I remember

[DevilsCabanaBoy]

Of all the Christians I left behind, they are all still there. They still hold onto their beliefs, damn them to the hell they so hold onto to.

[disillusioned]

I understand the anger, but I don't think it actually benefits us to wish hell upon Christians. We used to be Christians. We all fell for it. Just goes to show that anyone can. It doesn't make one worthy of damnation, in my opinion.

[DevilsCabanaBoy]

4 hours ago, disillusioned said:

I understand the anger, but I don't think it actually benefits us to wish hell upon Christians. We used to be Christians. We all fell for it. Just goes to show that anyone can. It doesn't make one worthy of damnation, in my opinion.

Yes, how silly of me.

[disillusioned]

18 minutes ago, DevilsCabanaBoy said:

Yes, how silly of me.

 

No, not at all. 

 

It isn't silly to be angry. Anger is justified. It isn't silly to overreact. We've all done that.

 

Getting past the damage done by Christianity is not easy. Along the way,  some rash things may be said,  particularly here. That's part of the point of this place. But I think another part of the point of ExC is to try and help people like us to process the emotions that give rise to these kinds of statements. That's what I was going for.  Rationality is important,  in my view.  It's good to keep a level head. But sometimes,  it's nice to get carried away.

 

If my comments weren't/aren't helpful,  then please disregard.

[DevilsCabanaBoy]

On 4/6/2019 at 10:05 AM, disillusioned said:

 

No, not at all. 

 

It isn't silly to be angry. Anger is justified. It isn't silly to overreact. We've all done that.

 

Getting past the damage done by Christianity is not easy. Along the way,  some rash things may be said,  particularly here. That's part of the point of this place. But I think another part of the point of ExC is to try and help people like us to process the emotions that give rise to these kinds of statements. That's what I was going for.  Rationality is important,  in my view.  It's good to keep a level head. But sometimes,  it's nice to get carried away.

 

If my comments weren't/aren't helpful,  then please disregard.

Ah, thank you for your comment.

[nontheistpilgrim]

disillusioned: I agree. Being new to this forum perhaps I shouldn't sound off too loudly and will try to respond with gentleness!

As I see it, if belief in god is not harming anyone (sometimes it does but I'm not talking about that) then let them be what they want to be. It seems to me that it does no good to scream at people for what they believe - not least because that is a sure way of antagonising and creating a more entrenched attitude.

This is why I am a non-theist - for me there is no god but I see that others have their gods, created in their imaginations and real for them, and I am content about that.

I'm still struggling with clarifying my non-theism, with firming-up by non-belief, of putting flesh on the bones. I am convinced that there is no god but I need to get my thoughts into a tidy place.

I have lost Christian friends. I need atheists with whom I can dialogue. But, DevilsCabanaBoy, your attitude doesn't help me, I'm afraid.

[DevilsCabanaBoy]

5 hours ago, nontheistpilgrim said:

disillusioned: I agree. Being new to this forum perhaps I shouldn't sound off too loudly and will try to respond with gentleness!

As I see it, if belief in god is not harming anyone (sometimes it does but I'm not talking about that) then let them be what they want to be. It seems to me that it does no good to scream at people for what they believe - not least because that is a sure way of antagonising and creating a more entrenched attitude.

This is why I am a non-theist - for me there is no god but I see that others have their gods, created in their imaginations and real for them, and I am content about that.

I'm still struggling with clarifying my non-theism, with firming-up by non-belief, of putting flesh on the bones. I am convinced that there is no god but I need to get my thoughts into a tidy place.

I have lost Christian friends. I need atheists with whom I can dialogue. But, DevilsCabanaBoy, your attitude doesn't help me, I'm afraid.

When is a delusion ever safe?

[LogicalFallacy]

46 minutes ago, DevilsCabanaBoy said:

When is a delusion ever safe?

 

I have problems with the hardline position that religion is a delusion - despite some decent books with the name (The God Delusion, or The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails. IMO The Christian Delusion is a better book because its written by Ex Christians who understand what dogma they are arguing about. Dawkins hits at problems from an outside perspective but doesn't seem to understand the nuance of doctrine)

 

If a delusion is merely believing something that is false then we are all delusional because we probably all believe something that is false without us knowing it.

 

I agree with nontheistpilgrim - as long as people aren't being hurt you can believe whatever you like.

 

 

Also it's a bit ironic saying damn them to hell isn't it?... I assume you don't believe hell is real, therefore the statement is meaningless? Unless you do think there is some existence after death?

[DevilsCabanaBoy]

40 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

I have problems with the hardline position that religion is a delusion - despite some decent books with the name (The God Delusion, or The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails. IMO The Christian Delusion is a better book because its written by Ex Christians who understand what dogma they are arguing about. Dawkins hits at problems from an outside perspective but doesn't seem to understand the nuance of doctrine)

 

If a delusion is merely believing something that is false then we are all delusional because we probably all believe something that is false without us knowing it.

 

I agree with nontheistpilgrim - as long as people aren't being hurt you can believe whatever you like.

 

 

Also it's a bit ironic saying damn them to hell isn't it?... I assume you don't believe hell is real, therefore the statement is meaningless? Unless you do think there is some existence after death?

Beliefs and faith in a God are two entirety different positions. 

[LogicalFallacy]

8 minutes ago, DevilsCabanaBoy said:

Beliefs and faith in a God are two entirety different positions. 

How so?

[Joshpantera]

On 4/5/2019 at 4:59 AM, DevilsCabanaBoy said:

Of all the Christians I left behind, they are all still there. They still hold onto their beliefs, damn them to the hell they so hold onto to.

 

In a way, christians do tend to dam themselves to living a type of 'hell on earth,' if that was the point you were driving at. I'd agree with that. 

 

[DevilsCabanaBoy]

12 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

How so?

Well the true believer accepts everything on the basis of faith, and can't question what they believe. A normal person without faith of that kind can be far more critical when it comes to their beliefs. 

[DevilsCabanaBoy]

5 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

In a way, christians do tend to dam themselves to living a type of 'hell on earth,' if that was the point you were driving at. I'd agree with that. 

 

Well I was drunk when I wrote that, so yes, yes they do damn themselves to a living hell. Although this does not explain the insane position of their wretched smiles they have plastered all over their face. 

[Samuel]

On 4/7/2019 at 9:36 PM, Joshpantera said:

 

In a way, christians do tend to dam themselves to living a type of 'hell on earth,' if that was the point you were driving at. I'd agree with that. 

 

 

Not cool to damn their children and friends to the same hell they create for themselves :((

 

But yeah.

[Joshpantera]

1 hour ago, Samuel said:

 

Not cool to damn their children and friends to the same hell they create for themselves :((

 

But yeah.

 

Like the rugby fiasco going on down under. 

 

Smug, holier than thou attitudes cloaked in concern for everyone else's well being. 'No, I didn't mean that as hateful or demeaning, I meant it with love. So did the god who inspired such hell fire damnation. If you just change yourself, then it's all good. See. Love!' 

 

Meanwhile he's concocted a hell on earth for himself that could potentially flame up further with time depending on how it goes from here..... 

[LogicalFallacy]

1 hour ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Like the rugby fiasco going on down under. 

 

Smug, holier than thou attitudes cloaked in concern for everyone else's well being. 'No, I didn't mean that as hateful or demeaning, I meant it with love. So did the god who inspired such hell fire damnation. If you just change yourself, then it's all good. See. Love!' 

 

Meanwhile he's concocted a hell on earth for himself that could potentially flame up further with time depending on how it goes from here..... 

 

You referring to Israel Folau?

 

Shit things have got hot here. Some MP's are talking about needing to strengthen hate speech laws, and on the other side a church leader has said there will be "war" if "liberals, atheists, left wing radicals" try and make the bible hate speech.

 

I'm like I'm happy for you to rattle out your horrid shit as long as you are happy for me to call you a deluded fuckwit prattling out nonsense from and ancient book so filled with violence it makes Game of Thrones look tame.

 

Here's a good one for a meme

 

Israel Folau: "I'm being persecuted for my beliefs"

 

*Tells a whole bunch of people they are going to hell*

 

 

 

I do find that often calls for free speech is just a cover for wanting to be a total dick without consequences cause free speech! It's a tricky road to navigate.

[Joshpantera]

2 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

You referring to Israel Folau?

 

Yes.

 

2 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

Shit things have got hot here. Some MP's are talking about needing to strengthen hate speech laws, and on the other side a church leader has said there will be "war" if "liberals, atheists, left wing radicals" try and make the bible hate speech.

 

Seriously though, what else are those passages in the bible? They are literally filled with raging hate for the things and people mentioned. It's an angry, hate spewing god condemning people and things. And the followers of the angry hate spewing god, literally parroting the hate speech of the same said god. It's not as if the bible was never, by definition, spewing hate speech all along - for thousands of years already. And for generations on end. It's old hate, like there's old money. 

 

These guys are creating their own hell on earth. By trying to cling to this bronze age nonsense that I think should have been left in the past along time before any of us here were ever born. It has no place in modern society for some of these reasons. It's probably more immoral than it is moral. It seems like giving it 50/50 is giving too much. Hate speech. Anti-semitism. Pro-slavery. Pro-rape in certain cases. Pro-misogyny pretty consistently. With some contradictory talk of love and acceptance sprinkled in here and there.