Justus Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 If Benjamin Franklin knocked on your door today and asked for a place to lay his head, would you give him a place to stay for a couple of days or would you send him away? Of course this is a gotcha question since it reveals those who deny believing that all things are possible are actually the believers, so they dismiss the question the same way those who claim to be believers won't answer any question that reveal they really don't believe so they label the person asking the question as stupid so they don't have to answer the question. But it isn't the question that gotcha, it is your answer. With that said do you blame anyone who wouldn't let a friend or relative that is down on their luck to stay with them a couple days or weeks, to help them get back on their feet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted June 26, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2019 Depends a lot on the friend or relative in question, the situation they're in, and the history. Not a simple yes or no. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted June 26, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2019 I'm more inclined to be critical of those who let serial parasites take advantage of them. I'm happy to step up and help anyone in need, but some people take advantage. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Why would I let Ben Franklin stay with me? I don't know this guy. I don't let randos stay with me. He can hit the bricks or should I say go fly a kite? mwc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted June 26, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, mwc said: should I say go fly a kite? Exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 8 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Depends a lot on the friend or relative in question, the situation they're in, and the history. Not a simple yes or no. I agree. And it is a short trip from having a job, car and home to being homeless and unemployed, and it takes a lot longer to get back to that place from one fell from too, especially the older the person is. 8 hours ago, florduh said: I'm more inclined to be critical of those who let serial parasites take advantage of them. I'm happy to step up and help anyone in need, but some people take advantage. Where I live the authorities are giving legal residency to anyone who you allowed to be in your home for for 12 hours, meaning that the homeowner has to evict these visitors which can take weeks and around $600 in court costs, not to mention the value of the property of the homeowner which disappears during the interim. I don't worry too much about it, which I probably should but it isn't the dead naked corpses of homeowners being found on the outskirts of town. 9 hours ago, mwc said: Why would I let Ben Franklin stay with me? I don't know, why would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 On 6/26/2019 at 8:40 AM, Justus said: If Benjamin Franklin knocked on your door today and asked for a place to lay his head, would you give him a place to stay for a couple of days or would you send him away? Dude's been dead for a while. Call me crazy, but I generally try to keep my house corpse-free. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 2 hours ago, disillusioned said: Dude's been dead for a while. Call me crazy, but I generally try to keep my house corpse-free. A corpse-free home is a Canadian pipe-dream! mwc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 On 6/27/2019 at 10:21 AM, disillusioned said: Dude's been dead for a while. Call me crazy, but I generally try to keep my house corpse-free. Then you wouldn't have to worry about him knocking.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Justus said: Then you wouldn't have to worry about him knocking.... You brought it up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 On 6/26/2019 at 5:40 AM, Justus said: If Benjamin Franklin knocked on your door today and asked for a place to lay his head, would you give him a place to stay for a couple of days or would you send him away? Of course this is a gotcha question since it reveals those who deny believing that all things are possible are actually the believers, so they dismiss the question the same way those who claim to be believers won't answer any question that reveal they really don't believe so they label the person asking the question as stupid so they don't have to answer the question. But it isn't the question that gotcha, it is your answer. With that said do you blame anyone who wouldn't let a friend or relative that is down on their luck to stay with them a couple days or weeks, to help them get back on their feet? Are all things possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted July 3, 2019 Author Share Posted July 3, 2019 On 7/1/2019 at 11:14 AM, midniterider said: Are all things possible? Only until one learns the principle which reveals something is impossible. If something wasn't impossible for God then all things wouldn't be possible with God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christforums Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 28 minutes ago, Justus said: Only until one learns the principle which reveals something is impossible. If something wasn't impossible for God then all things wouldn't be possible with God. Right, if God cannot lie then not all things are possible for God. Pentecostals love to suggest such Theologians which point this out are putting God in a box. Such things as lying don't require more power or strength than truth. God's very characteristics and attributes aren't limitations but they convey or express His Holiness and omnipotence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 3, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted July 3, 2019 Whew! I guess it's good that god can, and does, lie, then. Otherwise we'd all be up shit creek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 22 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Whew! I guess it's good that god can, and does, lie, then. Otherwise we'd all be up shit creek. Well, if you have your Bible with you with you find yourself up that creek, you will at least have a paddle but I digress, the Holy Ghost lies like a calculator. If you enter 5 x 8 and the calculator solution is 13, then by faith you would enter 13 / 8 and if the calculator represents the answer is 5 then you would multiply 5 x 8 again paying close attention to the function input you will find that it is written that by two immutable things it is impossible for God to lie. It is kinda like if A = B then B should equal A, if it doesn't then you might be needing that paddle.... 22 hours ago, Christforums said: Right, if God cannot lie then not all things are possible for God. The lesson to be learned is that free will that allows us to do all things doesn't mean we should do all things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted July 5, 2019 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2019 5 hours ago, Justus said: The lesson to be learned is that free will that allows us to do all things doesn't mean we should do all things. This bring us to the question - do we have free will, or merely the illusion of free will? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 10 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said: his bring us to the question - do we have free will, or merely the illusion of free will? I would say that depends upon one ‘s perception of the power they have to act at their own discretion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 9 hours ago, Justus said: I would say that depends upon one ‘s perception of the power they have to act at their own discretion. This is ducking the question. "Do we have free will?" is not a question that can be answered by saying "it depends how you see it". Either how I see it is my choice, or it isn't. If I can choose how I see it, then I do have free will, since in choosing how I see it I would be exercising free will. On the other hand, if I can't, then I may or may not have free will (ie, I may have free will whether I like it or not, or I just may just simply not have it). So, can we choose how to perceive our power to act at our own discretion? This is just another way of putting LF's question, which is to say, what you offered was a non-answer. Please try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted July 6, 2019 Author Share Posted July 6, 2019 5 hours ago, disillusioned said: This is ducking the question. Not really since the question isn't specific. How much does 'that' plus 1 equal? Without knowing the value of 'that' then the answer would depend upon what value you have for 'that'. Is he is talking about the religious doctrine of free will or is he referring to the political doctrine of self-determination. If he is referring to his own free will then he is the only who can answer his question. In such, that answer will depend upon the power he perceives he has to act at his own discretion. If the question is whether a person has absolute free will, then imo the answer is no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted July 6, 2019 Moderator Share Posted July 6, 2019 Generally the way I've heard it phrased is that free will is defined in a way that if you could reverse time and make all your decisions again could you make different decisions - I.e.have free will. Or are your decisions determined by factors outside our control? I'm not talking about religious free will. Anyone who thinks they have free will while pre supposing an all powerful all knowing God that has a set plan simply hasn't studied the mutually exclusive nature of the claims being made. I agree we don't have absolute libertarian free will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted July 6, 2019 Author Share Posted July 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: Generally the way I've heard it phrased is that free will is defined in a way that if you could reverse time and make all your decisions again could you make different decisions - I.e.have free will. Or are your decisions determined by factors outside our control? Oh ok. I don't think that time can be reversed since time is merely a perception given to man using the repetitive process of the physical world to measure the days of his physical existence. But that is merely my opinion, yet in reality a person doesn't need to go back in time to make all their decisions again since the repetitive process of nature is going bring up the necessity to make decisions on a daily as well as seasonal basis. I don't think that our decision is determined by factors outside our control, but rather our choices can affected by factors outside our control which could result in our decision being one not originally contemplated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 6, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted July 6, 2019 Free will? The Bible contradicts itself on this subject. In fact it's not even well defined as a concept. But the fact is we have always exercised our "free will" even though that often involves choosing a lesser evil. We can choose to obey mommy or go ahead and hit our sister and face the mommy consequence. Free will! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted July 10, 2019 Author Share Posted July 10, 2019 On 7/6/2019 at 12:57 PM, florduh said: Free will? The Bible contradicts itself on this subject. In fact it's not even well defined as a concept. But the fact is we have always exercised our "free will" even though that often involves choosing a lesser evil. We can choose to obey mommy or go ahead and hit our sister and face the mommy consequence. Free will! For every action there is a equal and opposite reaction.???? For whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Justus said: For every action there is a equal and opposite reaction.???? For whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap???? Unless the slate is wiped clean by Jesus, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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