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adelena4luv

why do we have to be forced to believe in god or we will go to hell?

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3 minutes ago, adelena4luv said:

I actually doubt the christian belief at first but i kept asking older christians about my doubts. They also told me that some times god do not want us to know some stuff as we dont need to know everything and he have a reason of doing that. I just find so much loop holes .I eventually eccepted and i thought it was the best decision in my life but it is probably the worst. I just feel gullible and i dont want other christians to be like me. Ive put in so much thoughts and emotions but it was all a lie. I really want to help my friends who are still believing this but im afraid that they wont listen. I shouldve listen to my parents advice and not just have blind "faith". Btw,how did you manage to get out of the hurt ?

Learning I guess, then it all became sunny side up.

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59 minutes ago, adelena4luv said:

I actually doubt the christian belief at first but i kept asking older christians about my doubts. They also told me that some times god do not want us to know some stuff as we dont need to know everything and he have a reason of doing that. I just find so much loop holes .I eventually eccepted and i thought it was the best decision in my life but it is probably the worst. I just feel gullible and i dont want other christians to be like me. Ive put in so much thoughts and emotions but it was all a lie. I really want to help my friends who are still believing this but im afraid that they wont listen. I shouldve listen to my parents advice and not just have blind "faith". Btw,how did you manage to get out of the hurt ?

     Sorry about all this.  I've been out for a little over ten years now and, as you've seen, I don't take it very seriously at all anymore.  When it was all new though it was all very confusing and painful.  Looking back it was pretty much like dealing with a sudden death though I didn't know it at the time.  As you've pointed out I also had to deal with all the issues surrounding what I felt was a huge betrayal by the entire religion, everyone involved (many of whom were close relatives) and the idea that I had allowed myself to be deceived for so many decades.  I dealt with it by lashing out but that was a poor decision on my part.  I also educated myself on history (among other topics because the church versions were so poor and biased).  This is what really helped me out along with time.  The people here also helped for just allowing me to come around and me a general nuisance.

 

          mwc

 

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3 hours ago, mwc said:

     Sorry about all this.  I've been out for a little over ten years now and, as you've seen, I don't take it very seriously at all anymore.  When it was all new though it was all very confusing and painful.  Looking back it was pretty much like dealing with a sudden death though I didn't know it at the time.  As you've pointed out I also had to deal with all the issues surrounding what I felt was a huge betrayal by the entire religion, everyone involved (many of whom were close relatives) and the idea that I had allowed myself to be deceived for so many decades.  I dealt with it by lashing out but that was a poor decision on my part.  I also educated myself on history (among other topics because the church versions were so poor and biased).  This is what really helped me out along with time.  The people here also helped for just allowing me to come around and me a general nuisance.

 

          mwc

 

Omg im sorry for what you've been through...but im very glad that you got out of it even though it was a very hard and confusing process. I felt like dying at first because I found no meaning in living if god dont exist anymore. Do you deal with stuff like this too?

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19 hours ago, adelena4luv said:

Omg im sorry for what you've been through...but im very glad that you got out of it even though it was a very hard and confusing process. I felt like dying at first because I found no meaning in living if god dont exist anymore. Do you deal with stuff like this too?

     Fortunately I do not.  It's hard to explain the process but it didn't take me too long to realize that it was all basically a false story and just stop believing.  What I didn't realize until much later was everything that I was feeling after that, even though I had dealt with the beliefs rationally and they truly had no hold over me, was what I described as the "mourning process" (and it was more anger than depression).  Once I had realized that god, and any meaning found therein, was really just empty and void it wasn't too hard to find meaning in pretty much anything I did since it was actually real so any meaning, however small or seemingly insignificant, was clearly far more meaningful than the empty nothing I had been finding meaning in all that time.   So most of this sort of thing happened quickly for me, at matter of months maybe, but the anger took a very long time to get over (I was literally enraged for about a year due to this and other things in my life that I don't care to look back on) and it took quite a few more years to get it under some control (so I didn't lash out if someone touched some "religious" nerve).

 

          mwc

 

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On 5/22/2019 at 3:49 PM, mwc said:

     Fortunately I do not.  It's hard to explain the process but it didn't take me too long to realize that it was all basically a false story and just stop believing.  What I didn't realize until much later was everything that I was feeling after that, even though I had dealt with the beliefs rationally and they truly had no hold over me, was what I described as the "mourning process" (and it was more anger than depression).  Once I had realized that god, and any meaning found therein, was really just empty and void it wasn't too hard to find meaning in pretty much anything I did since it was actually real so any meaning, however small or seemingly insignificant, was clearly far more meaningful than the empty nothing I had been finding meaning in all that time.   So most of this sort of thing happened quickly for me, at matter of months maybe, but the anger took a very long time to get over (I was literally enraged for about a year due to this and other things in my life that I don't care to look back on) and it took quite a few more years to get it under some control (so I didn't lash out if someone touched some "religious" nerve).

 

          mwc

 

Im glad that you are better now

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I just moved this to ''General Christian Theological Issues'' because it is a wonderful topic for all ex-christians. Carry on....

 

And Welcome to Ex-c adelena4luv! So happy to have you here with us! 

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On 5/22/2019 at 8:49 AM, mwc said:

     Fortunately I do not.  It's hard to explain the process but it didn't take me too long to realize that it was all basically a false story and just stop believing.  What I didn't realize until much later was everything that I was feeling after that, even though I had dealt with the beliefs rationally and they truly had no hold over me, was what I described as the "mourning process" (and it was more anger than depression).  Once I had realized that god, and any meaning found therein, was really just empty and void it wasn't too hard to find meaning in pretty much anything I did since it was actually real so any meaning, however small or seemingly insignificant, was clearly far more meaningful than the empty nothing I had been finding meaning in all that time.   So most of this sort of thing happened quickly for me, at matter of months maybe, but the anger took a very long time to get over (I was literally enraged for about a year due to this and other things in my life that I don't care to look back on) and it took quite a few more years to get it under some control (so I didn't lash out if someone touched some "religious" nerve).

 

          mwc

 

Yes, that's my experience: although it is 12 plus years since I gave up on god I still have discomfort around - not the loss of faith but rather the anger I feel when I go to church (I play the organ for them so feel obliged - well, I can't play and be absent, can I, at least not absent in body and it's very difficult not to hear what's going on at the front. The giving up of faith was surprisingly easy and joyful. It's getting to the point, I suspect, when they will have to find another organist but I know that's not going to be easy for them. BTW the anger I feel is mostly about the stuff that people are expected to believe.

 

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On 5/19/2019 at 3:01 PM, adelena4luv said:

Why dont he just create those people whom he know wont go to hell and save the pain of those that wont choose him?

 

It’s like breeding puppies for the sole purpose of torturing them. 

 

Congratulations for asking yourself these important questions. Perhaps you can gently ask your friends too?

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            Sometimes, it seems that people can rationalize , as in find some reasons - unproven ones, usually, why something happens.  Anything. The basic idea revolves around the issue of God is ultimately  unknowable, and reveals to humans only what is necessary for them.  Of course, the problem with this line of reasoning, is, as I said, the difficulty of proving it, and it sounding ok. We can all agree that, we as a species, have limited perceptions of matter - there are soundwaves out of our ability to hear, for example, and, even with that lack of ability, we survive. So this can pe apprehended just by looking around. Sometimes it looks like religion is a projection of individual and collective perceptions, coded into narative and arts. Narratives and art that encode psychological knowledge are valuable, of course, as tools of transmission, it depends how one regards them. 

           I am still trying to figure out things, on many plains. For example, it is fascinating for me how I and others can become trapped by flawed reasoning. We can, and this is my intuition only, kind of believe anything. For example, suppose I tell you the god Vulcan lives in volcanoes and mares erruptions., You could say, that is ludicrous! On the basis of what? Well, prior indoctrination or education, or some kind of intuition. I do not know HOW things really are, but I marvel at the possibilities of the human mind. This reality, be it what it could, seems many times just awe inspiring.

          Of course, my problem, my main one is that which you said, eternal hell. Actually, it seems, there is a tradition, a long one, of Christian Universalism. Search the scholar Illaria Ramelli for more info.

 

I am tired, so probably not the best answer, but i did what I could.

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The Bible has an out for people who are not believers to still be saved: 

 

Romans 2:6-16 (NIV)

6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

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Just as I have no concept of a god, so I reject hell, heaven, judgement/reward and the Bible. Just not an issue. Death is the end. It's what I have come to believe as my truth.

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