Easter: The Holiday so many Christians get wrong

[Christforums]

5 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Person in a cult asks another person in a cult which cult he belongs to 

 

 

[Christforums]

5 hours ago, Orbit said:

 

How Christian of you.

 

Christians don't joke?

 

Just curious, are you going to examine, critique, judge, and criticize my every move and behavior while here?

[Christforums]

58 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

Perhaps the "Enemy" suggested he log on and be naughty here.

 

I tend to teeter between ornery and naughty.

 

What is hard to convey in forums is vocal tones, body language (facial expressions) etc.

 

I love satire and parody to complicate matters. I can be quite sarcastic but not in a mean way.

[Lefty]

8 hours ago, Jojo said:

I'll do what I can if it means saving a soul and through whatever forum it may be. I do not wish to draw my sword on anyone, I simply want to share my faith and the peace that it's given me throughout my life.

Also, it's not I that will persuade your mind, only the Biblical truth can. Thank you for your reply, Lefty.

 

Okay fair enough. I had forgotten this is the Lion's Den. And you are welcome. I do understand where you are coming from, as I was once deceived as well. But don't worry, your affliction is not life threatening and quite curable.

 

Might I recommend that you read my thread "Search for Truth"...And once you have, feel free to make a counter offer! Maybe post a new separate thread so it doesn't get lost in this thread on Easter. I would advise you to take on the whole armor of your god. 

 

https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/81759-my-search-for-truth/

 

[Casey]

Easter? To me it proves JC was working class. He got hammered on Friday, he was still hammered on Saturday, he rose on Sunday, and called in sick on Monday.

 

Casey

[LogicalFallacy]

4 hours ago, Christforums said:

 

Christians don't joke?

 

Just curious, are you going to examine, critique, judge, and criticize my every move and behavior while here?

 

Yes. Why do you ask?

[Lefty]

4 hours ago, Christforums said:

 

Christians don't joke?

 

Just curious, are you going to examine, critique, judge, and criticize my every move and behavior while here?

 

Christians do in fact make jokes, however, it's rather unChristian like and clearly, believers are encouraged not to resort to such things as it is neither edifying nor expedient.

 

See Ephesians, " ...Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks..."
 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

10 hours ago, Orbit said:

 

How Christian of you.

For those who are new, or haven't been around The Den in a while, there is a history between myself and christfuckems.  He's not really trying to be insulting, he just knows that there is nothing in his theology that can effectively challenge simple logic and reason, so he resorts to ad hominems and such as a means of dealing with his own insecurities.  In his first incarnation here, he started a thread to invite us all to visit his website and "debate".  Some of our members did so, and when the "debate" got beyond christfuckem's ability to compete, he then withdrew the invitation, and then had a complete meltdown (starting around page 7). 

 

[midniterider]

22 hours ago, Jojo said:

I was at Target yesterday and saw the Easter section and I was curious about the occasion and how many people actually celebrate it. 
I googled it and found this website and it stated that 80% of American adults will be celebrating this year. That's huge! It's a religious occasion but it's not even in the Bible.

 

Check it out: https://incmedia.org/celebrating-easter/

 

 

So you're happy with people celebrating a religious occasion that's not in the bible? Sweet. I love that open-mindedness. I personally think people should celebrate whatever occasion they like.

 

http://www.goddessandgreenman.co.uk/ostara/

 

Ostara, Eostre, Easter! Celebrate the equinox with a fertility ritual!

[Jojo]

16 hours ago, disillusioned said:

 

So how do you classify yourself?

 

 

16 hours ago, Christforums said:

 

May I ask which school of thought best aligns with your theology?

 

Trinitarian theology is considered essential soteriology. It is characteristic of cults to distort essential doctrine enough to make salvation unattainable. For example, on one hand an essential is that there's  only one God Isaiah 43:10; 44:6; 44:8; 45:5 and that believing in a false God brings judgment Exodus 20:1-6. On the other hand there are those that reject God the Son John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9 and such rejection results dying in one's own sin John 8:24. Trinitarianism teaches that there is One God in Three Persons. The Three Persons are not distinct enough to have separate wills but individual enough to commune together.

 

All denominations agree to these essentials, for example, the truths conveyed from Scripture in the Nicene Creed are considered essential to the faith. The Nicene Creed establishes Trinitarianism. All denominations are "Christian" because they agree upon these essential truths while rejection of the truths conveyed from Scripture in the Creed are generally a tell tale, red flag, or a litmus test to orthodoxy which places an individual or congregation outside Christianity and into the class of cult or sect. Just to emphasize, a person is not placed outside of Christianity because they disagree with or reject the Nicene Creed but because they reject the essential truths conveyed from Scripture in the Creed.

 

I don't mean to pick you apart but just noted something of interest when reading your responses. I love theology so I'll be eager to listen to you.

 

Look forward to our future engagements,

enjoy.

 

 

 

I'm simply a member of the Church of Christ. We are Christian and don't believe in the Trinity. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Matt. 3:17) and that Christ is a man and not God or a God-Man as Christ stated himself (John 8:40) as well as the Apostles (1 Tim. 2:5; Matt. 1:18). 

 

We're not a denomination, cult or sect and do not follow this Nicene Creed you mentioned. This is a religion that worships the Almighty God strictly based on His teachings recorded in the Bible with no opinions involved.

No problem, didn't take it as being taken apart and I hope this answers your question.

[disillusioned]

15 minutes ago, Jojo said:

 

 

I'm simply a member of the Church of Christ. We are Christian and don't believe in the Trinity. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Matt. 3:17) and that Christ is a man and not God or a God-Man as Christ stated himself (John 8:40) as well as the Apostles (1 Tim. 2:5; Matt. 1:18). 

 

We're not a denomination, cult or sect and do not follow this Nicene Creed you mentioned. This is a religion that worships the Almighty God strictly based on His teachings recorded in the Bible with no opinions involved.

 

So you believe Jesus is the Son of God, but not God. Hmmmm. Does he sit at God's right hand? Will he return, to reign for all eternity? Presumably he's more than merely human. Some kind of demigod? Honestly asking.

[Jojo]

8 hours ago, Lefty said:

 

Okay fair enough. I had forgotten this is the Lion's Den. And you are welcome. I do understand where you are coming from, as I was once deceived as well. But don't worry, your affliction is not life threatening and quite curable.

 

Might I recommend that you read my thread "Search for Truth"...And once you have, feel free to make a counter offer! Maybe post a new separate thread so it doesn't get lost in this thread on Easter. I would advise you to take on the whole armor of your god. 

 

https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/81759-my-search-for-truth/

 

Thank you, I apologize for this brief moment being off topic.

I appreciate the sharing of your thread. I understand your search, learning or dealing with the false preachers you've experienced along the way as well. 
However, if you're interested and still willing to learn and to further study as you have been (for I am unqualified) you are more than welcome to discuss and ask as many questions as you'd like regarding the Scriptures written in the Bible with a Minister in my Church. You can even discuss the first problem you had with the verse Ezekiel 28:15. This can be done through video or however you prefer contact. I truly hope you take up the offer. 

Thank you.

[Christforums]

40 minutes ago, Jojo said:

 

 

I'm simply a member of the Church of Christ. We are Christian and don't believe in the Trinity. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Matt. 3:17) and that Christ is a man and not God or a God-Man as Christ stated himself (John 8:40) as well as the Apostles (1 Tim. 2:5; Matt. 1:18). 

 

We're not a denomination, cult or sect and do not follow this Nicene Creed you mentioned. This is a religion that worships the Almighty God strictly based on His teachings recorded in the Bible with no opinions involved.

No problem, didn't take it as being taken apart and I hope this answers your question.

 

If Jesus is just a man then man is quite capable of obtaining righteousness and fulfilling all requirements of the law. There's little if any need at all for Jesus Christ other than his guidance as a good moral teacher.

 

If this is what you believe then that's Pelagian (rejects original sin or a sin nature), and the way you obtain salvation is through works righteousness, performance based salvation or perfectionism.

[Jojo]

1 hour ago, midniterider said:

 

So you're happy with people celebrating a religious occasion that's not in the bible? Sweet. I love that open-mindedness. I personally think people should celebrate whatever occasion they like.

 

http://www.goddessandgreenman.co.uk/ostara/

 

Ostara, Eostre, Easter! Celebrate the equinox with a fertility ritual!

I didn't state being happy with people celebrating this religious occasion but people to simply to understand and learn what you're truly doing by celebrating or supporting this specific holiday that many participate in.
I agree that people in this world can and will celebrate whatever occasion they'd like but why not educate ourselves in the things we do especially when it comes to religion or spirituality.

[Christforums]

6 hours ago, Lefty said:

 

Christians do in fact make jokes, however, it's rather unChristian like and clearly, believers are encouraged not to resort to such things as it is neither edifying nor expedient.

 

See Ephesians, " ...Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks..."
 

 

Ephesians 5:4  Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.

 

The form of "joking or jesting" that Paul is dissuading is out of character for a godly man and carries conceit. Joking is not unChrisitan. Scripture contains satire, sometimes strongly emphasizing folly, however, if there's a weaker brother that stumbles because of my "jesting" I'd be happy to refrain from doing so in order to not cause them to stumble more.

 

 

 

 

[Jojo]

7 minutes ago, disillusioned said:

 

So you believe Jesus is the Son of God, but not God. Hmmmm. Does he sit at God's right hand? Will he return, to reign for all eternity? Presumably he's more than merely human. Some kind of demigod? Honestly asking.

Yes, I believe Jesus is the Son of God and that Jesus Christ is not God.
He is not a demigod. There are plenty of instances where Jesus Christ introduced Himself as the Son OF God and never called Himself a "Demigod" or "God THE Son" 
He has attributes of a human being. He was hungry (Matt. 4:2) thirsty, (John 19:28) even tired (John 4:6) and died (Matt 27:50; I Cor. 15:3) but Christ is different or distinct from all men.

Christ is the only man that did not sin (I Pet. 2:21-22; Heb. 4:15) He is who He is because God appointed Jesus as the only Savior (Acts 13:23) Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man (I Tim. 2:5) and the only way to God (John 14:6).

I hope this was clear and answers your question as well. And as I offered previously to Lefty for I'm unqualified, you can speak with a Minister in my Church to talk about the Scriptures written in the Bible and ask whatever you want and if you want to know more about who Jesus is and what He is. Message me if you're interested, I hope you take up the offer as well.

Thank you.
 

[Christforums]

10 minutes ago, Jojo said:

Yes, I believe Jesus is the Son of God and that Jesus Christ is not God.
He is not a demigod. There are plenty of instances where Jesus Christ introduced Himself as the Son OF God and never called Himself a "Demigod" or "God THE Son" 
He has attributes of a human being. He was hungry (Matt. 4:2) thirsty, (John 19:28) even tired (John 4:6) and died (Matt 27:50; I Cor. 15:3) but Christ is different or distinct from all men.

Christ is the only man that did not sin (I Pet. 2:21-22; Heb. 4:15) He is who He is because God appointed Jesus as the only Savior (Acts 13:23) Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man (I Tim. 2:5) and the only way to God (John 14:6).

I hope this was clear and answers your question as well. And as I offered previously to Lefty for I'm unqualified, you can speak with a Minister in my Church to talk about the Scriptures written in the Bible and ask whatever you want and if you want to know more about who Jesus is and what He is. Message me if you're interested, I hope you take up the offer as well.

Thank you.
 

 

As a suggestion, you may want to study the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union.

 

Not all Church of Christ reject the Trinity. Again, rejecting the Trinity places one outside the Christian faith. Whether you think you're cultist or not is not relative to your acknowledgment of an undesirable label but rather based on your rejection of the essentials to the faith.

 

One of the staff on my board is Church of Christ and is Trinitarian. This is why I suggested that rejection of the Nicene Creed places an "individual" or congregation within a church outside Christianity. Most often congregations that do not profess Creeds and Confessions are not unified as to what the whole congregation believes and it's difficult to find unity in such bodies.

 

All Denominations profess the truths which are considered essential to the faith from Scripture in the Nicene Creed. This (belief and profession) is what unifies Christians.

[disillusioned]

15 minutes ago, Jojo said:

Yes, I believe Jesus is the Son of God and that Jesus Christ is not God.
He is not a demigod. There are plenty of instances where Jesus Christ introduced Himself as the Son OF God and never called Himself a "Demigod" or "God THE Son" 
He has attributes of a human being. He was hungry (Matt. 4:2) thirsty, (John 19:28) even tired (John 4:6) and died (Matt 27:50; I Cor. 15:3) but Christ is different or distinct from all men.

Christ is the only man that did not sin (I Pet. 2:21-22; Heb. 4:15) He is who He is because God appointed Jesus as the only Savior (Acts 13:23) Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man (I Tim. 2:5) and the only way to God (John 14:6).

I hope this was clear and answers your question as well. And as I offered previously to Lefty for I'm unqualified, you can speak with a Minister in my Church to talk about the Scriptures written in the Bible and ask whatever you want and if you want to know more about who Jesus is and what He is. Message me if you're interested, I hope you take up the offer as well.

Thank you.
 

 

No need for me to talk to your pastor or an expert, I'm just trying to get a handle on where you're coming from. 

 

I see that Jesus has attributes of a human being. He is also supposed o have attributes which are not normal for humans. The ability to rise from the dead, for example.

 

It seems untenable to me to claim that the biblical account is correct, and that Jesus was merely human. But it's not my belief, so I suppose it's not my problem.

[Lefty]

LOL, thank you for the offer, but I have found over the years that I end up teaching the pastors what's in their own book, so no thank you. I've seen that trap way too many times and it is a complete waste of time for all involved. I posted the Ezekiel verse as a statement of fact, not a desire to have it answered for me. I'm quite satisfied with the answer to that contradiction that I found.

 

When I was a believer, I can assure you that I had zero desire to "search the scriptures" with anybody of your denomination's beliefs. I always found the claim that Jesus is not god as quite funny and entertaining, but absolutely exhausting to have such a debate with church-goers.

 

I learned what the truth is years ago now, there is no saving me from my atheist madness! Sorry to disappoint you. So please, don't bother asking again.

[Jojo]

29 minutes ago, Christforums said:

 

If Jesus is just a man then man is quite capable of obtaining righteousness and fulfilling all requirements of the law. There's little if any need at all for Jesus Christ other than his guidance as a good moral teacher.

 

If this is what you believe then that's Pelagian (rejects original sin or a sin nature), and the way you obtain salvation is through works righteousness, performance based salvation or perfectionism.

But there is a need for Jesus Christ. As I've stated in a previous post: 
'Christ is different or distinct from all men.

Christ is the only man that did not sin (I Pet. 2:21-22; Heb. 4:15) He is who He is because God appointed Jesus as the only Savior (Acts 13:23) Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man (I Tim. 2:5) and the only way to
God (John 14:6).'

This is not Pelagian because we do not simply reject original sin. Man has definitely sinned and we became God's enemy. However, Jesus Christ died for all of our sins. Works of righteousness alone won't get us anywhere. Christ is our Savior, the Mediator and the only way back to God and to get salvation is by being inside the one true church, The Church of Christ.

 

[midniterider]

42 minutes ago, Jojo said:

I didn't state being happy with people celebrating this religious occasion but people to simply to understand and learn what you're truly doing by celebrating or supporting this specific holiday that many participate in.
I agree that people in this world can and will celebrate whatever occasion they'd like but why not educate ourselves in the things we do especially when it comes to religion or spirituality.

 

So what am I truly doing by celebrating a holiday that's not in the bible? My opinion is that it's much ado about nothing.

I've gotten quite an education about religion here on this website. My feeling is that it's a lot of bunk.

[Christforums]

23 minutes ago, Jojo said:

But there is a need for Jesus Christ. As I've stated in a previous post: 
'Christ is different or distinct from all men.

Christ is the only man that did not sin (I Pet. 2:21-22; Heb. 4:15) He is who He is because God appointed Jesus as the only Savior (Acts 13:23) Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man (I Tim. 2:5) and the only way to
God (John 14:6).'

This is not Pelagian because we do not simply reject original sin. Man has definitely sinned and we became God's enemy. However, Jesus Christ died for all of our sins. Works of righteousness alone won't get us anywhere. Christ is our Savior, the Mediator and the only way back to God and to get salvation is by being inside the one true church, The Church of Christ.

 

 

If Jesus is man and God then Jesus has two natures. This is why I recommended studying the Hypostatic Union. Jesus indeed has a divine nature and a human nature but no sin nature. For 400 years prior to Chalcedon, there were plenty of approaches offered:

1. Docetism - taught that Christ only appeared to be man
2. Ebionism - taught that Christ was a holy man who kept the law
3. Sabellianism - taught that Christ was the Father incarnate, but only temporarily
4. Paul of Samosata - taught that Christ was a mere man influenced by God
5. Arianism - taught that Christ was more than man but less than God
6. Apollinarianism - taught that Christ was a compromise mixture of divinity and humanity
7. Nestorianism - taught that Christ was two persons, one divine and the other human
8. Eutychianism - taught that Christ's humanity was simply absorbed into His deity

Read over the Definition of Chalcedon once or twice:

 

Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us. (Definition of Chalcedon, 451 A.D.)

 

Note the lack of logical contradiction. Now often people will suggest Jesus is 100% man and 100% God (which would be a logical contradiction) but note the wording of the Chalcedonian creed which took centuries to formulate.

 

Here is the Reformed Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter 8. Pay special attention to the second and third paragraph which was indented. Scriptural verses from which the WCF exegetes are below referenced.

 

I. It pleased God, in his eternal purpose, to choose and ordain the Lord Jesus, his only begotten Son, to be the Mediator between God and man,[1] the Prophet,[2] Priest,[3] and King,[4] the Head and Savior of his Church,[5] the Heir of all things,[6] and Judge of the world:[7] unto whom he did from all eternity give a people, to be his seed,[8] and to be by Him in time redeemed, called, justified, sanctified, and glorified.[9]

II. The Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, being very and eternal God, of one substance and equal with the Father, did, when the fullness of time was come, take upon Him man's nature,[10] with all the essential properties, and common infirmities thereof, yet without sin;[11] being conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost, in the womb of the virgin Mary, of her substance.[12] So that two whole, perfect, and distinct natures, the Godhead and the manhood, were inseparably joined together in one person, without conversion, composition, or confusion.[13] Which person is very God, and very man, yet one Christ, the only Mediator between God and man.[14]

III. The Lord Jesus, in his human nature thus united to the divine, was sanctified, and anointed with the Holy Spirit, above measure,[15] having in Him all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge;[16] in whom it pleased the Father that all fullness should dwell;[17] to the end that, being holy, harmless, undefiled, and full of grace and truth,[18] he might be thoroughly furnished to execute the office of a Mediator and Surety.[19] Which office he took not unto Himself, but was thereunto called by his Father,[20] who put all power and judgment into his hand, and gave Him commandment to execute the same.[21]

IV. This office the Lord Jesus did most willingly undertake;[22] which that he might discharge, he was made under the law,[23] and did perfectly fulfil it;[24] endured most grievous torments immediately in his soul,[25] and most painful sufferings in his body;[26] was crucified, and died,[27] was buried, and remained under the power of death, yet saw no corruption.[28] On the third day he arose from the dead,[29] with the same body in which he suffered,[30] with which also he ascended into heaven, and there sits at the right hand of his Father,[31] making intercession,[32] and shall return, to judge men and angels, at the end of the world.[33]

V. The Lord Jesus, by his perfect obedience, and sacrifice of Himself, which he through the eternal Spirit, once offered up unto God, has fully satisfied the justice of his Father;[34] and purchased, not only reconciliation, but an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of heaven, for those whom the Father has given unto Him.[35]

VI. Although the work of redemption was not actually wrought by Christ till after his incarnation, yet the virtue, efficacy, and benefits thereof were communicated unto the elect, in all ages successively from the beginning of the world, in and by those promises, types, and sacrifices, wherein he was revealed, and signified to be the seed of the woman which should bruise the serpent's head; and the Lamb slain from the beginning of the world; being yesterday and today the same, and forever.[36]

VII. Christ, in the work of mediation, acts according to both natures, by each nature doing that which is proper to itself;[37] yet, by reason of the unity of the person, that which is proper to one nature is sometimes in Scripture attributed to the person denominated by the other nature.[38]

VIII. To all those for whom Christ has purchased redemption, he does certainly and effectually apply and communicate the same;[39] making intercession for them,[40] and revealing unto them, in and by the word, the mysteries of salvation;[41] effectually persuading them by his Spirit to believe and obey, and governing their hearts by his word and Spirit;[42] overcoming all their enemies by his almighty power and wisdom, in such manner, and ways, as are most consonant to his wonderful and unsearchable dispensation.[43]

 

 

[1] ISA 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 1PE 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you. JOH 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 1TI 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

[2] ACT 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

[3] HEB 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

[4] PSA 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. LUK 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

[5] EPH 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

[6] HEB 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.

[7] ACT 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

[8] JOH 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. PSA 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation. ISA 53:10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

[9] 1TI 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. ISA 55:4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. 5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the Lord thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee. 1CO 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption.

[10] JOH 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 1JO 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. PHI 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God. GAL 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.

[11] HEB 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

[12] LUK 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. GAL 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.

[13] LUK 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. COL 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. ROM 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. 1PE 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit. 1TI 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

[14] ROM 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh. ROM 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 1TI 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

[15] PSA 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. JOH 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

[16] COL 2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

[17] COL 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell.

[18] HEB 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens. JOH 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[19] ACT 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. HEB 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. HEB 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

[20] HEB 5:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

[21] JOH 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son. 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. MAT 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. ACT 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

[22] PSA 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, 8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart. HEB 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come(in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. JOH 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. PHI 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

[23] GAL 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.

[24] MAT 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

[25] MAT 26:37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. 38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. LUK 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. MAT 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

[26] SEE MAT 26-27

[27] PHI 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

[28] ACT 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. ROM 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

[29] 1CO 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve.

[30] JOH 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

[31] MAR 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

[32] ROM 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. HEB 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us. 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

[33] ROM 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. ACT 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. MAT 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. JUD 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 2PE 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.

[34] ROM 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. HEB 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. EPH 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. ROM 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

[35] DAN 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. COL 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. EPH 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will. 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. JOH 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. HEB 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

[36] GAL 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. GEN 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. REV 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. HEB 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

[37] HEB 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 1PE 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.

[38] ACT 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. JOH 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 1JO 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

[39] JOH 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

[40] 1JO 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. ROM 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

[41] JOH 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. EPH 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself. JOH 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

[42] JOH 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever. HEB 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 2CO 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak. ROM 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. JOH 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

[43] PSA 110:1 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 1CO 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. MAL 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts. COL 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

 

 

[Lefty]

I've found what frustrates me more than a religion celebrating something that isn't even in their own religion, is that the world has taken advantage of said practices and turned it into a holiday money-making machine.

 

According to their own book, you cannot buy or earn your way into heaven. Ritual practices are unprofitable and vain, and they are definitely not Christian. There is a really good reason why some don't believe that the book of Revelation should be in the bible. Those seven churches get scolded, and they are also a metaphor for the existing church practices of the times. Simple observations show that those seven still have not learned their own lesson after 2000 freakin' years!

[Christforums]

15 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

So what am I truly doing by celebrating a holiday that's not in the bible? My opinion is that it's much ado about nothing.

I've gotten quite an education about religion here on this website. My feeling is that it's a lot of bunk.

 

Colossians 2:16 "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath."

 

No matter what the "religious" are going to find fault with another celebrating a holiday etc. Every year around the holidays there are criticisms and judgment by both unbelievers and believers alike. It's like a broken record but yet we still listen.

 

Scripture defines religion as simply this:

 

James 1:27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

 

Amazing how religion today brings with it all the connotations of "legalism".

[Lefty]

I'll likely regret asking, but I'm curious as to how you define "unstained from the world" (ESV) or "unspotted from the world" (KJV)

 

In line with that exhortation, "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,..."