Opinions on near death experiences

[Rickswordfish]

 

Ive done lots of research and i cant decide wether or not ndes are satanic deceptions

[MOHO]

They are not.

There is no Satan.

 

Anything else I can assist you with?

[Rickswordfish]

Im an agnostic that means i havent closed the door on the possibility of satan existing

[sdelsolray]

41 minutes ago, Rickswordfish said:

 

Ive done lots of research and i cant decide wether or not ndes are satanic deceptions

 

Has your research into whether NDEs are "satanic deceptions" included any scientific research about how the human brain functions and behaves when it lacks oxygen?

 

[florduh]

I see. Now I'm wondering if epilepsy isn't actually demon possession. 

 

Abrahamic theology really fucks with people.

[Rickswordfish]

28 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

 

Has your research into whether NDEs are "satanic deceptions" included any scientific research about how the human brain functions and behaves when it lacks oxygen?

 

Yes and ndes are more than lack of oxygen to the brain

[disillusioned]

There is some strange information surrounding ndes. But to go from that to satanic deceptions seems a bit of a stretch...

[Karna]

I read somewhere that when you are experiencing a NDE, your breathing is inconsistent and this leads to less supply of oxygen to your system. This can cause effects similar to hallucinations. Couple this with the fear instilled in you by your religious upbringing and you thinking about your god in that sense will give a heady mix. So a Jeebus 'lover' will have visions of Jeebus (I bet these visions would be a long haired, bearded, caucasian Jeebus even if Jeebus wasnt probably like this if he existed at all).

A hindu might similarly have a vision of a hindu god, etc. A buddhist might see visions of Buddha. 

 

Basically it is simply your mind (or whatever is left of it) during your NDE that causes you to see these visions based on your thoughts while you are dying.

 

I may be wrong. But this makes sense to me unless proven otherwise.

[JohnnyWishbone]

1 hour ago, Rickswordfish said:

 

Ive done lots of research and i cant decide wether or not ndes are satanic deceptions

I don't get the question.

[sdelsolray]

33 minutes ago, Rickswordfish said:

Yes and ndes are more than lack of oxygen to the brain

What does lack of oxygen (or higher levels of carbon dioxide) in the brain cause, according to your research?

 

What phenomena in NDEs are demonstrated not to be caused by lack of oxygen (or by higher levels of carbon dioxide), according to your research?

[LogicalFallacy]

2 hours ago, Rickswordfish said:

 

Ive done lots of research and i cant decide wether or not ndes are satanic deceptions

 

The question presupposes the existence of Satan and a claim that this satan can deceive.

 

You might want to start with establishing the existence of Satan as a real entity, then establishing that it has the ability to deceive in the manner which you are asking about, before asking if NDE's could be a result of said satanic deceptions.

 

Since my research leads me to conclude that Satan is entirely a human construct I can rule out any satanic connection with NDE's unless evidence shows otherwise.

 

@midniterider We were discussing NDE's in another thread. Got any take on this?

[JohnnyWishbone]

I heard this a long while ago, that astronauts experience the NDE at times when their in that graviton thing.

 

(You know the device that spins around at breakneck speed)

 

 

 

 

[midniterider]

reply to LF (if I try to quote you I get a fail)

 

Neither the great deceiver Satan nor the Jesus have ever shown up to chat about this stuff, so I dont think NDEs are caused by nor related to them. I suspect these characters are fiction, like Batman. If they ARE real but have no intention to interact with us then  they may as well not exist. I dont know why Satan would deceive me by telling me that heaven is  real and creating a fake experience unless he was on the Jesus team.

 

 

 

I like Karna's white Jesus question. That would be interesting to find out how many white people who've had NDEs saw white Jesus during the event. But couldn't Jesus be white if he wanted to? (Checkmate , atheists! haha)

 

I generally like to think that this waking experience is reality because it seems to be my most common experience. But where is this experience, experienced? Someone will say 'the brain', I might say, 'in consciousness'. Is my brain/consciousness interpreting an external reality from the 5 senses? Or is my brain/consciousness 'creating' a reality by itself? I dont know. Dreams and NDEs and OBEs and hallucinations simulate the observation of an external reality without the use of...external reality. I'm not claiming to be a brain in a vat; where would the vat be located? I just like to question the notion of reality.

 

NDEs are interesting as to 'what' they  may be but also 'why' they occur. Why would oxygen starved brains tend to produce this somewhat common NDE scenario? A bright light, a tunnel, your choice of religious leader...relatives greeting you, etc. Why not something else?

 

https://www.thoughtco.com/common-elements-near-death-experiences-2594675 (Used for reference , not for ironclad validity)

 

I think some NDEs also have occurred while someone was without any measured brain activity. I've heard the assertion of 'residual brain electricity' as a cause, but not sure if there is any evidence for that. One problem though is that neither the doctor nor the patient knows exactly when the NDE occurred vs when their brain activity temporarily ceased.

 

My take on it is "I dont really know", NDEs may just be some kind of dream. A rather common kind of dream though occurring during a particular life event, making it suspicious to me.

[webmdave]

24 minutes ago, midniterider said:

reply to LF (if I try to quote you I get a fail)

 

Hmm. Working on my end. Odd.

[midniterider]

1 hour ago, webmdave said:

 

Hmm. Working on my end. Odd.

 

testing - cleared cookies, rebooted, logged out

 

quoting fine now, sir...you're a web engineer extraordinaire.  thanks.

[webmdave]

Please let me know if the error reappears. 

 

Best, 

[florduh]

I can't help but wonder how a brain that is not functioning at all can retain a memory of what it perceived while not functioning. There are two other possibilities I can think of. One, there is no measurable brain activity, yet there is still some neural activity below the threshold of measuring technology. Two, the memory of a weird experience could actually take place before brain "death" or after being revived; who could pinpoint the exact time? The assumption that NDE occurs while the brain is actually "dead" and not immediately before or after seems a rather biased guess.

[sdelsolray]

10 minutes ago, florduh said:

I can't help but wonder how a brain that is not functioning at all can retain a memory of what it perceived while not functioning. There are two other possibilities I can think of. One, there is no measurable brain activity, yet there is still some neural activity below the threshold of measuring technology. Two, the memory of a weird experience could actually take place before brain "death" or after being revived; who could pinpoint the exact time? The assumption that NDE occurs while the brain is actually "dead" and not immediately before or after seems a rather biased guess.

 

 

All who experience NDEs are never dead, nor do they die.  They remain alive throughout the experience and afterwards.  Medical definitions and tests for death have changed quite a bit in the past few decades.

[LogicalFallacy]

1 hour ago, florduh said:

I can't help but wonder how a brain that is not functioning at all can retain a memory of what it perceived while not functioning. There are two other possibilities I can think of. One, there is no measurable brain activity, yet there is still some neural activity below the threshold of measuring technology. Two, the memory of a weird experience could actually take place before brain "death" or after being revived; who could pinpoint the exact time? The assumption that NDE occurs while the brain is actually "dead" and not immediately before or after seems a rather biased guess.

 

The clue is in the name. NEAR death experience. I.e. not dead yet!

[florduh]

47 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

The clue is in the name. NEAR death experience. I.e. not dead yet!

Yeah, I and others often say that near death is not death. If you are able to tell the tale after the experience, you were not dead. Simple. I was just fleshing out the idea a bit because that important distinction is lost on many people.

[Joshpantera]

On 5/16/2019 at 3:22 PM, Rickswordfish said:

 

Ive done lots of research and i cant decide wether or not ndes are satanic deceptions

 

Don't take it too hard, Rick. But they are right. If you're serious about this question then you should probably take serious what has been said about the number of assumptions you're starting out with. In the first place, all of the available evidence points to satan as an evolving mythological character in stories. You can literally research that by itself. It's very black and white, cut and dry. And come to this solid conclusion from researching it thoroughly. So the claim of any satanic deception at all must first overcome this initial hurtle. And it can hardly be factored in. 

 

Then there's the issue of near death experiences set aside from the mythological character who clearly isn't real. 

 

These are experienced by people who may be close to, or near death, but not dead. Again, many good points were raised. People do seem to have experiences. Those experiences are often very similar to one another. But they usually have in common things that already exist in people's minds, like thinking the light is jesus and so on. If jesus is something in someone's mind, then it may be part of the experience. I have Moody's "Life after Life" book on my shelf. And I've done at least some reading on this too. The other issue is that some people don't tie it to jesus or some particular mythology. Instead they see it as something beyond all of the mythology. But still have the experience of a light and all of that. 

 

Doesn't it seem like the simple explanation is going to break down to neural biology and issues of human consciousness? 

 

How much more contrived and complicated is it to start trying to tie this to a mythological character in an old religious book of stories?