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LogicalFallacy

Proof God doesn't answer prayer!

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That's a cute example but nothing compared to the medical study performed several years ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

 

"Prayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found."

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"This city is afraid of me. I've seen it's true face.The streets are extended gutters, and the gutters are full of blood, and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!'...and I'll look down, and whisper, 'no.' "

 

If we go by what is actually written in the Bible, the Old Testament in particular, it's easy to argue that it isn't that God doesn't answer prayers, but rather that God is just Rorchach from Watchmen.

 

 

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On 6/10/2019 at 5:55 AM, TrueFreedom said:

That's a cute example but nothing compared to the medical study performed several years ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

 

"Prayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found."

 

It would be interesting to do an experiment using friends and family members of patients. I wonder what percentage of the patients being prayed for in this article were religious, non-religious, or even anti-religious. 

 

I would hope that double blind protocols were used in this experiment, but it appears not:  "Half the patients who received the prayers were told that they were being prayed for; half were told that they might or might not receive prayers." So all of the test group were advised about being prayed for? Hope that didnt skew the results. I wonder if the medical staff knew about the experiment. Surgery staff? The article doesn't really say. Maybe I'll find the study.

 

edit:

Here'a study i think I'll read today. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802370/

 

It looks as if prayer or meditation does help certain conditions, mostly mental or emotional problems. I don't think God is answering the prayers though. I think we cause our own healing, in this case. Does anyone know how spontaneous remission or placebo effect actually work?

 

 

 

 

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On 6/16/2019 at 6:09 AM, midniterider said:

It looks as if prayer or meditation does help certain conditions, mostly mental or emotional problems. I don't think God is answering the prayers though. I think we cause our own healing, in this case. Does anyone know how spontaneous remission or placebo effect actually work?

 

Interesting point. I think there is research that indicates a person's frame of mind can affect body healing. Pessimistic or despondent people fare worse than optimistic and positive people. Thus prayer might work for a religious person because they feel happier and think God will heal them. However in one study people who knew they were being prayed for fared worse... a stage fight effect?

 

In my personal experience one would immediately feel better after being prayed for and some people even reported being healed immediately. However once out of the influence of the church members and back home reality would kick in and the condition would come back... to be prayed away the next week. 

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2 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Interesting point. I think there is research that indicates a person's frame of mind can affect body healing. Pessimistic or despondent people fare worse than optimistic and positive people. Thus prayer might work for a religious person because they feel happier and think God will heal them. However in one study people who knew they were being prayed for fared worse... a stage fight effect?

 

In my personal experience one would immediately feel better after being prayed for and some people even reported being healed immediately. However once out of the influence of the church members and back home reality would kick in and the condition would come back... to be prayed away the next week. 

 

I agree that one's frame of mind can affect body healing. Attitude and belief are important. I doubt Jesus is involved. 

 

It also would seem that when you jack yourself up on dopamine in a church worship situation the euphoria probably hides some symptoms temporarily. 

 

I do fully understand that if prayer actually worked for everything that we wanted it to work for then we would not need modern medicine. I know it won't regrow limbs and apparently causes heart patients to do worse (haha), but there may be some uses for it. Still , I doubt Jesus is involved. 

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     It is important that the person knows that they're being prayed for.  We all know that god is a triune god.  So when someone prays to just god the connection to the person in need may, or may not, happen.  It's all best effort after all.  But when the person is informed the connection is more likely to happen since both god and the spirit within that person are now aware of the prayer and the proper link is more likely to be established so the spell can take place.

 

          mwc

 

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