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Just now, LuthAMF said:

Neither is it an accident or random happenstance.

It's very random down here, but not so much in life itself.

 

Do you really think this universe is life itself LuthAMF? That you yourself have life now? Not yet you don't

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23 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

"Being raised in a Christian home no more makes one Christian than being born in a garage makes one a car."

Thats just silly. Religion is taught, being a car is not. That is the basic idea, no one comes to religion without being taught what it is, what it means and how you are meant to act. For example African tribesmen will never come to Christianity without missionaries teaching them. If Christianity was not taught for a generation it would cease to exist. So yes Christian families teach Christianity to their kids, while muslim families teach islam. This results in the regional split in religions that we see. God isn't converting muslims and Allah isn't converting Christians. If you don't teach any religion then people will by default end up atheist or agnostic. 

 

I see indoctrination as a form of teaching, where you tell someone facts about reality and convince them that it is true by showing it is the accepted answer to the group. When your parents, siblings, family, teachers and all friends and adults all say X is true, then we are wired to accept that as fact. No evidence required. If everyone tells you Zenu is the all powerful alien overlord and we need to devote our lives to stopping him, you will accept that. It then takes a reality wrenching change to be able to dislodge that idea. If someone tells you that you are wrong, what they are actually saying is your parents, family, teachers, friends and everyone you respect is wrong. That is a massive hurdle to overcome. 

 

Atheist indoctrination would be teaching your kids why religion is wrong and convincing them of that prior to them understanding reality. Some families will absolutely do that, but most go the other track and simply do not discuss religion at all. With no forced perspective you aren't Indoctrinating any idea. So yes atheists can but most don't. Like most questions its a non-binary answer. 

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51 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

All parents are guilty of either omitting information or over-emphasing other

This is quite different from indoctrination.  To equate the two is intellectually dishonest. 

 

52 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

A true atheist who has been devoid of any religious influence is hardly equipped to fairly teach Christian principles in order to allow his child to "make his own decision"

Yet here we have a "true christian" presuming himself equipped to teach atheists about atheism.

 

54 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

It is an outright disparaging presumption to say the Christian utilizes "tactics" as you stereotypically contrast them against alleged "virtues". 

Yes, it is disparaging; that was the intent.  And "tactics" is an entirely appropriate term for describing the methods of indoctrination.  "Virtues", however, is your term, not mine, for the difference in approach between critical thinkers and the religious.  It's good that you recognize them as virtues, in theory at least; perhaps someday you can recognize them in practice as well.

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9 hours ago, LuthAMF said:

That's fine and understood. But when you say "We could be talking buddhist, hindu, muslim or christian." you forgot to include atheism.

 

I was only listening religions, not lack thereof. 

 

But can a lack thereof god belief be a type of brainwashing too? I guess it depends on the angle. It shouldn't be, but it could be. In which case it would be every bit as wrong to brainwash children with god hatred, belief god doesn't exist,  and other positive anti-god "beliefs" wouldn't you agree? As in wrong to brainwashing them with anything? Instead of just allowing them to do their own thinking and make their own decisions? 

 

BTW, true atheism has nothing to do with positive beliefs, at all. It means, "not god belief." It's the natural state that we are all born into. Before theistic proponents come along and influence positive belief where none previously existed. We've had long discussions about this before.......

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3 hours ago, LuthAMF said:

Neither is it an accident or random happenstance.

 

And you have the evidence to prove this bold claim? 

 

Or do you concede that the above is complete speculation on your part, and that you don't even have any possible way of knowing whether or not the universe and reality is an accident, random happenstance, or otherwise? 

 

 

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Did you notice the voice of both actor's? The young boys voice was typically resistant to the idea he was offending Jehovah. The mother's voice seemed greatly patronizing & hateful at her own son's flight of fancy.

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4 hours ago, LuthAMF said:

 It's quite irrelevant that atheists "do not consider themselves guilty". All parents are guilty of either omitting information or over-emphasing other. A true atheist who has been devoid of any religious influence is hardly equipped to fairly teach Christian principles in order to allow his child to "make his own decision" any more than the illiterate can instruct his child in principles of proper grammar.

 

My parents did not express any particular religious sentiments when I was growing up, and I remember my mother going to church only twice -- once for my brother's christening, and once for an Easter service, some years apart.  Neither did they speak of non-belief.  I had the rare privilege of being on neutral ground.

 

I learned to read when I was very young, about 2 1/2.  I read the Bible when I was about 7.  It obviously did not make me a believer; it would be more accurate to say that it guaranteed that I would never be able to wholeheartedly embrace any religion, despite several attempts over the years.

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3 hours ago, Wertbag said:
4 hours ago, LuthAMF said:

Being raised in a Christian home no more makes one Christian than being born in a garage makes one a car."

Thats just silly. Religion is taught, being a car is not.

I should have said being born in a Christian home does not make one Christian. It would have saved you from explaining all that.

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9 minutes ago, Astreja said:

 

My parents did not express any particular religious sentiments when I was growing up, and I remember my mother going to church only twice -- once for my brother's christening, and once for an Easter service, some years apart.  Neither did they speak of non-belief.  I had the rare privilege of being on neutral ground.

 

I learned to read when I was very young, about 2 1/2.  I read the Bible when I was about 7.  It obviously did not make me a believer; it would be more accurate to say that it guaranteed that I would never be able to wholeheartedly embrace any religion, despite several attempts over the years.

Ok. I don't believe in "neutral" ground but what would you now see you were lacking? Anything?

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1 minute ago, LuthAMF said:

Ok. I don't believe in "neutral" ground but what would you now see you were lacking? Anything?

 

No, I don't think I lacked anything in particular.  I did go to Sunday school at age eight for a couple of months because one of my friends was going, but got bored and dropped out.  As with my reading of the Bible it all came across as stories from an alien culture, with no particular truth value and very little relevance to my life in 1960s Canada.

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5 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

Ok. I don't believe in "neutral" ground but what would you now see you were lacking? Anything?

I agree there is no neutral ground in this country. American society is by default Christian. The religion is everywhere you look, except in our Constitution. Individuals may or may not push it hard, but it is always there gurgling in the background. That is why people have recognized that if you were born in America you are likely to become a Christian but if you were born in Iraq you would likely be a Muslim, in Japan a Buddhist, in India a Hindu.

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38 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

I should have said being born in a Christian home does not make one Christian. It would have saved you from explaining all that.

There's only one thing in the grand universe that will save you, you. That's because the universe gave all of us the key's to our own liberation.

 

"If your arm's are not big enough to hug life, then hug a tree instead"

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On 5/17/2019 at 12:42 AM, JohnnyWishbone said:

7896.jpg.e296c16c4bb068a1fcb2a74b55f9d0fd.jpg

This is a photo I downloaded from a Christian's profile online. (Basically it's this Christian's mascot for God) Look at this picture for a while, imagine what that fundy is doing to this little girl's mind.

 

Will this fucking religious madness ever end?

 

Here, this will make you want to throw up. Once upon a time, When  I belonged to the church, I thought this was 'cute'........:woopsie:

 

 

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Just now, Margee said:

 

Here, this will make you want to throw up. Once upon a time, When  I belonged to the church, I thought this was 'cute'........She's just copying the adults....:woopsie:

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Margee said:

 

Here, this will make you want to throw up. Once upon a time, When  I belonged to the church, I thought this was 'cute'........:woopsie:

 

 

I get this bizarre thought that she looks like a grandma praising Jebus.

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Redneck says,
"Yet here we have a "true christian" presuming himself equipped to teach atheists about atheism."

Please support this claim by producing a direct quote from me in which I presume this.  Otherwise, yet another unfounded assertion.
Sound familiar "Prof"? Your own words, dude.

"Prof" also says,
""Virtues", however, is your term, not mine, for the difference in approach between critical thinkers and the religious.  It's good that you recognize them as virtues, in theory at least; perhaps someday you can recognize them in practice as well."

You devious, slithering snake.
I said "alleged virtues". I also said it's disparaging PRESUMPTION.  Conveniently ignored those words, though, didn't you?

"All parents are guilty of either omitting information or over-emphasing other"

But Prof says,
"This is quite different from indoctrination.  To equate the two is intellectually dishonest."

Only in your demented world.
 

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1 hour ago, JohnnyWishbone said:

That's because the universe gave all of us the key's to our own liberation.

Redneck Professor would call this an unfounded assertion if I were the one to have said it.

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26 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

Redneck Professor would call this an unfounded assertion if I were the one to have said it.

Have we not found a myriad of cure's & solutions to many problems we've had for thousands of generations? So yeah, I'd say that the universe has a built in key for solving all our woes.

 

Or we can take Yahwank at his word and use chickens blood to cure leprosy.

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58 minutes ago, JohnnyWishbone said:

I get this bizarre thought that she looks like a grandma praising Jebus.

Curious case of Benjamin Button

 

On another note, another fundie, another tither, secured. Another childhood wasted.

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2 hours ago, florduh said:

I agree there is no neutral ground in this country. American society is by default Christian. The religion is everywhere you look, except in our Constitution. Individuals may or may not push it hard, but it is always there gurgling in the background. That is why people have recognized that if you were born in America you are likely to become a Christian but if you were born in Iraq you would likely be a Muslim, in Japan a Buddhist, in India a Hindu.

Look, I know how much you love your US of A, but fuck it! It's only going to get worse, you know. So, get your butts down here in Australia, you won't live in such tension & fear as you do there.

 

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8 minutes ago, Karna said:

Curious case of Benjamin Button

 

On another note, another fundie, another tither, secured. Another childhood wasted.

No no no, no no no & no.

 

She still has freewill and choice no matter these religious people do to her, or him, or them, or us.

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"You devious, slithering snake." - LuthAMF

 

That . . .is fucking hilarious. . . .You GO Harry Potter!

Sorry . . . I'm a li'l bit drunk.

 

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7 minutes ago, freshstart said:

"You devious, slithering snake." - LuthAMF

 

That . . .is fucking hilarious. . . .You GO Harry Potter!

Sorry . . . I'm a li'l bit drunk.

 

Me too!

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