 

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Reminds me of this image:

 

Image result for the cross at the world trade center

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The recent tornado in Alabama spawned a bunch of testimonies of God's faithfulness, and billboards proclaiming that "GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL" because reality was slapping them hard in the face showing them exactly the opposite. This feature of human minds to cling to an idea despite clear evidence is extremely sad.

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Maybe, just maybe, those church-goers need to pay attention to the message they are being given. If in fact any bibles were saved, but the building was destroyed, then they just might consider that Jesus never once said build awesome buildings and worship me in them. Church buildings and all that other stuff are a construct of men, not a god. The only case you can argue is that believers are to gather and socialize together ( "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. ") but not once is it said to build worship buildings.

 

Seriously, the Jewish god destroyed, or allowed to be destroyed his chosen people's building, not once but twice! And that second temple was built by Solomon, one of his most favorite Jews, and it still got leveled to the foundation by those pesky Romans.

 

The problem I am seeing here in this forum is a lot of ignorance of what the Christian doctrine actually is. Most of the comments here are from former church-goers showing their beliefs and understandings are based on organized Christianity's interpretations given out in apostate colleges that call them preachers once they graduate, and then those same false teachers get jobs (technically they should be working for free with the congregations providing their BASIC support) in those buildings within their chosen denomination and continue to preach the false doctrines, and the ignorant in the pews just take as if it were true and correct without ever really challenging their "teachers". Many claim they cannot understand the KJV bible, saying that it's too hard to read, all the while proclaiming they have the spirit of a god inside them. Think about that one a bit.

 

Christians have been lied to and taught incorrect doctrines in the first place by really evil people with an agenda that really aren't even believers that those congregations trust (even though their own book says not to trust men) and look up to for guidance. And one of the biggest lies in Christianity is church buildings, bibles schools, etc. It's all a lie and simply has zero place in doctrine. One has to REALLY stretch what the scriptures say in order to even come close to justifying a church building.

 

So the moral of this story is that it doesn't matter, it's a moot point. Their god destroyed what he never asked for in the first place!

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The bibles were probably saved due to fire retardant paper and this is only seen as a miracle by logic retardant believers.

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20 hours ago, Lefty said:

 

So the moral of this story is that it doesn't matter,

 

This sentence I agree with. The rest of your rant? Meh... There are several presuppositions implied in your rant above that would need to be addressed (existence of any god,  existence of the Jewish god,  that the the Bible can be trusted to be accurate about reality or at all, etc.) before wasting time arguing your points. 

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@Lefty I didn't realize you were some variety of Christian. Is that right?

 

20 hours ago, Lefty said:

The problem I am seeing here in this forum is a lot of ignorance of what the Christian doctrine actually is.

 

One problem I see is that there isn't much agreement about "what Christian doctrine actually is" even among self-identifying Christians, and there never really has been. So I'm not sure you can fault the unbelievers if they also don't know what it is. It's probably more of a Lion's Den topic, but for example you could go track down Christforums and Jojo over there and maybe you all can sort it out :)

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22 hours ago, Lefty said:

Maybe, just maybe, those church-goers need to pay attention to the message they are being given. If in fact any bibles were saved, but the building was destroyed, then they just might consider that Jesus never once said build awesome buildings and worship me in them. Church buildings and all that other stuff are a construct of men, not a god. The only case you can argue is that believers are to gather and socialize together ( "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. ") but not once is it said to build worship buildings.

 

Seriously, the Jewish god destroyed, or allowed to be destroyed his chosen people's building, not once but twice! And that second temple was built by Solomon, one of his most favorite Jews, and it still got leveled to the foundation by those pesky Romans.

 

The problem I am seeing here in this forum is a lot of ignorance of what the Christian doctrine actually is. Most of the comments here are from former church-goers showing their beliefs and understandings are based on organized Christianity's interpretations given out in apostate colleges that call them preachers once they graduate, and then those same false teachers get jobs (technically they should be working for free with the congregations providing their BASIC support) in those buildings within their chosen denomination and continue to preach the false doctrines, and the ignorant in the pews just take as if it were true and correct without ever really challenging their "teachers". Many claim they cannot understand the KJV bible, saying that it's too hard to read, all the while proclaiming they have the spirit of a god inside them. Think about that one a bit.

 

Christians have been lied to and taught incorrect doctrines in the first place by really evil people with an agenda that really aren't even believers that those congregations trust (even though their own book says not to trust men) and look up to for guidance. And one of the biggest lies in Christianity is church buildings, bibles schools, etc. It's all a lie and simply has zero place in doctrine. One has to REALLY stretch what the scriptures say in order to even come close to justifying a church building.

 

So the moral of this story is that it doesn't matter, it's a moot point. Their god destroyed what he never asked for in the first place!

     What else did jesus actually say?  I'm curious how you know these things?  Are all the red letter bits in the gospels actual quotes from jesus?  If I assume that the folks who wrote the gospels were actually disciples that followed jesus around (they weren't but I'll assume this for now) and later wrote everything down am I to assume that they really remembered verbatim what he had to say for years (the usual timeline would mean more than a decade if were being extremely conservative but usually two to three decades)?  Are you certain you're trusting the word of jesus or are you trusting the word of some anonymous others who are simply attributing their words to jesus?  In which case they did not mention building any church buildings and the like?

 

          mwc

 

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2 hours ago, webmdave said:

 

This sentence I agree with. The rest of your rant? Meh... There are several presuppositions implied in your rant above that would need to be addressed (existence of any god,  existence of the Jewish god,  that the the Bible can be trusted to be accurate about reality or at all, etc.) before wasting time arguing your points. 

 

It's not an argument, just an observation over time as a believer. I know what I experienced, so I have no need to argue any of those points. No god exists, the bible is not true as a whole, though some info is true like names of cities, etc, and no the bible cannot be trusted, any version.

 

I spent three years (1988-1991) in a kind of walkabout sabbatical sort of thing doing nothing but daily studying the KJV bible, cover to cover, and the vast majority of so-called believers couldn't keep up doctrinally. Heck, I knew what the book says better than every pastor I met. That is a true story. I have no need to exaggerate anything. That is what I experienced. I spent most of my time not preaching to lost souls but challenging the "church" itself. I spent that time on the streets of Hawaii, most of it in Waikiki because of all the people there, made for a great captured audience so to speak and living on the streets was tolerable due to the weather.

 

Talking to unbelievers was easy to do, the church-goers was a trying of patience, to say the least. Most were too arrogant or proud to listen to anybody because their pastor said it had to be correct as far as they were concerned. They could not deal with being schooled in their own book by some homeless person carrying a bible and never went to a church and had no pastor. The guys that I associated with all lived on the streets and studied the book every day, we were trying to live like Jesus says and we were a heck of a lot closer to it then the church folks. That made more than one person really mad and we were called a cult more than once even though we did not stay together as a group. Some stayed around, some would go to the mainland for a time, it was never the same people all the time.

 

True or not, that doesn't matter if you are just looking at whether or not believers are following what is printed. I do not believe any gods exist. Ultimately I couldn't care less how they interpret their book. I did some research a few years back on the KJV bible and found that indeed the very book itself isn't the actual words anyway, and the newer translations just get worse. I can provide a link to the study on a Christian forum if anybody wants it. It's long and boring as hell, but I think it's fairly in depth. I even contacted Cambridge University as well as the curator of the bible museum in Phoenix AZ on the topic. My initial motivation was to determine just what bible I was carrying because it doesn't quite fit more modern KJV bibles. Mine was published by World which went out of business in the early '90s. I eventually determined that my bible is a variation of the Paris text but was never able to prove it outright. Looking back, that research was the beginning of the end of my belief.

 

Regardless of whether or not it's true, it is a fact that most church-goers do not follow or don't even know what is written in that book, and they only go by what alleged experts like pastors tell them, because, you know those folks have college degrees in religious stuff so they must know what it says. After meeting so many different denominations and hearing their tales of worship, I concluded the church system is turning out complete nutcase robots.

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1 hour ago, mwc said:

     What else did jesus actually say?  I'm curious how you know these things?  Are all the red letter bits in the gospels actual quotes from jesus?  If I assume that the folks who wrote the gospels were actually disciples that followed jesus around (they weren't but I'll assume this for now) and later wrote everything down am I to assume that they really remembered verbatim what he had to say for years (the usual timeline would mean more than a decade if were being extremely conservative but usually two to three decades)?  Are you certain you're trusting the word of jesus or are you trusting the word of some anonymous others who are simply attributing their words to jesus?  In which case they did not mention building any church buildings and the like?

 

          mwc

 

 

Not looking for any debate if that is your motivation. Apparently, I was not clear. There is no claim by me of the book being true in the first place, just an observation of what is written and how many do not follow correctly what is presented in the book that exists. I've studied more than one version of the bible, and none of them can be trusted, some are worse than others, and then you get the spin by each denomination which just adds to the mass confusion and lack of knowledge.

 

I never attended any churches nor was I taught by any preachers. I am self-taught. Anybody can be just by simply reading the silly book! I went into the book to learn what is written in it. I mean seriously, it's not a big book, especially if you study the New Testament part to learn what Christians are being taught. It always amazed me how so many people can get it so wrong when there is so little actual info there!

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1 hour ago, Lefty said:

 

Not looking for any debate if that is your motivation. Apparently, I was not clear. There is no claim by me of the book being true in the first place, just an observation of what is written and how many do not follow correctly what is presented in the book that exists. I've studied more than one version of the bible, and none of them can be trusted, some are worse than others, and then you get the spin by each denomination which just adds to the mass confusion and lack of knowledge.

 

I never attended any churches nor was I taught by any preachers. I am self-taught. Anybody can be just by simply reading the silly book! I went into the book to learn what is written in it. I mean seriously, it's not a big book, especially if you study the New Testament part to learn what Christians are being taught. It always amazed me how so many people can get it so wrong when there is so little actual info there!

     I'm just curious is all.  The problem is that usually winds up in some sort of debate. ;)

 

     I'm just reading your posts and you seem to know a lot about what jesus actually said.  The problem is you didn't answer me about how you actually know, from just reading the book, that it is a real jesus or just a jesus sock-puppet.

 

          mwc

 

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1 hour ago, Lefty said:

it is a fact that most church-goers do not follow or don't even know what is written in that book

 

Your observations somewhat parallel my own. Thanks for the explanation.

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Quote

 

I'm just curious is all.  The problem is that usually winds up in some sort of debate.

 

     I'm just reading your posts and you seem to know a lot about what jesus actually said.  The problem is you didn't answer me about how you actually know, from just reading the book, that it is a real jesus or just a jesus sock-puppet.

 

          mwc

 

 

I hear ya. I have enough drama in this life, so I try to avoid if I can. Unfortunately, my mouth tends to override better judgment at times!

 

Not what Jesus actually said, as if he were an actual person. I do not believe that the person described in the bible actually existed, though records do apparently show more than one person in those days claiming to be some kind of messiah. I am in no way claiming such a thing. I don't have a clue outside of written alleged quotes what any person said when I wasn't there to hear it myself, two days ago or 2000 years. What I do know quite well is what is written in the Christian bible, I just don't say every time, "...that is not what is written in the bible". Admittedly, I have my own interpretations of scriptures, and those tend to conflict quite often with organized churchianity.

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