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Castiel233

Was Lincoln right to force the states to stay

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Given that the Confederacy wanted to break away, was it right that Lincoln used the army to force then to stay in the union .

 

 

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"Right" has no place in politics. Might makes right, always did and always will.

 

Was it right for England to keep her colonies, including us, by force? Is it right that America, since breaking away from England, is doing the same things England did and does?

 

But to your original question, I think the southern slaves thought it was right.

 

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15 hours ago, Castiel233 said:

Given that the Confederacy wanted to break away, was it right that Lincoln used the army to force then to stay in the union .

 

 

 

"The Confederacy" was an illegal enterprise. Statehood was granted to each new state by the original 13 states with the legal agreement that they would exist as singular political bodies subservient to the supremacy clause of the Constitution. The moment that a "Confederacy" was formed, they had broken the law and they no longer had any rights. You arrest people who break the law, or else the law is rendered meaningless. 

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I am not sure, but I think it was the beginning of these "Executive powers" that we see today.  Slavery was wrong, and in this case it proved to be a right decision, but in the future what will executive powers be used for?

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On 7/20/2019 at 6:47 PM, Blood said:

 

"The Confederacy" was an illegal enterprise. Statehood was granted to each new state by the original 13 states with the legal agreement that they would exist as singular political bodies subservient to the supremacy clause of the Constitution. The moment that a "Confederacy" was formed, they had broken the law and they no longer had any rights. You arrest people who break the law, or else the law is rendered meaningless. 

 

Devil's advocate: The United States was also an illegal enterprise. The only real legal difference is, they won.

 

Politics isn't about right and wrong. It's about what we want. If we have power, we can make things how we want. If not, we live with what other people want. So it has always been.

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On 7/19/2019 at 11:49 PM, Castiel233 said:

Given that the Confederacy wanted to break away, was it right that Lincoln used the army to force then to stay in the union .

 

     The South wanted to break away because they were afraid that the election of Lincoln would prevent the spread of slavery to new territories in the west (it was a part of the Republican platform and even in the South he did reasonably well during the election so it wasn't "the people" that were afraid of these politics).  So when he won South Carolina immediately seceded.  A year later others followed.  It was during this year that the federal Fort Sumter was taken by South Carolina.  Without going into all the details this is essentially what started the war.  It wasn't Lincoln who struck any first blows but he didn't let it go either.  The people were extremely loyal to their states and followed along with the cause (pretty much on either side).  People who disagreed went to war against their own families.

 

     So he basically did what he was supposed to do as the President.  In that sense it was "right."  Doesn't make it any less tragic.  I suppose we might say his motivations were better than those on the opposing side who simply wanted to preserve slavery (among other "traditions") and were willing to go to whatever extremes in order to do so but he was far from noble and if you ask native Americans you'll get a different opinion of him (and other presidents).

 

          mwc

 

 

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On 8/21/2019 at 6:19 PM, disillusioned said:

 

Devil's advocate: The United States was also an illegal enterprise. The only real legal difference is, they won.

 

Politics isn't about right and wrong. It's about what we want. If we have power, we can make things how we want. If not, we live with what other people want. So it has always been.

 

The colonists' rebellion was illegal. But they never agreed to be militarily occupied after the French and Indian War concluded. Those kinds of things tend to stir resentment toward authority. 

Resentment translates into political action, and political action sometimes cannot be resolved through peaceful means. 

 

 

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