How do you become an atheist without reading the bible and truely understanding scripture? Does life's trauma's play a part in why it's so hard to have faith?

[Georgia]

Dear Atheists,

 

I am intrigued to know how you can become an atheist when lots have not even read the bible? How can you hate a God you haven't bothered to get to know? I see lots of posts talking about suffering and god letting people die!!! If you read scripture you'd have an understanding, but it seems post just believe what they've been told by other non believers or even worse people who claim to be Christian but have no idea what it really means to be faith..

[nontheistpilgrim]

After over 50 years as a minister I realised that the Bible is a mixture of good stories and utter rubbish.

Please don't patronise us. Most of us are not foolish as you seem to suggest. Most of us don't hate anyone and certainly not a god which doesn't exist. (Just to wind you up (!) some of us believe that there are as many gods as there people because people create their own gods from their imaginations - and that is not a put-down.)

Perhaps if you read the Bible with an open mind you will become a non-theist?

[Georgia]

There are many many people that have never read any part of any scripture and easily claim there is no god. My question is aimed at those who don't have 50 years in ministry and then unfortunately taken a different route in life. My question is for those who have never tried to know the Lord and still can dismiss it. The final part of my question is it life's trauma because I am genuinely interested. 

 

An atheist with knowledge of scripture I can understand but not those who have never even tried.

 

I am extremely opened minded and have considered all possibilities. 

 

After 50 years of ministry, what is your conclusion of the meaning and purpose of life? How did we get here? I am genuinely interested in your thoughts 

[nontheistpilgrim]

I really must learn not to feed the trolls.

[Georgia]

I'm not offended by your message but thank you for being so cautious! 

 

Yes other religions are made up, your totally correct but that's the work of the Satan not people- i know I sound like a conspiracy theorist but the confusion is real and purposeful

[TheRedneckProfessor]

@Georgia, do you dismiss Allah? How long were you a Buddhist before you discounted the Four Noble Truths as folly?  Did you continue praying to the other Hindu gods, even after your prayers to Vishnu went unanswered?

 

If your answer is that you have never studied these other religions, then that answers your question, too.

[Georgia]

Thank you for your very on point questions. 

 

I do reject Allah, I never became a Buddhist but the teachings are beautiful as are those of Hinduism. 

 

I was actually discussing this today, all those religions are so very convincing and I can understand why millions would chose to follow them all. But Christianity is more than just a book of stories, they are historical events which can be seen in non Christian texts. Also the claim that Jesus made is unlike any other deity we know. Jesus claimed to be God in human form, he is like no other religious leader. Jesus is also accepted by Islam, they understand the validity of the Torah- old testament as the word of God, but unfortunately, like the Jews do not accept him as the Messiah. Jesus was a real being, he lived as we did. 

I am not coming from a place of uneducted faith, I have looked in other places.

 

 

 

@TheRedneckProfessor

[florduh]

2 minutes ago, Georgia said:

I do reject Allah

So..... you don't know who the Allah character is? "Allah" is the Arabic word for "God" and is used by Muslims and Christians alike.

[florduh]

2 hours ago, Georgia said:

Yes other religions are made up

You have no idea how funny that sounds coming from anybody who believes a made up religion, and they're all made up.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

@Georgia, you have made a series of positive claims.  Please support your claims with evidence, other than the bible.  If the bible is filled with historical facts, you should be able to find evidence in the archaeological record.  

[Georgia]

How else shall I put it? 

 

The bible is the true word of God and the others are not? 

 

I reject Allah who represents Islam, I reject Jehova who represents a "Christian" God. I reject Catholicism,  I am non denominational and believe in scripture. I have not been brought up in a religious environment, it found me, not the other way round. I studied evolution for years- it's a lie by the way! I

 

 

[TABA]

4 hours ago, Georgia said:

Dear Atheists,

 

I am intrigued to know how you can become an atheist when lots have not even read the bible? How can you hate a God you haven't bothered to get to know? I see lots of posts talking about suffering and god letting people die!!! If you read scripture you'd have an understanding, but it seems post just believe what they've been told by other non believers or even worse people who claim to be Christian but have no idea what it really means to be faith..

 

 

If you think this place is populated by atheists who have not read, studied and examined the Bible, think again!  We are Ex-Christians. We’ve talked the talk, walked the walk, and concluded our beliefs were unfounded.  We know the Bible pretty damn well.  We’ve also done more than our share of looking into history, archaeology, science, the evolution of monotheism and the concepts of Heaven, Hell and Satan, as well as the development of scripture and the slow emergence of Christian orthodoxy over the course of 300+ years, as well as its ‘reformation’ a millennium later.  There are people out there who don’t believe in any god and who’ve never thought about it or examined the claims.  Those people are not us. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 hour ago, Georgia said:

The bible is the true word of God 

This is a good example of a positive claim which requires evidence.

[florduh]

33 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

This is a good example of a positive claim which requires evidence.

Just so you know what you're dealing with here, she claimed the Earth is flat. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

8 minutes ago, florduh said:

Just so you know what you're dealing with here, she claimed the Earth is flat. 

I know.  I'm trying to break her in easy.

[sdelsolray]

5 hours ago, Georgia said:

Dear Atheists,

 

I am intrigued to know how you can become an atheist when lots have not even read the bible?

...

Many atheists and Christians alike, as well many who belong to other theistic religions, have not read the Bible, at least not completely.  The evidence reveals many people tend to form beliefs around what they are taught.  In addition, some folks develop certain cognitive skills as they reach adulthood, including rational/critical thinking, evidence-based analysis, skepticism, curiosity, etc.  Many do not develop these cognitive skills very well at all.  The evidence indictates Abrahamic religious indoctrination stifles development of these cognitive skills, often severely.

Many Biblical claims are well known even to those who have not read the Bible.  Many of these claims defy the laws of physics, chemistry and biology.  For nearly two millennia, believers have put forth apologetics in an attempt to defend these superstitious and magical claims, by using logical fallacies, misrepresentations and outright lies.

 

5 hours ago, Georgia said:

...

How can you hate a God you haven't bothered to get to know?

...

Your question contains two unsupported premises, rending it a loaded question.

In any event, the Bible contains stories concerning the Abrahamic God's behavior and statements.  Richard Dawkins sums up the conduct of this particular God in the OT as follows:

 

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all of fiction:  jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infancidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously manevolent bully."

 

Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion, Chapter 2.

 

Stories in the OT actually support Dawkin's statement.

 

5 hours ago, Georgia said:

...

If you read scripture you'd have an understanding....

Yes, and I already conclude mine is a quite different understanding than yours.

 

5 hours ago, Georgia said:

...

but it seems post just believe what they've been told by other non believers or even worse people who claim to be Christian but have no idea what it really means to be faith..

 

I strongly suspect the religious indoctrination you were infused with, as well as the related and ongoing peer pressure to maintain that indoctrination, has caused you to believe you "know" you are correct and anyone who disagrees with your religious beliefs is wrong.

[midniterider]

7 hours ago, Georgia said:

But Christianity is more than just a book of stories, they are historical events which can be seen in non Christian texts.

 

Like what? 

 

 

Quote

 

Also the claim that Jesus made is unlike any other deity we know. Jesus claimed to be God in human form, he is like no other religious leader.

 

I dont think being 'different' proves something's validity. You're grasping for straws here. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is more unlike other deities than Jesus. I suppose you're gonna say he's fake. What about Cthulu? Not your garden variety deity either. 

 

Quote

Jesus was a real being, he lived as we did. 

 

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is with us now, in our boiling pots. Saying something is real doesn't make it real. 

 

Quote

I am not coming from a place of uneducted faith, I have looked in other places.

 

 

Educated or not, faith is faith. Educated faith doesn't bring any evidence of something being real. 

[midniterider]

10 hours ago, Georgia said:

Dear Atheists,

 

I am intrigued to know how you can become an atheist when lots have not even read the bible? How can you hate a God you haven't bothered to get to know? I see lots of posts talking about suffering and god letting people die!!! If you read scripture you'd have an understanding, but it seems post just believe what they've been told by other non believers or even worse people who claim to be Christian but have no idea what it really means to be faith..

 

How can you hate the Flying Spaghetti Monster without even getting to know him?

 

You do understand that with enough effort you can believe in just about anything. Just hang around the right people and read your book and keep telling yourself that it's true. 

 

 

[Justus]

6 hours ago, TABA said:

. We’ve talked the talk, walked the walk, and concluded our beliefs were unfounded.  

 

So you believed it was true and now you believe it isn't true, so if you concluded your beliefs were unfounded then, what makes you believe that your beliefs are no longer unfounded?  

 

I am not trying to be insulting but just asking.  As an Ex-Christian who knows the Bible then I am sure you are familiar with the scripture that makes the reference that he who comes to God must first believe he is.  I personally think those who claim to have come to God actually believe that they are God because they think whatever they believe is the word of God, but I digress.  

 

Yet ask them if they could find a coin that is hidden somewhere on earth and they say that is impossible, yet they found an invisible God that is not of this world.  And they can't seem to draw the parallel.  But the point being, believing something is true doesn't mean it is true anymore than believing something isn't true means it is untrue.  

[Justus]

Excellent thread Georgia 

[Astreja]

10 hours ago, Georgia said:

How else shall I put it? 

 

The bible is the true word of God and the others are not? 

 

Nope.  No evidence for any gods; therefore, IMO there has never been a "true word of God" in the entire history of this planet.

 

I read the Bible over 50 years ago, without any interference -- just inquisitive me and your alleged deity.  It never resonated with me, never appeared to be anything more than fables from a long-dead culture that bore little to no resemblance to my reality in Canada in the 1960s.  If your god was trying to get a message through to me, the only part that got through was Matthew 25:35-40, and that sentiment is not exclusive to Christianity.

[LogicalFallacy]

14 hours ago, Georgia said:

Dear Atheists,

 

I am intrigued to know how you can become an atheist when lots have not even read the bible? How can you hate a God you haven't bothered to get to know? I see lots of posts talking about suffering and god letting people die!!! If you read scripture you'd have an understanding, but it seems post just believe what they've been told by other non believers or even worse people who claim to be Christian but have no idea what it really means to be faith..

 

Reading the bible, or any holy book, is not a pre requisite to being an atheist. The only thing required is is that you do not believe in any God or gods.

 

You also might want to get to know your subject matter rather than posting such ignorant posts. I'll address each point in isolation as everything in your OP is wrong. Like badly wrong.

 

How can you hate a God you haven't bothered to get to know?

 

I don't hate God any more than I hate Sauron or Voldemort. They are all fictional characters with severe character flaws - although Sauron had a huge war hammer so there's that. You are essentially asking why I hate something I don't beleive exists which is rather silly don't you agree? Why you do hate my invisible pink unicorn (May the great horn thrust thee) or the flying spaghetti monster (May his noodle appendage touch thee)?

 

I see lots of posts talking about suffering and god letting people die!!!

 

You may be misunderstanding those posts. We here don't literally think God lets people die because we don't think God exists - pretty hard for a non existent being to let people die don't you think? The crux of this subject matter derives from the problem of evil, first put forward by Epicurus some 2 millennia ago. If you define God as all knowing, all powerful, and all good then you have a problem:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. 
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. 
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? 
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

Sam Harris expounds on this thought: 

 

"Nine million children die every year before they reach the age of 5. Picture an asian tsunami of the sort we saw in 2004 that killed a quarter of a million people. One of those, every ten days. Killing children only under 5. Twenty four thousand a day, a thousand an hour, seventeen or so a minute. Before I can get to the end of this sentence, some few children will have died in terror and agony. Think of the parents of those children. Think of the fact that most of these men and women believe in god and are praying at this moment for their children to be spared, and their prayers will not be answered. Any god who will allow children by the millions to suffer and die in this way and their parents to grieve in this way either can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn't care to, or he doesn’t exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary. Take your pick, and choose wisely.

 

If you read scripture you'd have an understanding, but it seems post just believe what they've been told by other non believers or even worse people who claim to be Christian but have no idea what it really means to be faith.

 

Most of us have read the scriptures more than most Christians and that is why we are no longer believers. You seem to be hung up on people posting stories of emotional hurt, and it happens, and it's bad, and religions have much to answer for. However the vast majority of people who stop believing do so not because of emotional hurt, or abuse, but because they read the bible and realized it's total and utter bullshit.

 

Faith is believing things for which you have no good reason to believe them. There is nothing you couldn't believe if you use faith as a foundation. Faith is pretending to know what you don't know. It's worthless in the real world.

[mwc]

14 hours ago, Georgia said:

I am intrigued to know how you can become an atheist when lots have not even read the bible? How can you hate a God you haven't bothered to get to know?

     Are you saying that atheists shouldn't be atheists even if they haven't read the bible or know god?  How does that work exactly?  That people default to belief in the one true xian god but somehow people decide to opt-out?

 

     Or are you trying to say that atheists never read the bible so they never even tried?  That they're avoiding being properly educated.  Or they know god, your god, is real and true but have just decided to hate it for some reason you can't understand?

 

     How about the atheist that went to bible school, church and believed for over thirty years?  Who has read the bible and got to "know" your god (inasmuch as you can know what turns out to be a figment of your own imagination)?  How about that atheist?

 

14 hours ago, Georgia said:

I see lots of posts talking about suffering and god letting people die!!! If you read scripture you'd have an understanding, but it seems post just believe what they've been told by other non believers or even worse people who claim to be Christian but have no idea what it really means to be faith..

     No one actually gives two shits about what this god can or cannot do outside of what amounts to philosophical arguments.  It's like arguing over what happens in a book or movie (in this case a book).  Can the superhero really do those things?  Do their powers really work that way?  Is this at all plausible?  What about his nemesis?  The setting.  The plot.  In the context of the story it's worth discussing.  In the real world?  Not so much.  The bible is just one of these fictional stories.  Sadly, xians believe it's reality.  People coming fresh out of the cult need to be reassured that it's really a fiction.  Life is so much better once you realize you're not living inside an ancient set of stories.

 

          mwc

 

[nontheistpilgrim]

Georgia

I see that you have not visited here for some hours. However, if you feel able and willing, can you tell us a bit about your church connection, please? Although I no longer believe, I still am very interested in comparative religion and what makes us 'tick' My own background includes FIEC, Brethren, 'House Church Movement' (e.g. New Frontiers etc) and I don't think I can see you in any of those places. I am not asking you to reveal where you live, just what sort of congregation you worship with. If you don't mind.

[LogicalFallacy]

37 minutes ago, nontheistpilgrim said:

Georgia

I see that you have not visited here for some hours. However, if you feel able and willing, can you tell us a bit about your church connection, please? Although I no longer believe, I still am very interested in comparative religion and what makes us 'tick' My own background includes FIEC, Brethren, 'House Church Movement' (e.g. New Frontiers etc) and I don't think I can see you in any of those places. I am not asking you to reveal where you live, just what sort of congregation you worship with. If you don't mind.

 

An excellent question. Certainly Georgia's beliefs don't appear to be mainstream. 

 

A brief breakdown of doctrine would also be interesting. For one it would save us making points against xyz doctrine only to find out she does not hold to xyz doctrine.