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HoustonHorn

The "what If I'm Wrong" Phase

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I'm in what I would classify as a "what if I'm wrong" phase with Christianity right now. That is - I don't really believe it, but have a nagging feeling about picking the wrong team so to speak. Sure, I understand it's not a logical feeling, but 23 years of believing in the basics of God followed by 4 years of fairly fundamental churches nag in the back of my mind.

 

So I supposed the question that follows is how long did y'all stay in this phase. Any suggestions on speeding it up? I assume the more research I do in to the absurdities of Christianity the easier the transition will be as I shift from feeling based to fact based knowledge of religion.

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I'm in what I would classify as a "what if I'm wrong" phase with Christianity right now. That is - I don't really believe it, but have a nagging feeling about picking the wrong team so to speak. Sure, I understand it's not a logical feeling, but 23 years of believing in the basics of God followed by 4 years of fairly fundamental churches nag in the back of my mind.

 

So I supposed the question that follows is how long did y'all stay in this phase. Any suggestions on speeding it up? I assume the more research I do in to the absurdities of Christianity the easier the transition will be as I shift from feeling based to fact based knowledge of religion.

 

What if you're wrong? Fear of Hell? Is that the kind of god you would want to worship anyway? Don't worry about it, even if we are all wrong, including early Christian writers of the Bible who felt the need to punish those who didn't believe and to keep people on the straight-and-narrow path to the Church coffers, I don't think god would mind. It's his crappy planet full of people who condemn those who are different, not a Christian god who made them different who condemns.

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Google images of little children in India (hindu), the middle east (islam), and China (buddhism). Remember that all these kids....these representatives of the human future with amazing and different life perspectives and rich and varied cultures......are all bound for HELL.

 

All because they were raised according to the "wrong" book.

 

:Hmm:

 

Can any supreme being worthy of being titled such, condone and approve of something that ignorant?

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23 years of believing in the basics of God followed by 4 years of fairly fundamental churches nag in the back of my mind.

 

Exactly... you're the victim of something very like a post-hypnotic suggestion.

But just to be fair -- if you're seriously going to ask, "what if I'm wrong in denying Christ?", then in equal seriousness you must ask:

"What if I'm wrong in denying Muhammad?"

"What if I'm wrong in denying Krishna?"

"What if I'm wrong in denying Buddha?"

"What if I'm wrong in denying Zeus?"

 

I assume, however, that you've always felt very comfortable in the knowledge that all the people who pursued those beliefs were just living a fantasy. Oh, but you were different; you had a book (a 2000 year old book full of witches, giants, & talking animals) that was really true!

 

:grin: My point being, if you can deny Islam or Hinduism, it shouldn't be any harder to deny Christianity.

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My point being, if you can deny Islam or Hinduism, it shouldn't be any harder to deny Christianity.

I never said these doubts made sense :twitch: Just something to get through... And the having to deny other gods is what actually made me start doubting Christianity.

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The "What If I'm wrong" question plagued me for awhile too.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still believe in a supreme entity. But I believe that said "god" is benevolent and loves everyone. I'm still into all the afterlife, angels, and etc...

 

However, I realize that I cannot love and adore a malevolent tyrant like the one in the bible.

Read through that book some more. You basically have a guy with all the power who pitches genocidal hissy fits whenever something doesn't go his way.

 

The only reason to praise something like that is out of abject FEAR. And that is what the church does, instill fear...

 

More importantly, there have been hundreds of religions throughout the history of the world in EVERY culture...What makes ours any different?

 

I remember my Sunday school teacher telling me that, "Christianity is the truth because we have the bible to stand on..." I couldn't believe that even when I was a Christian. The Muslims have a Holy Book, Buddhists have their own texts, I'm sure the Greeks and Romans had bibles about Zeus and Hera...

 

I think when you break away from The Christian religion and open your mind to the world and history it gets easier.

 

I'm sorry to all Christians out there but I don't think Ghandi is in hell.

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Hey don't stop there.

 

If anyone who doesn't know Jesus goes to hell, then everyone who dies incapable of learning about such things, i.e. babies, the brain damaged and and the like goes too.

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i think all this stuff posted proves god dont really care what u believe cause if god did hed make sure you believed it.

and if he dont try to make sure you believe it its gods fault not yours.

the bibles just someones idea of god theirs no proof its true theirs more proofs its not true.

the feelings will go away as you start thinking about things more.

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Yeah, I know what you mean. The emotional manipulation and guilt trips that religion lays on you are insidious. It's how they keep people in the cult all their lives.

 

The way I get myself to quit worrying is this: If they are right about hell, then their deity is a diabolical tyrant who is not worth worshipping anyway, even if he does exist.

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Every once in a whle the thought still creeps in, so it takes a really long time. Such thinking does become less frequent though the longer you are out of it.

 

Taph

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Delve into the mysery of mankind. Force yourself to look at misformed babies and ask yourself what they have done, what their parents have commited for cruel crimes to deserve such thing. Realize yourself what black corners on this scary world god doesn't care one fart about.

 

Think about hell once, twice, thrice, think it through. Swallow every drop of sweat that falls from the bodies in this bottomless pitt.

 

Realize yourself all the psychological tricks that are hidden in christianity. The overwhelming feelings of conversion, of commitment, of realizing that a superpower offers himself on the altar of your sins for another or the same superpower. Tremendous scale. And that collapses into one human mind, yours, emotional, psychological, human. Do you oversee all the forces that push and pull you from here to there?

 

Investigate into detail what exactly of which prophecies did come true. What is suspect, what not?

 

Read liberal xians from all flavours. If you actually are "afraid" that xianity is attractive to you, you should be aware that it evolved into many subspecies.

 

Study pseudoscience. It helped me a lot to try to debunk Velikovsky, Von Däniken, YEC (young earth creationism) or other material.

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Whatever it is you're afraid of being wrong for sounds like a lousy reason to believe something anyway. Basing a belief on something you will get in return - be it good like heaven or bad like hell- seems like missing the point to believing it anyway. What if you're wrong? So what?!? You get to decide what you believe based on what factors are important to you for making that choice. Are you causing harm to anyone else? Is it hurting you? Then do what makes you happy.

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Google images of little children in India (hindu), the middle east (islam), and China (buddhism). Remember that all these kids....these representatives of the human future with amazing and different life perspectives and rich and varied cultures......are all bound for HELL.

 

All because they were raised according to the "wrong" book.

 

:Hmm:

 

Can any supreme being worthy of being titled such, condone and approve of something that ignorant?

WR, that is very cool -- I never thought about it all quite like that before. Even though I have never been through a "What if I'm wrong" phase, this is a very good post. It really should give someone something to ponder.... :scratch:

 

 

Houston, it sounds like your brainwashing from the xians was very effective if you're having doubts. Most brainwashed victims have doubts; however, that is a residual from the brainfuck you went through in xianity. Don't fear, just brush it off. You know that xianity has filled your head with bullshit. If it will help, read some passages from the bible. Look at it from a realistic point of view not the fairy tale it weaves that others make into a belief system - then ask yourself, "Am I sane to believe this is real?"

 

Brainwashing can fuck people up in a major way. During deprogramming... you will have your moments. It's natural. WR hit the nail on the head. If you really look at it objectively the brainwashing will lose its foothold on your brain.

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This is some scary shit... :twitch:

 

I mean -- what if Balaam's ass really did talk?!?!?! :twitch:

What if, a serpent really did trick Eve into eating a magical fruit that gave her knowledge of good and evil?!?!?

What if, Jesus really did walk on water??

What if, He really did rise up into the sky?!?!?

What if, a giant dragon really is going to wipe one third of the stars from the sky with his tail?!?!

 

 

Yep! You've plenty of thinking sittin' on your table.

 

Better get to it!! :scratch:

 

 

:HaHa:

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Personally, I believe that if any God does exist, that so long as I try to live a good life it wouldn't have me tortured for eternity. I think anything else would be unjust. And if there is a God, such a being would be the first creator, what could their be to make that God unjust? If God is all powerful, how could anything he created move him so as to give him the idea of being unjust?

 

I just don't think it's rational to believe in a God as cruel as the Christian God.

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I'm sorry to all Christians out there but I don't think Ghandi is in hell.

 

I don't, either.

 

To the OP: I dont' know what to advise. I've only be deconverted about a month and a half. I do a lot of "What if-ing". Of course, I also call myself a seeker, and acknowledge that this is probably a normal part of the searching process. It's like you said: twenty or so years of belief have a major effect on a person. I think the cure is time, to be quite honest.

 

Now, if I could only convince *myself* of the same thing...

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I went through the "what if I am wrong" phase for awhile. But eventually I thought is that really, honestly what this life is all about? The entire objective of our existence is just some cosmic guessing game and if we "guess" wrong, do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to hell for eternal torture? And "god" went to all the trouble to create the huge infinite vastness of the universe soley just to support our one tiny spec of a planet and a few microscopic humans just so they could play this game?

 

No.

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I went through the "what if I am wrong" phase for awhile. But eventually I thought is that really, honestly what this life is all about? The entire objective of our existence is just some cosmic guessing game and if we "guess" wrong, do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to hell for eternal torture? And the huge infinite vastness of the universe was created soley just to support our one tiny spec of a planet and a few insignificant humans just so they could play this game?

 

No.

 

Exactly. The entire Christian system is a setup- or so it looks to me. I played the "game" for over 23 years. I don't want to play it anymore.

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I'm in what I would classify as a "what if I'm wrong" phase with Christianity right now. That is - I don't really believe it, but have a nagging feeling about picking the wrong team so to speak. Sure, I understand it's not a logical feeling, but 23 years of believing in the basics of God followed by 4 years of fairly fundamental churches nag in the back of my mind.

 

So I supposed the question that follows is how long did y'all stay in this phase. Any suggestions on speeding it up? I assume the more research I do in to the absurdities of Christianity the easier the transition will be as I shift from feeling based to fact based knowledge of religion.

 

You kind of answered your own question there, HoustonHorn. 23 years of brainwashing doesn't just go away in a few weeks. Might take another 23 years till it's completely gone. :twitch:

 

But the good news is, you've already got the answer - research and study. The more educated about religion you become, the quicker you realize what a load it is. And the quicker you can get over that nagging doubt. :woohoo:

 

For me, it really started when I realized the OT was nothing more than folk tales - fables, passed down for generations. None of it was true - Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses - all were as real as Aladdin, Odysseus, and Paul Bunyan.

 

It was an ancient desert tribe's attempt at explaining the natural world, mixed with a lot of left-over religious notions from Egypt, Mesopotamia, etc. So how could xtianity possibly be true if the OT was made-up bullshit? :shrug:

 

Just remember, you were brainwashed - you were told to believe burning bushes can tell people how to live their lives. You were told to make your loved ones second in your heart to a 2,000 year old carpenter who lives in the clouds. They took a lot of your time, energy and money, and all you got in return was holy doubletalk and a head full of nonsense. We all went through that. Xtianity is a cult that mutated from a crazy desert religion. You might as well worship Zeus or the Manitou - they're just as real as Yaweh. :phew:

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Whatever it is you're afraid of being wrong for sounds like a lousy reason to believe something anyway. Basing a belief on something you will get in return - be it good like heaven or bad like hell- seems like missing the point to believing it anyway. What if you're wrong? So what?!? You get to decide what you believe based on what factors are important to you for making that choice. Are you causing harm to anyone else? Is it hurting you? Then do what makes you happy.

Hi Toe, yes, of course that's true. But we remain those little, easy to hurt, big eyed, hairless animals. It's virtually impossible to figure something out rationally or intellectually while your feeling says no. You, as a woman, actually knows that much better than I do. :grin:

 

It's indeed a fallacy, called Argumentum ad Consequentiam (appeal to consequences of a belief). This is a very general fallacy and actually IMHO the mother of a lot of others. Why does someone not question a tiny rule/law of his/her doctrine? That's because of the (supposed) consequences, that the whole belief system would collapse in that case.

What you mention, I see as a subspecie of Argumentum ad Consequentiam, namely the Argumentum ad Baculum (out of fear). However, opponents could very well think that you're commiting also the fallacy ad Consequentiam (namely wishful thinking). They would argue: "Although you know the consequences (hell), you think they aren't true, because you don't like them!"

 

It's your belief that your belief(s) should have no consequences. :woohoo:

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Here's how I deal with "What if I'm wrong?"

 

I prayed and asked gawd into my hart about a bajillion times through many years. I never felt nothing.

 

Also...

 

Romans says that God takes who he wants and ignores who he doesn't want.

 

So, if I'm wrong and christian Jebus exists and is going to do the Revelations thing pretty soon and I get "Left Behind", eaten by bugs and wish for death which doesn't come, eventually die by the hands of Islamist Antichrists, and then get judged and sent to an eternally tormenting lake of fire--well I did my part to avoid this, but gawd didnt' want me.

 

In other words, it doesn't matter what I believe, Fundy Jebus is going to throw me into hell whether I think he exists or doesn't. I dont belive in Jebus, but if I'm wrong, there can still be no regret for rejecting the Glorious Lord because even if i tried to be a christian and tried to belive this bull, I'd still go to hell.

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Let me clarify one point. I wouldn't consider the first part of my life brainwashing. I had a cartoon bible growing up, went to church twice - once for a Catholic wedding and once on Easter with my grandmother, and was of the opinion that there was a God but all he did was start the process (put life into the first cell) and evolution took care of the rest.

 

At 23 I started attending a church, and that's where the brainwashing began. So there's really only 4 years to deal with, but that's still a lot of BS to sort through.

 

Thank y'all for your comments. It's a situation where my mind is telling me one thing but I've got this nagging feeling in the back of my head. Fortunately, that nagging is getting quieter the more I read and write (I actually started a blog just so I had an outlet) about this process.

 

Yesterday was a beautiful day in Houston. I went outside and watched a baseball game. And I sat amazed that all this just happened by chance - the idea of God never entered into my thought process until I realized that God had not entered my thought process, KWIM :woohoo:

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So, if I'm wrong and christian Jebus exists and is going to do the Revelations thing pretty soon and I get "Left Behind", eaten by bugs and wish for death which doesn't come, eventually die by the hands of Islamist Antichrists, and then get judged and sent to an eternally tormenting lake of fire--well I did my part to avoid this, but gawd didnt' want me.

 

 

This is one major question that I often asked. In revelations God already has his selected people(particularly 144,000 male virgins), so why should anyone else bother? It is like playing lottery to see who gets the 144,000 golden tickets to heaven...

Thinking about it is just absurd now.

 

Many of us were already damned from the get go. No wonder it is hard to live a fulfilled life in Christianity. You give up so much to try and die and goto heaven...sad

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Here's how I deal with "What if I'm wrong?"

 

I prayed and asked gawd into my hart about a bajillion times through many years. I never felt nothing.

 

Also...

 

Romans says that God takes who he wants and ignores who he doesn't want.

 

So, if I'm wrong and christian Jebus exists and is going to do the Revelations thing pretty soon and I get "Left Behind", eaten by bugs and wish for death which doesn't come, eventually die by the hands of Islamist Antichrists, and then get judged and sent to an eternally tormenting lake of fire--well I did my part to avoid this, but gawd didnt' want me.

 

In other words, it doesn't matter what I believe, Fundy Jebus is going to throw me into hell whether I think he exists or doesn't. I dont belive in Jebus, but if I'm wrong, there can still be no regret for rejecting the Glorious Lord because even if i tried to be a christian and tried to belive this bull, I'd still go to hell.

Hee hee, great post. And I needed the laugh...

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<snip>

 

It's your belief that your belief(s) should have no consequences. :woohoo:

 

Well, I don't think that. I can see that any belief has consequences. Hell, just look at how certain people treat you for mentioning you believe a certain way that is contrary to their own views (religion, race, sexuality, linux or windows). Ideally, yes, I don't think they should have consequences in the way that they do. But they should have them. Beliefs shape who you are now and who you will become, and that is a very real consequence. One that I think should be there.

 

And sure, I know it's hard to make a choice when you're dealing with conflicting emotions. Change is uncomfortable for many people. A different set of beliefs isn't what has been "normal" for you for however long your previous beliefs were in place. It isn't comfortable. But any sort of change can do that- from deciding you no longer want to be in an unhealthy relationship, changing careers, moving cities, changing your diet, or even changing your tv watching schedule. I think changing beliefs fits in there. Some people find it more difficult because there is more of an emotional charge and attachment (and sometimes a shift in perspective) for them towards their belief system than their tv watching schedule.

 

My point was more towards if you're going to base a belief on something of an emotional nature, do what makes you feel good now, not what makes you feel bad now or what might possibly make you feel better later because of some vague reward you might get. Unless that's what makes you happy now. But those questions of "what if" mean that that isn't the case. So there is something in there that will make you happy. If keeping the same beliefs doesn't, then changing them will. Change doesn't always make people happy until it becomes habit, so there's going to be some overlap in that discomfort. That is normal. Hell, it's healthy.

 

Yesterday was a beautiful day in Houston. I went outside and watched a baseball game. And I sat amazed that all this just happened by chance - the idea of God never entered into my thought process until I realized that God had not entered my thought process, KWIM :woohoo:

 

 

And that's cool too. It's a different approach for you, so it's actually good that you're noticing a difference. You aren't ignoring that you're changing.

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