Easter: The Holiday so many Christians get wrong

[midniterider]

2 hours ago, Lefty said:

 

"...ignorant trailer trash..."?

 

Now now, that is a rather offensive comment. You as a loving Christian is supposed to love those who speak all manner of evil against you, right? What happened to turn the other cheek?

 

For the record, I, in fact, live in a mobile home in the southwestern desert, my family is from the heart of the southeast and more than one also live in a mobile home, and I know for a fact more than one have a confederate flag in their home and drive a pickup.

 

While some do have moments of ignorance, all that I know of past my grandparents not only went to high school but graduated and a few went on to college, including myself having served in the US Navy and got my degree with a BA in Multimedia/Digital Animation. My first cousin is actually a politician having been a state representative and is currently Register of Deeds in a major southern city.

 

"...You'll have to work past my prejudices..."? Nope, I sure don't, no one should. How about a much more reasonable option of you dropping your prejudiced stereotypes.

 

 

Why do rednecks have to be white?

[LogicalFallacy]

1 hour ago, midniterider said:

So you're telling me that either Christforums or Jojo is an agent of Satan .... yes , yes, but which one?

 

No, I'm telling you that BOTH could be an agent of Lucifer. Wolves in sheep's clothing let loose among our flock here to try and convince those who were true believers back into a false Christianity. It's a great play from ol Luci when you think about it.

 

(Unless it's all in gods plan... in which case it's not Luci's plan, it's gods, which means god could be blinding our eyes by using false teachers. Paul also warned about this too!)

 

@Jojo and @Christforums While this might look insincere or a halfwit joking around, consider the point being made here by both Midnite and I. Given all what we can take from the bible how do we tell the difference between who is right or wrong, or indeed if you are both deceived, or if God has given us a strong delusion? This is my problem with the various Christians who try and convince me they are right - all they ever have are their words and interpretations. None have yet come up with a solid reliable method that lets a non believer separate the sheep from the goats and the wolves. From where we stand they all look the same.

 

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And thank you for remembering 2 Peter 2:1 in our time of need here.

 

Anything to help the saints here.

[mwc]

1 hour ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

No, I'm telling you that BOTH could be an agent of Lucifer. Wolves in sheep's clothing let loose among our flock here to try and convince those who were true believers back into a false Christianity. It's a great play from ol Luci when you think about it.

 

     And I'm now saying they're BOTH right.

 

     Imagine if two people are reporting the same traffic accident.  It would be suspicious if their reports were perfectly aligned.  But we know the whole thing is true if there's a bunch of bullshit in there that is diametrically opposed and just can't be resolved.

 

     That, or maybe their god hates them and there are no winners in his little game no matter what they think.  I do like how Paul gets quoted like he's reasonable.  You know, the whole "we've got to have a bunch of shits around so we can see who the real xians are."  The True Scotsman fallacy runs deep.

 

          mwc

 

[LogicalFallacy]

10 minutes ago, mwc said:

     And I'm now saying they're BOTH right.

 

     Imagine if two people are reporting the same traffic accident.  It would be suspicious if their reports were perfectly aligned.  But we know the whole thing is true if there's a bunch of bullshit in there that is diametrically opposed and just can't be resolved.

 

     That, or maybe their god hates them and there are no winners in his little game no matter what they think.  I do like how Paul gets quoted like he's reasonable.  You know, the whole "we've got to have a bunch of shits around so we can see who the real xians are."  The True Scotsman fallacy runs deep.

 

          mwc

 

This is true, however if ones claim is that the bible is the inspired word of God, or the literal word of God then contradictions present a particular problem.

 

However there are contradictions in the bible that are not just some people remembering the same event differently from different perspectives. Certain accounts have Jesus in two different locations at the same time! If you have two witnesses and one says your honour "the accident was on 12th Street", and the other says "I swear your honour the accident was at the harbour" (And these locations are miles apart) you are really not going to know who to believe, if anything. 

[midniterider]

1 hour ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

No, I'm telling you that BOTH could be an agent of Lucifer. Wolves in sheep's clothing let loose among our flock here to try and convince those who were true believers back into a false Christianity. It's a great play from ol Luci when you think about it.

 

(Unless it's all in gods plan... in which case it's not Luci's plan, it's gods, which means god could be blinding our eyes by using false teachers. Paul also warned about this too!)

 

@Jojo and @Christforums While this might look insincere or a halfwit joking around, consider the point being made here by both Midnite and I. Given all what we can take from the bible how do we tell the difference between who is right or wrong, or indeed if you are both deceived, or if God has given us a strong delusion? This is my problem with the various Christians who try and convince me they are right - all they ever have are their words and interpretations. None have yet come up with a solid reliable method that lets a non believer separate the sheep from the goats and the wolves. From where we stand they all look the same.

 

 

Anything to help the saints here.

 

 

Wow, both might be agents of "The Enemy". I guess that would make sense. Because when "Jesus Christ [is] the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever", like it says in Hebrews 13:8 then it would be impossible for two REAL believers to be in disagreement like Christforums and Jojo are.

 

You (two Christians) may have an understanding/interpretation/revelation/scholarly knowledge of doctrine, but none of you have any more authority than that of any other human being. And that's the way Christianity has always been. At least for me. Christianity is always some person telling another person about his imaginary friend. Why should I believe either of you or any of the nonsense in a bible? There's just no reason to.

[Christforums]

3 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

 

Wow, both might be agents of "The Enemy". I guess that would make sense. Because when "Jesus Christ [is] the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever", like it says in Hebrews 13:8 then it would be impossible for two REAL believers to be in disagreement like Christforums and Jojo are.

 

You (two Christians) may have an understanding/interpretation/revelation/scholarly knowledge of doctrine, but none of you have any more authority than that of any other human being. And that's the way Christianity has always been. At least for me. Christianity is always some person telling another person about his imaginary friend. Why should I believe either of you or any of the nonsense in a bible? There's just no reason to.

 

Christians are like Ogres and Ogres are like onions. Onions have many layers, so much to peel away.

 

Sin is what prevents us from perfectly reflecting God as image bearers. Some have much more than others but nonetheless sanctification is a lifelong endeavor. Eventually our flesh in totality will be peeled away. None of the flesh will remain and you the imaginary person thought up will stand before God.

[Christforums]

There's a difference between revelation and illumination.

 

Lemme draw a parallelism for those involved in this thread. That hick seems to think that I must win him as a Christian. He thinks I am to serve him as if when he asks if I have any Gray Poupon I must hand some over to that cracker and honor his prescence and ignore his vulgar,  ignorant, and insulting remarks. That inline breeding hill billy believes that his prejudices must be overcome by me as Christian. Amazing that when I throw a parallel in front of ignorance some act like a vampire and don't see a reflection. I have half the mind to take the redneck out in the woods and make him scream like a pig, sueeeeee.

 

Get off your high horse Redneck Professor, and while the rest of these millennials may love happy endings when someone saddles an ass and slaps it to ride off under a rainbow I don't appreciate your deliberate and persisting insults my frizzy haired browned eyed lad. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

That doesn't actually answer the question, though.  If you are both examining the same evidence, being led by the same holy spirit, all of which is being supervised by the same omniscient and omnipotent god, how could you both draw such radically different conclusions?

[disillusioned]

5 hours ago, Christforums said:

 

Get off your high horse Redneck Professor, and while the rest of these millennials may love happy endings when someone saddles an ass and slaps it to ride off under a rainbow I don't appreciate your deliberate and persisting insults my frizzy haired browned eyed lad. 

 

Now I'm confused. Is he on a horse, or an ass? There are clearly two possible readings here. Who has the one, correct, inspired interpretation of this text?

 

[wellnamed]

21 minutes ago, disillusioned said:

Who has the one, correct, inspired interpretation of this text?

 

I do, as it turns out. But I think all this talk of happy endings and slapping saddled asses belongs in the sex forum.

[midniterider]

8 hours ago, Christforums said:

 

Christians are like Ogres and Ogres are like onions. Onions have many layers, so much to peel away.

 

Sin is what prevents us from perfectly reflecting God as image bearers. Some have much more than others but nonetheless sanctification is a lifelong endeavor. Eventually our flesh in totality will be peeled away. None of the flesh will remain and you the imaginary person thought up will stand before God.

 

So then it's conceivable that over time you may discover that Reformed Christianity is actually sin and end up adopting Jojo's Christianity. That could be why Jesus put Jojo in your life here on this ex-C forum.

 

Why wouldnt Jesus step in , early on to let you know that Reformed Christianity, or Mormonism, or Catholicism or Baptist belief is incorrect? Sure, you're less than perfect image bearers but Jesus sits up there for years and years listening to people praying the wrong things 'in his name' and spouting the wrong doctrine 'in his name' and just basically ignores it? Just lets all these wrong beliefs fester and grow into entire churches, whose followers will all tell you with (seeming) authority that their flavor of Jesus is absolutely correct. Followers who are believing incorrectly in an incorrect church for their whole lives. Why would Jesus allow that?

[Lefty]

Quote

Christians are like Ogres and Ogres are like onions. Onions have many layers, so much to peel away.

 

Wait, slow down! Let me get this straight. Not only are we making an effort to tell people that god isn't real, but now we have to also tell them Ogres aren't real?

[mwc]

14 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

This is true, however if ones claim is that the bible is the inspired word of God, or the literal word of God then contradictions present a particular problem.

 

However there are contradictions in the bible that are not just some people remembering the same event differently from different perspectives. Certain accounts have Jesus in two different locations at the same time! If you have two witnesses and one says your honour "the accident was on 12th Street", and the other says "I swear your honour the accident was at the harbour" (And these locations are miles apart) you are really not going to know who to believe, if anything. 

     That's where you're wrong.  Little did you know that this sort of apparent discrepancy makes it even more true.  If everyone would place the accident at the same location then the judge would think they were in collusion.  Now the judge knows that everything is on the up and up even though the two guys literally quoted one another verbatim throughout the majority of their testimony.  And later on we'll find out that somehow 12th Street and the harbour are somehow the same location.  It will all be shown to true in the end.

 

          mwc

 

[midniterider]

I peeled off the layer of nonsense called Christianity and feel much better now.

 

[Jojo]

17 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

No, I'm telling you that BOTH could be an agent of Lucifer. Wolves in sheep's clothing let loose among our flock here to try and convince those who were true believers back into a false Christianity. It's a great play from ol Luci when you think about it.

 

(Unless it's all in gods plan... in which case it's not Luci's plan, it's gods, which means god could be blinding our eyes by using false teachers. Paul also warned about this too!)

 

@Jojo and @Christforums While this might look insincere or a halfwit joking around, consider the point being made here by both Midnite and I. Given all what we can take from the bible how do we tell the difference between who is right or wrong, or indeed if you are both deceived, or if God has given us a strong delusion? This is my problem with the various Christians who try and convince me they are right - all they ever have are their words and interpretations. None have yet come up with a solid reliable method that lets a non believer separate the sheep from the goats and the wolves. From where we stand they all look the same.

 

 

Anything to help the saints here.

The difference is that @Christforums states his own interpretation and or opinions of the Bible. 
I'm not trying to convince anyone that I'm right, you don't have to listen to me. I'm simply presenting what is strictly from the Bible without use of interpretation and opinion.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

6 minutes ago, Jojo said:

The difference is that @Christforums states his own interpretation and or opinions of the Bible. 
I'm not trying to convince anyone that I'm right, you don't have to listen to me. I'm simply presenting what is strictly from the Bible without use of interpretation and opinion.

Is it your implication that @Christforums has interpreted the bible (god's divine revelation of himself) incorrectly?  And, if so, why, in your opinion, would he hold an incorrect interpretation of the bible?

[Jojo]

Use of interpretation and opinions is what confuses many about Christianity today.
Has Christianity not been controlled and "taught" by thousands of false preachers for hundreds and hundreds of years to what it has become today therefore much of what most have learned/experienced is that false presentation of the Bible.
I don't blame any of you for how you may feel or what you've learned and experienced with what Christianity and the Bible (taught by false preachers) is and what it's become. It's not surprising that I'd be thrown into the same category because you may have "heard it all before" but have those past preachers and religions base everything strictly off the Bible without their own interpretations and opinions? We're you able to ask and receive answers from these preachers and priests regarding the Bible?

[wellnamed]

13 minutes ago, Jojo said:

I'm simply presenting what is strictly from the Bible without use of interpretation

 

By what method are you able to present what is "strictly from the Bible without use of interpretation", and how does your method differ from Christforums? What is it about his method which makes it "interpretive" while yours is not?

[LogicalFallacy]

28 minutes ago, Jojo said:

The difference is that @Christforums states his own interpretation and or opinions of the Bible. 
I'm not trying to convince anyone that I'm right, you don't have to listen to me. I'm simply presenting what is strictly from the Bible without use of interpretation and opinion.

 

And so when the bible talks about beasts and 7 headed dragons how do you present this?

 

Also what about Genesis 1-3? Presenting that without any interpretation gives you everything from light before suns and talking serpents which is contradictory to reality. Obviously some (many?) Christian theologians overcome this by interpreting it as metaphorical. So how do you approach such?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

4 hours ago, Jojo said:

Has Christianity not been controlled and "taught" by thousands of false preachers for hundreds and hundreds of years to what it has become today therefore much of what most have learned/experienced is that false presentation of the Bible.

An interesting response, which raises the question: how can you be certain that what you believe is "strictly from the bible" really is strictly what the bible was intended to say.  By your own admission, it has been open to interpretation by false teachers for hundreds of years.  Moreover, for the first 1500 years, the only people with access to the bible were the Catholic clergy, who are most certainly not to be trusted, in light of child rape and known mafia ties.  How do you know they didn't change it to suit their own purposes?  Can you really be as certain as you would like us to think you are?

[LogicalFallacy]

1 hour ago, mwc said:

     That's where you're wrong.  Little did you know that this sort of apparent discrepancy makes it even more true.  If everyone would place the accident at the same location then the judge would think they were in collusion.  Now the judge knows that everything is on the up and up even though the two guys literally quoted one another verbatim throughout the majority of their testimony.  And later on we'll find out that somehow 12th Street and the harbour are somehow the same location.  It will all be shown to true in the end.

 

          mwc

 

No, you are missing the point. While word for word testimonies could be considered collusion, major factors for an accident, such as its location should agree. What might change are the details - the car was red and going 50, or the car was scarlet and going 60.

 

As for the rest of your argument... I got nothing. If you can take obvious contradictions and turn them all into the truth then nothing I can say or present will change your mind.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

How many interpretations are there concerning Frodo and the fate of The Ring?  Everyone who reads the Trilogy agrees that, at the crucial moment, Frodo balked and Gollum bit his finger off, falling into the fires of Mt. Doom in the process.  There is no disagreement on this; because Tolkien rendered us a clear revelation of the events and characters involved.

 

How many people debate over Superman's weakness?  Few, if any.  This is because the comic books provide us with a revelation concerning the nature of Kryptonite, in such a way that it is not open to a variety of interpretations. 

 

Hell, even ol' Willie spoke good enough English that there's no dispute over why Romeo and Juliet died.  

 

These are revelations written by fallible individuals.  If the bible really was inspired by an omniscient and omnipotent god, who wished to provude us with a revelation of himself, then there should not be a variety of different interpretations.  god is one; and his people should be one.  If the same omniscient and omnipotent god is revealing himself to all of his people, then there is simply no way they should come up with radically different conclusions, based on the same evidence.  There is especially no reason there should be any disagreement over who is, and is not, the very god who is supposedly guiding them.

 

The fact that such interpretations exist, that there is no single coherent revelation that all can agree on, suggests that the bible is not the divinely inspired revelation of an omnipotent and omniscient god.  It also suggests that there is no god guiding believers; but rather their own minds trying desperately to make sense out of senselessness.

[mwc]

3 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

No, you are missing the point. While word for word testimonies could be considered collusion, major factors for an accident, such as its location should agree. What might change are the details - the car was red and going 50, or the car was scarlet and going 60.

 

As for the rest of your argument... I got nothing. If you can take obvious contradictions and turn them all into the truth then nothing I can say or present will change your mind.

     You're super confused.

 

     Let's take it one step further.  We'll say that something happened in City A and City B.  It can't be reconciled.  Sounds bad.  But only to us you see.  That's because we're a long time removed from these events.  So when these reports were made one person said City A and the other City B but as it turns out, unbeknownst to us, they were really talking about the same city.  What a twist!  And all is well.

 

     Even though the guys who wrote the synoptics essentially copied each other word for word it would seem like collusion if they didn't have a few places where it was different.  That proves how real everything is.  And even though they're different in those places...they're really not different at all!  So it's not collusion because they're different but they're actually not different so there's no contradictions.  

 

     That's the magic of the gospels.  No matter what is wrong...it's not wrong.

 

          mwc

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

11 minutes ago, mwc said:

 That's the magic of the gospels.  No matter what is wrong...it's not wrong.

I saw Spider-Man chasing Lex Luther in the Batmobile.  He was using the Elder wand to summon the power of the Dark Side.  I was eating a cheeseburger made out of chicken mcnuggets at the time.

 

It's all true, despite the glaring inconsistencies.

[Lefty]

Mcnugget cheeseburger? That's genius!